Alternate view of Columbus Day

[mikey3000]

Re: Columbus Day, the history, the people, the fuss, and whatever it all means

Blame game? Holding evil people accountable for egregious, violent sins shouldn't be mocked as if it's infantile, like a sibling fussing about younger sibling misplacing their hair brush. We're talking about the slaughter and enslavement of innocent people, how are Americans constantly so cavalier about this? "Yeah we destroyed some cultures stop yippin about it." "Ok maybe we raped and tortured people couldja get over it?" That's disgusting and inhumane. And arguably racist to be honest.

Conquest is the history of the world. Google it. Although you try hard, you will never erase it.

 

[Vannie]

Re: Happy Columbus Day!!

Only 365 more days till Columbus Day 2019

 

[Alistair]

Re: Happy Columbus Day!!

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

Re: Columbus Day, the history, the people, the fuss, and whatever it all means

They were such nice people.

So when wypipo slaughter it's a freeforall cuz "Fuck it, everybody does it?" Noted. Good thing Columbus was here to rid the world of those evil murderous children he sold into sex slavery.

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

Re: Columbus Day, the history, the people, the fuss, and whatever it all means

Conquest is the history of the world. Google it. Although you try hard, you will never erase it.

Bombast, touting history whilst manipulating it to uphold white supremacy. And boldly, without so much as a cloak to even pretend its something else. The only erasure here are Columbus' crimes against humanity that, once again, because the victims were brown people are shrugging off with a "Meh." The arrogance and ignorance of uplifting this man as some sort of hero would be mind-boggling if I didn't already live in a nation whose currency features the faces of slave owners. Time and again the authors of history and their nefarious minions distort facts and casually dismiss unspeakable acts of evil as they high-five each other over countless brown corpses. Must be Tuesday.

This, in an of itself, is offensive, what makes it wildly confusing is that Columbus used little girls as currency. And yall are seriously like "Well, ya know, it was the 1400s." You'd think child trafficking would be a line where people go "Nope, not fuckin with Columbus" but nah yall still cappin for him like he's the bees knees. It certainly sheds light on the state of our culture. And imagine, if just one of his victims came forward they'd be raked over the coals for trying to destroy this honorable man's reputation.

America, as a whole, needs therapy. Like, intense psycho-therapy. Praising people like this is not normal and not healthy and, again, none of it is ok "because it was a different era."

 

[Latimer]

Re: Columbus Day, the history, the people, the fuss, and whatever it all means

Despite all of the sins (real and imagined) of white Europeans and their descendants, both in now and in the past, people risk their lives to gain a foothold in the countries they (for now, at least) govern. AND YET, THEY STILL KEEP COMING.

Try imagining a world without the accumulated legacy of Western Civilization and the individual and group accomplishments of its inhabitants. Where do you want to begin? Germ theory? Penicillin? The telescope and microscope? Tell me about the qualities of the indigenous cultures of sub-Saharan Africa and the pre-Colombian Americas which would lead to the standard of living you now enjoy. That you are even alive.

No doubt the conquistadores were often cruel, etc., etc. Please educate me on the kindness and charity of the Aztecs, a peaceful people beloved and celebrated by all the tribes in the lands that surrounded theirs...

 

[NotHardUp1]

Re: Columbus Day, the history, the people, the fuss, and whatever it all means

All the usual suspects.

How predictable.

And I love the lumping together of all non-Natives as being guilty of Columbus' crimes or the Spanish Crown's excesses. Well, guess what? Everyone who owns land in the Americas, be they Canadian, Mexican, French, English, Spanish, African, Chinese, or whatever, and NOT descended from the pre-Columbian tribes, is an inheritor of the spoils of war.

Feeling bad about it or putting on sackcloth all these centuries later means jack shit. The history is what it is. Unless you're going to turn over the land to the owners, everything else is psycho-social masturbation in lieu of restitution.

It's the same old tired hack. Virtue is imputed to the vanquished and vice to the victors. Is it Disney or Pixar?

As always in the culture wars, it's a great way for a holier-than-thou dichotomy to be imposed so that a supposed super-moral minority can champion the righteousness that they define, with parameters that they set but not further. How appalling.

 

[peeonme]

Re: Columbus Day, the history, the people, the fuss, and whatever it all means

Human sacrifice
Main article: Human sacrifice in Maya culture
Relief sculpture of a decapitated ballplayer, adorning the Great Ballcourt at Chichen Itza

Blood was viewed as a potent source of nourishment for the Maya deities, and the sacrifice of a living creature was a powerful blood offering. By extension, the sacrifice of a human life was the ultimate offering of blood to the gods, and the most important Maya rituals culminated in human sacrifice. Generally only high status prisoners of war were sacrificed, with lower status captives being used for labour
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maya_civilization#Human_sacrifice

The assumption that all indigenous people were kind loving people and the evil white man fucked it all up is a blatant lie.

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

Re: Columbus Day, the history, the people, the fuss, and whatever it all means

Despite all of the sins (real and imagined)

Which of Columbus' sins were imagined?

people risk their lives to gain a foothold in the countries they (for now, at least) govern. AND YET, THEY STILL KEEP COMING.

Going from a dangerous situation to a less dangerous situation doesn't make situation numero dos ideal.

Try imagining a world without the accumulated legacy of Western Civilization and the individual and group accomplishments of its inhabitants. Where do you want to begin? Germ theory? Penicillin? The telescope and microscope? Tell me about the qualities of the indigenous cultures of sub-Saharan Africa and the pre-Colombian Americas which would lead to the standard of living you now enjoy. That you are even alive.

Ah, there it is, "Where would you colored folks be if the white man hadn't saved you from your mud huts?" So I was right. This IS a white saviorism thread.

No doubt the conquistadores were often cruel, etc., etc.

It's fake to pretend to acknoweldge this, then defend with "Well other people do it too." By the way, I don't know why you're even bringing up the Aztecs other than they're brown, the Taino people is who Columbus wiped out. Your comment kind of reeks of Fox News displaying Patti Labelle's picture in their Aretha Franklin RIP photo.

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

Re: Columbus Day, the history, the people, the fuss, and whatever it all means

It's the same old tired hack. Virtue is imputed to the vanquished and vice to the victors. Is it Disney or Pixar?

All due respect, "virtue" is a highly ironic word to use a thread expressing pride at a man who sold 9 year olds into sex slavery.

As always in the culture wars, it's a great way for a holier-than-thou dichotomy to be imposed so that a supposed super-moral minority can champion the righteousness that they define, with parameters that they set but not further. How appalling.

Yeah. Slavery. Child sex rings. Genocide. These things are evil. You don't have to have some soap box to stand on for those things to be evil, I would question the mental health of anyone who suggests those acts are anything less. Mocking people who want an accurate and honest reading of history is a new low.

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

Re: Columbus Day, the history, the people, the fuss, and whatever it all means

The assumption that all indigenous people were kind loving people and the evil white man fucked it all up is a blatant lie.

Nobody said that, you pulled that quote out of thin air. Mayans, Aztec, funny that everyone is mentioning names and tribes and culture except for the one he actually brutalized. What do they teach you people in elementary school?

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

Re: Columbus Day, the history, the people, the fuss, and whatever it all means

For the record, if we're going to at least attempt historical accuracy, the people Columbus met were peaceful. In. His. Own. Fucking. Words.

“They … brought us parrots and balls of cotton and spears and many other things… They willingly traded everything they owned… They were well-built, with good bodies and handsome features…. They do not bear arms, and do not know them, for I showed them a sword, they took it by the edge and cut themselves out of ignorance. They have no iron. Their spears are made of cane… . They would make fine servants…. With fifty men we could subjugate them all and make them do whatever we want.”

After several months in the Caribbean, on January 13, 1493 two Natives were murdered during trading. Columbus, who had otherwise described the Natives as gentle people wrote “(they are) evil and I believe they are from the island of Caribe, and that they eat men.” He also described them as “savage cannibals, with dog-like noses that drink the blood of their victims.”

https://newsmaven.io/indiancountryt...mbus-and-columbus-day-D4RHJ-PJLkaQC_BQVRNUBg/

In addition to putting the Natives to work as slaves in his gold mines, Columbus also sold sex slaves to his men—some as young as 9. Columbus and his men also raided villages for sex and sport.

In the year 1500, Columbus wrote: “A hundred castellanoes are as easily obtained for a woman as for a farm, and it is very general and there are plenty of dealers who go about looking for girls; those from nine to ten are now in demand.”

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

Re: Columbus Day, the history, the people, the fuss, and whatever it all means

Ladies and gentlemen, your hero:

-The first europeans to commit genocide against native Americans

-Capture and enslaved over a thousand, hundreds died en route to being traded

-natives as young as 14 made to dig for gold, failure to meet quota meant your hands got chopped off, didn't matter that there wasn't much gold to be found. some fled trying to escape, they were hunted and killed

-The torment was such that some tribes began committing mass suicides, tens of thousands killed themselves and their own children, in the same spirit as transatlantic slaves who jumped overboard into the atlantic.

-In just a few years years, over a hundred thousand were dead-- by murder torture or suicide. Soon there were only a few hundred living. eventually they were gone. An entire people wiped off the face of the earth by your "hero." *insert vomit animated gif*

https://www.vox.com/2014/10/13/6957875/christopher-columbus-murderer-tyrant-scoundrel

While I was in the boat, I captured a very beautiful woman, whom the Lord Admiral [Columbus] gave to me. When I had taken her to my cabin she was naked — as was their custom. I was filled with a desire to take my pleasure with her and attempted to satisfy my desire. She was unwilling, and so treated me with her nails that I wished I had never begun. I then took a piece of rope and whipped her soundly, and she let forth such incredible screams that you would not have believed your ears. Eventually we came to such terms, I assure you, that you would have thought she had been brought up in a school for whores.

-reduced indigenous population from hundreds of thousands to a few hundred.

-multiple sources confirm "exhausted Indian carriers, chained by the neck, whose heads the Spaniards severed from their bodies so they might not have to stop to untie them."

 

[Alistair]

Re: Columbus Day, the history, the people, the fuss, and whatever it all means

Human sacrifice
Main article: Human sacrifice in Maya culture
Relief sculpture of a decapitated ballplayer, adorning the Great Ballcourt at Chichen Itza

Blood was viewed as a potent source of nourishment for the Maya deities, and the sacrifice of a living creature was a powerful blood offering. By extension, the sacrifice of a human life was the ultimate offering of blood to the gods, and the most important Maya rituals culminated in human sacrifice. Generally only high status prisoners of war were sacrificed, with lower status captives being used for labour
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maya_civilization#Human_sacrifice

The assumption that all indigenous people were kind loving people and the evil white man fucked it all up is a blatant lie.

Who said that?

The history of Mayan sacrifice was taught in school. (At least mine) right along side Saint Columbus and the Nina, Pinta and Santa Maria. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Now wiki the torture Columbus was responsible for.

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

Re: Columbus Day, the history, the people, the fuss, and whatever it all means

Two wrongs don't make a right.

That we have to explain this to grown men who are either ignorant or forgiving of Columbus' crimes is most disheartening.

Now wiki the torture Columbus was responsible for.

He's in for a helluva ride, some of the stories are pretty fucking disturbing, like Texas Chainsaw Massacre disturbing.

 

[Cormac135]

Re: Columbus Day, the history, the people, the fuss, and whatever it all means

Who said that?

The history of Mayan sacrifice was taught in school. (At least mine) right along side Saint Columbus and the Nina, Pinta and Santa Maria. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Now wiki the torture Columbus was responsible for.

Just did, he was a bit of a sarky bugger.

Columbus once punished a man found guilty of stealing corn by having his ears and nose cut off and then selling him into slavery.

That's a bit more than an ear for an ear.

 

[Alistair]

Re: Columbus Day, the history, the people, the fuss, and whatever it all means

The history books were wrong on Columbus about many facts, how many facts about the Mayan culture did they get wrong?

I'm not saying he was Hitler, I'm just saying let's not make him an undeserving Saint.

 

[peeonme]

Re: Columbus Day, the history, the people, the fuss, and whatever it all means

The history books were wrong on Columbus about many facts, how many facts about the Mayan culture did they get wrong?

I'm not saying he was Hitler, I'm just saying let's not make him an undeserving Saint.

The sjw crowd likes to claim that the 'indians' were just kind noble people and another group victimized by the evil white man.

 

[peeonme]

Re: Columbus Day, the history, the people, the fuss, and whatever it all means

The history books were wrong on Columbus about many facts, how many facts about the Mayan culture did they get wrong?

I'm not saying he was Hitler, I'm just saying let's not make him an undeserving Saint.

The troubling part isn't in hearing the truth, it's the idea of using this truth to spout off about 'white supremacy' and further the agenda of anti Americanism.

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

Re: Columbus Day, the history, the people, the fuss, and whatever it all means

The sjw crowd likes to claim that the 'indians' were just kind noble people and another group victimized by the evil white man.

That's how Columbus described the people he met. every time someone tries to hold white people accountable for acts of terrorism here you guys go jumping up with your elementary deflections and impotent reasonings that "It's not that bad you're just making a big deal out of it cuz they white." It's a tired, useless shield to protect sensitivities for people who mindlessly view this as some sort of attack on their own whiteness.

You can't argue that the things he did weren't terrible, so instead you try to villainize his victims by way of barbaric actions of entirely different indigenuous groups who, by the way, weren't even on the same fucking body of land. "It's not bad cuz they were savages too." It's so racist that David Duke himself might blush at this logic. The proof is in the pudding, no one's even trying to claim that Columbus accomplished anything notable, this thread is the result of dishonest storytelling in public schools and racist people who hungrily latch on to any narrative that absolves white terrorists of accountability. The reasons are as hilarious as they are malevolent:

"The Aztecs did this"

"The Mayans did this"

"Where would these savages be if the white man didn't come rescue them?"

It's been a while since I've seen such blatant, open, unapologetic racism on JUB and it's most unsettling.