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On Topic Discussion 2019 Coronavirus (COVID-19/SARS-CoV-2)

Re: 2019 Coronavirus (COVID-19)

What is happening in Italy may happen throughout Europe and North America. Unlike China, we just can't create 1000 bed hospitals in a few weeks.

So the intensive care system will collapse... Just like is happening in Italy.

And the moral choices will have to be made. Who will be saved. Who will be allowed to die.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/a...1A110HRlLNfFplseCS1ngrWZ9L3glwyc4N5Pj3IYdf9Ts

artificially ventilation is not a new technology or something.
They should be able to produce quickly and cheaply and the patience can stay home instead of coming to the hospital.
 
Re: 2019 Coronavirus (COVID-19)

This is one of the most detailed and comprehensive presentations I've seen to date.

Coronavirus act today or people will die

As a politician, community leader or business leader, you have the power and the responsibility to prevent this.

You might have fears today: What if I overreact? Will people laugh at me? Will they be angry at me? Will I look stupid? Won’t it be better to wait for others to take steps first? Will I hurt the economy too much?

But in 2–4 weeks, when the entire world is in lockdown, when the few precious days of social distancing you will have enabled will have saved lives, people won’t criticize you anymore: They will thank you for making the right decision.
 
Re: 2019 Coronavirus (COVID-19)

Governor Cuomo has deployed the National Guard to attempt to contain an outbreak of COVID-19 in Westchester County, NY. Overnight an additional 31 cases of coronavirus were diagnosed in the New York state.

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New York state has a total of 173 cases. The total number of cases in Westchester County is 108. New York City has 37 cases.

In related news, 2 school bus drivers for Nassau County have tested positive for the virus.

my sister lives right outside that circle---her kids school has been closed since last week. Also I heard only from one source that this gives you diarrhea which could explain the toilet paper but most people are describing fever cough and fluid in lungs. NY state and the governor have started making inmates in the prisons make---hand sanitizer--- and is distributing large amounts of it.
 
Re: 2019 Coronavirus (COVID-19)

artificially ventilation is not a new technology or something.
They should be able to produce quickly and cheaply and the patience can stay home instead of coming to the hospital.

One of the reasons that US hospitals only have about 75,000 ventilators to cover over 500,000 acute hospital beds is that a ventilator costs between $25,000 to $40,000.

A patient one a ventilator adds between $400 to $600 per day on top of the daily room rate of an inpatient stay.

Most US hospitals accept credit cards as prepayment to cover the "quickly and cheaply" costs that you would incur.
 
Re: 2019 Coronavirus (COVID-19)

^ Cost to produce or to buy and sell?
 
Re: 2019 Coronavirus (COVID-19)

^ Cost to produce or to buy and sell?

If you're asking about the cost of a ventilator, the manufacturing cost is immaterial to the question of availability. In the end, the hospitals have to either buy the ventilator at retail cost or they have to lease them from a company that bought them at retail cost. A large hospital might have enough ventilators to cover their critical care beds (about 15% of US inpatient beds are "critical care"). Smaller community hospitals won't have excess capacity of ventilators.

Ventilators aren't just bellows like the ones that are TV shows. They're computers that have different modes of ventilation that respond to different needs of the patient.

Most of the manufacturers are multi-national conglomerates like Philips (Netherlands) or Medtronic (Ireland). Because the machines are likely made from parts that come from China, Korea or Japan, they're more than likely assembled in countries where labor is cheap. It's unlikely that makers could "ramp up" and make large numbers of ventilators because of supply chain issues and factory capacity. There's also not a lot of money available to buy ventilators that may not be utilized once the pandemic is over.

If a country has a pandemic that results in large numbers of patient with respiratory failure, there's no "quick and cheap" solution. Bottom line is that services and equipment will be rationed and some people will perish for lack of resources.
 
Re: Who's afraid of Coronavirus?

Here's the latest from Ground Zero:

Effective immediately, the Seattle School District is shut down for the next two weeks - all classes suspended.


National News:

The President orders a travel ban!

 
Re: Who's afraid of Coronavirus?

You might want to read this article. This is one of the most detailed and comprehensive presentations I've seen to date.

https://medium.com/@tomaspueyo/coronavirus-act-today-or-people-will-die-f4d3d9cd99ca


great article for everyone to read!--that is what I understood just because you have a few cases doesn't tell the whole story---

and without test kits we are screwed --all we have is social distancing and washing hands*%%*!!
 
Re: 2019 Coronavirus (COVID-19)

I'd like to know what they mean when they say that, " five cases have been 'resolved'". What do they mean by 'resolved'?
 
Re: 2019 Coronavirus (COVID-19)

If you're asking about the cost of a ventilator, the manufacturing cost is immaterial to the question of availability. In the end, the hospitals have to either buy the ventilator at retail cost or they have to lease them from a company that bought them at retail cost. A large hospital might have enough ventilators to cover their critical care beds (about 15% of US inpatient beds are "critical care"). Smaller community hospitals won't have excess capacity of ventilators.

Ventilators aren't just bellows like the ones that are TV shows. They're computers that have different modes of ventilation that respond to different needs of the patient.

Most of the manufacturers are multi-national conglomerates like Philips (Netherlands) or Medtronic (Ireland). Because the machines are likely made from parts that come from China, Korea or Japan, they're more than likely assembled in countries where labor is cheap. It's unlikely that makers could "ramp up" and make large numbers of ventilators because of supply chain issues and factory capacity. There's also not a lot of money available to buy ventilators that may not be utilized once the pandemic is over.

If a country has a pandemic that results in large numbers of patient with respiratory failure, there's no "quick and cheap" solution. Bottom line is that services and equipment will be rationed and some people will perish for lack of resources.

So it's very costly to produce, and you can't rely on national or local industries with integrated production systems, because it is not considered strategical either. It is not like the air warfare in 1940.
 
Re: 2019 Coronavirus (COVID-19)

I don't think its as big a deal as the media is playing it. Are you worried?

Seems like only yesterday....and feels like months ago.
 
Re: 2019 Coronavirus (COVID-19)

If you're asking about the cost of a ventilator, the manufacturing cost is immaterial to the question of availability. In the end, the hospitals have to either buy the ventilator at retail cost or they have to lease them from a company that bought them at retail cost. A large hospital might have enough ventilators to cover their critical care beds (about 15% of US inpatient beds are "critical care"). Smaller community hospitals won't have excess capacity of ventilators.

Ventilators aren't just bellows like the ones that are TV shows. They're computers that have different modes of ventilation that respond to different needs of the patient.

Most of the manufacturers are multi-national conglomerates like Philips (Netherlands) or Medtronic (Ireland). Because the machines are likely made from parts that come from China, Korea or Japan, they're more than likely assembled in countries where labor is cheap. It's unlikely that makers could "ramp up" and make large numbers of ventilators because of supply chain issues and factory capacity. There's also not a lot of money available to buy ventilators that may not be utilized once the pandemic is over.

If a country has a pandemic that results in large numbers of patient with respiratory failure, there's no "quick and cheap" solution. Bottom line is that services and equipment will be rationed and some people will perish for lack of resources.

This is the thing that most people are missing. It is not only that negative pressure critical care beds are in short supply to deal with a virus like this....it is also the equipment, the back-up for the equipment and all the other supplies needed to protect the caregivers and support team.

And people may also not understand that patients on ventilators require a higher degree of direct care. It isn't like you just slam a ventilator on them and then let them lie there.

The worst part is that in the US....a lot of people won't have the financial resources or the insurance to afford critical care.
 
Re: 2019 Coronavirus (COVID-19)

^ That's it. Relatively sophisticated and expensive (I said "relatively"... relative to financial benefit goals) technology and treatment for critical conditions, that is reserved and packaged as exclusive, high-end healthcare, not a treatment for the masses.
 
Re: 2019 Coronavirus (COVID-19)

I'd like to know what they mean when they say that, " five cases have been 'resolved'". What do they mean by 'resolved'?
It's a good question.

Every case of a serious disease can result in two outcomes - death or recovery. Once we know whether the patient lived or died, we consider the case "resolved".

One of the measures that look at in epidemiology is the case fatality rate (CFR). Because patients with COVID-19 can take days or weeks to resolve, the formula for final CFR only looks at resolved cases. Until the case is resolved, it is not included in the CFR.


So it's very costly to produce, and you can't rely on national or local industries with integrated production systems, because it is not considered strategical either. It is not like the air warfare in 1940.
If you're referencing the wartime industrial policies, it's an apt comparison.

During the war, there were three factors to overcome -
  1. labor shortage, because the men were sent to military, not to factories
  2. capacity/skill, because a factory that produced canned goods wouldn't have the skills or equipment to produce tanks or jeeps without major investment and reconfiguration
  3. raw materials, because producing a large number of any deliverable requires first producing the component parts

In the case of ventilators, it's going to be raw materials that is the obstacle. Because a ventilator is a computer with hundreds of parts and most of those parts are not made in the country where the ventilator is assembled, it could take weeks or months to increase the production of ventilators.

In past wartime economies, we weren't as dependent upon global supply chains and the products produced weren't as sophisticated as they are today. Producing a bomb in an American factory during WWII didn't require computer components like it would today. Similarly, producing a ventilator requires importation of multiple parts, integration of a computer parts with the mechanical parts and skills of workers who know how to put these parts together and test them.



...And people may also not understand that patients on ventilators require a higher degree of direct care. It isn't like you just slam a ventilator on them and then let them lie there.
Which brings up another thing that is scaring the beejesuz out of public health planners: a shortage of first responders and hospital workers.

There's already a shortage of nurses and respiratory therapists. A respiratory pandemic is going to hit workers at the bedside- especially nurses and respiratory therapists. Most nurses in the US have never programmed or operated a ventilator (and in some states, their license doesn't permit them to do so). The US isn't China, where the government ordered healthcare workers to continue working even though hundreds of them got sick or died during the epidemic.

Let's hope that the US doesn't have the experience of Italy or China but looking at the numbers that I've been summarizing daily, the US might have already missed the chance to get the epidemic under control. The reason that public health officials looked so grim yesterday is that they have been comparing the growth rate in cases across countries and the case multiplication rate is very consistent across the countries with large epidemics of COVID-19.

25785300-8095485-image-a-1_1583848731910.jpg
 
Re: 2019 Coronavirus (COVID-19)

12-Mar-2020:

COVID-19 stats
Cases reported: 127,750 (up from 121,061 yesterday)
Deaths: 4,717 (up from 4,368 yesterday

Cases reported in the US - 1,323 cases (up from 1,039 yesterday), 38 deaths

Over 100 countries are reporting cases.

Italy has overtaken Iran and South Korea in the #2 spot for number of cases.

Global coronavirus cases in major countries:
  • Italy - 12,462 cases (up from 10,149 yesterday) - 827 deaths.
  • Iran - 10,075 cases (last reported 9,000 cases) - 429 deaths
  • South Korea - 7,869 cases (up from 7,755 cases yesterday) - 66 deaths
  • France - 2,284 cases (up from 1,784 cases yesterday), 48 deaths
  • Spain - 2,277 (up from 2,026 cases yesterday) - 55 deaths
  • Germany - 2,078 cases (up from 1,622 cases yesterday), 3 deaths
  • UK - 459 cases (up from 382 cases yesterday), 8 deaths
  • Australia - 128 cases (up from 107 cases yesterday), 3 deaths
  • Canada - 117 cases (up from 93 yesterday), 3 deaths

United States: now in 39 states and the District of Columbia
  • Over 100 universities in the US have canceled in-person classes. Several universities have closed dorms and send students home.
 
Re: 2019 Coronavirus (COVID-19)

a top Chinese specialist who took part in controlling the spread in China said IF other countries like the USA get their act together like right NOW-- this may start to get under control by June--with our moron in chief seems unlikely here--good luck to wherever you live.
 
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