Big Brother 15

[slipintothefog]

Yeah, like I love Rachel but the POV she won to save herself and Jordan after the duo twist was obviously meant for her. I don't know why people act like the show was rigged for her though considering Jordan would have been the one evicted that week and she was the one Grodner and America clearly would have preferred to win, and Rachel still won the F5 HOH and could have still used her friendship/alliance with Porsche to advance past F4.

 

[falconfan]

Elissa has said numerous times that she's putting Andy up, that she knows Amanda wants her to put GM up, and that's exactly why she won't put GM up. Elissa has shown remarkable resilience to Amanda's bullying and manipulation (remember she refused to MVP Howard and she also ignored Amanda's request for nominations this week) so I'd be genuinely surprised if Andy isn't the replacement nominee. And that's just such delicious karma for me because he'll be begging for his life in the game just like he made Helen beg last week.

Elissa has actually been surprising strong willed. It's weird because it doesn't seem to fit with her flighty personality but I really doubt GM will go up. Amanda's plan wasn't even a bad one she just needed to slow play it and make it seem like she didn't want GM to go up but Amanda is tailspinning harder than ever because it's the first week she hasn't gotten to make the nominations. I don't even care that she pushes people around, honestly. I think it's there fault for letting her do it. Points to Elissa though for refusing, even if I suspect she's getting much more discreetly pushed by much more subtle and skilled manipulators in DR who have wanted the PR nightmare that is Arryn out of their house since week 3.

The sad thing is I might reluctantly have to admit that Amanda is the best strategic player this season? Which is a sad, sad statement. She wouldn't achieve the level of my beloved though admittedly mediocre- medium/good strategist Brittney Haynes. All and all this has been a shitty strategy season. And it's not been a clear divided tense BB6 style season either. It's just BLAH.

 

[Sgt Pepper]

I don't know why people act like the show was rigged for her though considering Jordan would have been the one evicted that week and she was the one Grodner and America clearly would have preferred to win, and Rachel still won the F5 HOH and could have still used her friendship/alliance with Porsche to advance past F4.

Oh I have no doubt that twist was geared toward saving Jordan, but it still ultimately benefited Rachel. Without it and with Rachel winning POV fair and square, Jordan would've gone home that week, which means Shelly would've been competing for the next HOH. Assuming for the sake of argument that Rachel still would've won that HOH (because Shelly sucked at comps), she would then have to decide whether to get rid of Shelly or Kalia that week. If she gets rid of Shelly, that puts Kalia in that F4 HOH comp which she could've won but if Rachel gets rid of Kalia (more likely), that puts Shelly in F4 and assuming HOH/POV went the same way (because again...Shelly) then Shelly and Rachel wind up on the block post-veto with Porsche as the hammer. If you're Porsche in that situation, you obviously get rid of Rachel because that puts Porsche in the F3 HOH comps with two deadweights Adam and Shelly. Remember Porsche only kept Rachel because her other option was Jordan, who would have the jury votes and who managed to win the endgame comps on her own season. Porsche certainly wouldn't have that fear about Shelly.

So yeah it's a Choose Your Own Adventure scenario, but that duo twist did change things enough that Rachel's win will always have an asterisk next to it (just like Dick Donato).

 

[slipintothefog]

When you're right, you're right. But I don't know if one twist should be enough to place an asterisk against any winner -- other than Dick because America's Player was a constant thing that ALWAYS benefited him and pretty much him alone. In that case, should Jordan have one because of the coup d'etat? In a scenario that Porsche wins BB13, would the four weeks of safety she received from the Golden Key count against her? If Elissa wins this season (LOL), does MVP jeopardize that? Would Sandra have won Pearl Island without somebody from the Outcast twist bending the game over her knee, spanking it repeatedly, and then even hand-picking Sandra as her F2 opponent?

These people -- again, other than Dick, who had America's Player helping him all the way to the F5, and then had him campaigning and giving an automatic vote for him on the jury -- still had to make it to the end and get the votes. Which... yes, I already know somebody's going to go there with Shelly's deciding vote being made because Jordeff fans were threatening her family and Shelly probably voted for Rachel to appease them. THAT is much more of an asterisk thing when it comes to Rachel's win than the Pandora's Box.

 

[Sgt Pepper]

I realize I'm splitting hairs here, but I do make a distinction between Grodner's bullshit twists early in the season -- where the houseguests still have a reasonable stretch of game to slog through the old-fashioned way once the twist is exhausted -- and a twist when there are only 6 people left (or a season-long one like with Dick). Letting a competition beast like Rachel get that kinda boost that late in the game practically hands her a F2 spot.

That's also why I initially said Judd coming back later in the game was more unfair than Kaysar or Amy coming back earlier (until one of you correctly pointed out that the increase in houseguest numbers this season made Judd's return not that dissimilar).

But, great points slip.

 

[Sgt Pepper]

UGH UPDATE.

Elissa IS seriously considering putting up GM instead of Andy which means Amanda's plan is working. I hope she rethinks this or is just humoring Andy but it doesn't seem that way.

 

[slipintothefog]

True. But take the coup d'etat twist. People underrate how far Jordan would have gotten without it -- she still had Jeff and Michele as shields in that season, Michele won the next HOH anyway, and Jordan was likable enough that she could have slipped through the cracks once Jessie's alliance started cannibalizing itself -- but without a twist undoing Chima's HOH, keeping Russell in the game and having one of the opposing alliance hit the road, evening up the game at the F8, would she still have won? I seriously seriously doubt it, but in the season that happened, Jordan still got to the end, won a clutch HOH when she needed to, and got a 5-2 jury vote, so I can't take that win away from her. I can understand your hesitation to take Rachel's win seriously because her benefiting twist happened later than usual, though.

 

[Sgt Pepper]

She wouldn't achieve the level of my beloved though admittedly mediocre- medium/good strategist Brittney Haynes. All and all this has been a shitty strategy season. And it's not been a clear divided tense BB6 style season either. It's just BLAH.

Whoa. I love Britney but when was she ever a good strategist?

And Elissa REALLY seems to be leaning toward putting up GM as the replacement now. Which means Amanda isn't just a good manipulator, she's a fucking magician.

 

[Sgt Pepper]

I can understand your hesitation to take Rachel's win seriously because her benefiting twist happened later than usual, though.

Yeah it was just a LOT of stuff that season that seemed geared toward a vet winning and Rachel was the beneficiary of that (even if not the intended one). I'm sorry, I know I always keep ragging on your girl and I really don't mean to LOL. I really want to like the idea of someone like Rachel winning, just to prove that a strong female competitor who was loyal to her alliance can do that (I'm a Janelle fan after all). I probably wouldn't even care about the BB13 twists so much if she just had a modicum of social game. To me, Survivor and Big Brother ultimately comes down to getting people to vote for you, and I can't fathom how someone who went out of her way to alienate and antagonize people like Rachel did, could win. In the old days of BB it seemed like someone like Rachel could win her way to the end and then promptly lose to her "goat" because she didn't do anything to earn jury votes during the game. But maybe I need to just let this go and accept that 1) Porsche wasn't exactly earning jury votes either and 2) staying true to her vets alliance and specifically refusing to turn on Jeff & Jordan when Danielle tempted her was good strategy for Rachel and a good social game move that guaranteed her at least three votes on the jury.

That's certainly more than Dick ever did.

 

[slipintothefog]

It's okay love, I'm certainly not delusional enough to try to say Rachel was some Will Kirby-esque mastermind who owned the shit out of the game and was also a social goddess along the likes of Dan Gheesling. She benefited from some BS twists, which a lot of people do on these shows, and then somehow eeked out a win by a single vote, and 4-3 or 5-4 wins always bring on debate regarding whether or not the win was deserved anyway. Although, Rachel did improve a little on BB13 because she was able to maintain an alliance to somebody other than Brendon and she even managed to make some female friends/alliance members (remember she always targeted women due to her insecurities during BB12) in Porsche and Jordan.

Okay I'm starting to veer into delusional Rachel Reilly stan territory here. I'm sorry. She definitely wouldn't be high on my list of winners based on strategy alone but a ranking of winners along those lines alone would have Maggie Ausburn near the top of the list so fuck that noise. At least there's always Jun Song.

 

[Sgt Pepper]

UGH the worst part about Elissa putting up GM is not just that Aaryn will stay and the 3AM will remain strong and Elissa's HOH will be a total waste, but that fucking ANDY will be Smuggy McGee all week. I was really looking forward to him squirming on the block and losing Aaryn, so I hope the DR does what it does best and turns Elissa right back around again.

It's okay love, I'm certainly not delusional enough to try to say Rachel was some Will Kirby-esque mastermind who owned the shit out of the game and was also a social goddess along the likes of Dan Gheesling.

I know you never disliked him or anything, but you praising Dan makes me as happy as you feel when I praise Danielle Reyes LOL.

 

[slipintothefog]

OMG the Daniele/Rachel rivalry was so epic I can't even. Thank god Daniele didn't want to play nice because that was one for the ages.

 

[slipintothefog]

I know you never disliked him or anything, but you praising Dan makes me as happy as you feel when I praise Danielle Reyes LOL.

I wasn't posting here during BB10 but Dan was my favorite that season, so. Too bad he didn't create any LOL spammable moments like "MAGNA CUM LAUDE LOOK IT FUCKING UP" or "I GOT A FUCKING LEOTAAAAHD" for me to bring him up more though.

 

[Sgt Pepper]

She definitely wouldn't be high on my list of winners based on strategy alone

And now of course because you've put that out there, I have to make a list of winners based on strategy alone.

GREAT
1. Dan BB10 and Will BB2 (tie)
2. Jun BB4

GOOD
3. Maggie BB6
4. Adam BB9
5. Hayden BB12
6. Drew BB5

UNDERRATED
7. Lisa BB3
8. Jordan BB11

OVERRATED
9. Boogie BB7
10. Ian BB14

BAD
11. Rachel BB13

RIGGED
12. Dick BB8

 

[Sgt Pepper]

Too bad he didn't create any LOL spammable moments like "MAGNA CUM LAUDE LOOK IT FUCKING UP"

Oh speaking of which, apparently even the Queen of Pop loves a good imperious LOOK IT UP!

 

[slipintothefog]

Oh of course I know. My boyfriend is a former Little Monster while I am a past, present and future equivalent for Madonna. The "LOOK IT UP" jokes have run rampant between us since I showed him the video of Madonna bringing the word "reductive" into the popular lexicon of gay pop diva stans everywhere.

Here's a quick strategy ranking for me to make this post relevant:
Best: Will > Dan > Jun > Maggie
Mid: Hayden > Lisa > Drew > Adam
Low: Ian > Jordan > Rachel > Boogie
Worst: Dick

Conversely, how much I like them as characters?
Best: Rachel > Jun > Will > Jordan
Mid: Dan > Lisa > Drew
Low: Ian > Hayden > Adam > Boogie
Worst: Maggie > Dick

Like... say what you want about GM being a trash bag, but she can be funny and personable sometimes. Maggie was a fucking sociopath who admitted on camera that she let some of her patients die just because she didn't like them or thought they couldn't afford health care or something frivolous. And she's STILL better than Dick.

 

[Sgt Pepper]

My boyfriend is a former Little Monster

Former? I didn't know Stefani Germanotta had any defectors.

Conversely, how much I like them as characters?
Best: Rachel > Jun > Will > Jordan

WHOA WHOA WHOA. I know she entertains you, but you like Rachel more than JUN AND WILL???

 

[slipintothefog]

To be fair to them, I haven't seen Jun's season since 2003, and I only have BB7 to judge Will on (and I placed him that high in both categories based on BB7 alone because I could tell he was amazing even in that season), while I enjoyed watching Rachel act crazy for two straight years and had all of the internet analysis/feed recaps/GIFs/etc.

 

[Sgt Pepper]

RIGGED
12. Dick BB8

Here's a quick strategy ranking for me to make this post relevant:
Worst: Dick

Conversely, how much I like them as characters?
Worst: Maggie > Dick

LOL @ Dick being our absolute worst on any list ever. Even his daughter would agree.

 

[slipintothefog]

In my dreams I still like to imagine that Jen Johnson won BB8. :tears: