Democratic Debate Charleston SC - January 17th [MERGED]

[BenDan]

$1000 says it is.

not sure what you're betting on

 

[Sausy]

Bernie still COULD win the nomination(Hillary isn't inevitable by any means, but being the safest choice vs the looney GOP lineup is still her huge selling point) but while Bernie still helps himself with performances like tonight, it just slows any momentum of Hillary's down. Doesn't mean it's all going to Bernie's now, clear sailing ahead. Still a lot of time especially with the early primaries for him to make more inroads, though.

 

[CoolBlue71]

NBC is starting a livestream at 5PM PST, 8EST

You can watch as the DNC's plan to hide the democrats debate backfires with Sanders surging past Clinton.

Was only a matter of time before the conservative leaning wall street senator crumbled.

Thank you, evanrick, for providing that video link! I will access it through my streaming device. (I missed the debate as it aired live.)

 

[CoolBlue71]

Re: Such a shame that Martin O'Malley is in this debate

I don't really think it matters much. No matter what Hillary says..she will be a cunt in the eyes of Bernie Fans...and that is all we will hear about for the next week..what is wrong with her and what is right with Bernie.

I don't think it matters much what anyone actually says. The loudest ones on the left are Bernie Fans. I think it is a blessing he is there because it is less time to take apart Hillary.....and it will give the Republicans less orgasms while "we" do it to her and do their job for them...

I prefer Bernie Sanders over Hillary Clinton because his policy ideas more closely reflect where I am at politically.

I can assure you, though, that I don't look down on Hillary Clinton nor do I want to express anything vile to prop up some argument that Bernie Sanders would be the better choice for the 2016 Democratic presidential nomination.

We are in primaries mode. But, after the nomination has been won, and after the convention makes it official, the nominee will have the overwhelming support of self-identified Democrats for the general election.

 

[CoolBlue71]

Does Bernie have any chance of winning the Democrat nomination ?

Apart from on here i've very rarely heard his name even mentioned on tv in the UK.

At this rate, I want more time to play out because Iowa and New Hampshire won't happen for another (estimate) two to four weeks. (I'm actually forgetting exact dates on the schedule.)

If Iowa and New Hampshire are won by one person, the historical pattern suggests that candidate will win the nomination from his party. But, Iowa came into the caucuses/primaries presidential-nominating process in 1976. Taking 1976 and running it to the last election, 2012, amount to just ten cycles. That's not a long period of time. It is something. And those two states, which never intend to release their grip from being at the front of the class of the 50 states (plus more), on the timeline, influence the trajectory of the Republican and Democratic presidential primaries. They don't dictate. But, usually the nominees from both parties carry at least one of these two states. And, so far, each time one candidate carried both Iowa and New Hampshire…that candidate ended up having won his party's nomination.

I am much more confident that Donald Trump will win the 2016 Republican presidential nomination because the other candidates have not connected with likely voters as Trump has. Much has been portrayed that the party will come up with an establishment-preferred candidate, indicating lately it's Marco Rubio, but I think any of that (which may or may not have worked) is a lost opportunity. Too late. The primary voters are drawn to Trump. And I think, at this point, New Hampshire is easily going for Trump. He may win Iowa; but there is a persistent insistence that Iowa will be going for Ted Cruz. Well, even if Cruz wins Iowa the margin may turn out to be 5 or less percentage points between No. 1 Cruz and No. 2 Trump. But, really, Cruz's potential is similar to a 2012 Newt Gingrich. After Iowa and New Hampshire, Trump has the kind of candidacy, should he win his party's nomination, to carry on the map like Mitt Romney did en route to his 2012 nomination. (And this would include Ted Cruz's home state of Texas and Marco Rubio's home state of Florida just as Mitt Romney ended up having won Rick Santorum's home state of Pennsylvania. All three are Top 10 populous state. So is Donald Trump's home state New York. And all that would have no problem in delivering California to Trump.) The momentum has a lot to do with it. And the candidate that gets that going will likely roll though the lion's share of the map (especially the double-digit electoral-vote states from No. 1 California to No. 21 Minnesota which, mathematically, make up about 70 percent of the population of the United States).

 

[kallipolis]

No matter how rational ones appraisal of today's reality, I am obliged to Winston Churchill for his wise words:

“The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.”

 

[TickTockMan]

Hillary said Bernie wants to scrap Obamacare and put in Medicare for everyone. She wants to keep Obamacare and put in universal health care. Is that not the same?

 

[kallipolis]

Hillary said Bernie wants to scrap Obamacare and put in Medicare for everyone. She wants to keep Obamacare and put in universal health care. Is that not the same?

Variations on a similar theme are guaranteed to entertain, rather than inform with any hope of unravelling a puzzle.

That's politics, folks.

 

[evanrick]

Hillary said Bernie wants to scrap Obamacare and put in Medicare for everyone. She wants to keep Obamacare and put in universal health care. Is that not the same?

i dont understand Hilarys attempt to muddy the waters, shes saying if you are for healthcare reform you are against obamacare, making it sound like Bernie would sign a gop bill repealing obamacare if he gets elected. what kind of half witted argument is that? does she think people will believe that? or her attacks on his position on guns?

 

[CoolBlue71]

i dont understand Hilarys attempt to muddy the waters, shes saying if you are for healthcare reform you are against obamacare, making it sound like Bernie would sign a gop bill repealing obamacare if he gets elected. what kind of half witted argument is that? does she think people will believe that? or her attacks on his position on guns?

There are people who will believe it. But it isn't so much what she's saying. This is a primaries contest. The Hillary supporters are already there. She's doing her best, right now, to persuade as many as possible that she would make the better choice. Martin O'Malley is as much a non-factor on the Democratic side as John Kasich is on the Republican side. So, between Hillary and Bernie, this kind of statement, true or false, gets pedaled.

 

[frankfrank]

Bernie is still my guy. More so than any other candidate in my lifetime, and ever shall be.

Hillary, though, brought up something that I think will help her in this part of the country: the poisonous lead WATER in Flint, Michigan. This has been an under-reported story and the power structure in Lansing allowed it to languish, until word got to Rachel Maddow on MSNBC two or three weeks ago...if it hadn't bee reported there it would have possibly NEVER gotten any traction.

After all, it's a very poor city - one of the poorest in the United States (and THE HIGHEST WATER RATES, or close to it!!), and it's full of n*****s who vote Democratic***, so Rick Snyder and others were perfectly happy to just let the people there get poisoned, even after the EPA and certainly the local residents were complaining about, respectively, high lead counts and yellow tap water.

***OK, sorry, I'm JUST using "part of" a word that I am SURE is very often spoken in private by these turds.

THIS IS THE SHIT YOU GET WHEN "EMERGENCY FINANCIAL MANAGERS" CAN COME IN, BY FIAT, AND NEUTER ALL ELECTED OFFICIALS AND OVERRULE DEMOCRACY TO ESTABLISH THEIR OWN LITTLE FEIFDOMS. The EFM, among other things, switched water sources from Detroit (good water) to the Flint river (corrosive water which compromised old plumbing all over the city, causing lead to leach out)...TO SAVE MONEY. Isn't that what Republicans always do...skimp and cheat, even if it might kill people? (Oh, OK - if the people die, they're Democrats.)

Fucking Republicans...again.

 

[T-Rexx]

Does Bernie have any chance of winning the Democrat nomination ?

Apart from on here i've very rarely heard his name even mentioned on tv in the UK.

No, he does not.

But, his candidacy has been of considerable importance. By advancing the positions that he has, he has pulled Hillary Clinton significantly to the left. She is now proposing a national health service with single payer and comprehensive coverage for all. She is proposing reform of Wall Street fraud with punishment of banking criminals. She now supports gay marriage (prior to 2014, she opposed gay marriage - although her "evolution" on that issue was because of Obama, not Sanders).

Sanders can't win, but he has made Clinton a better candidate.

 

[T-Rexx]

Hillary said Bernie wants to scrap Obamacare and put in Medicare for everyone. She wants to keep Obamacare and put in universal health care. Is that not the same?

Yeah, it is. Their positions on healthcare are now identical.

 

[kallipolis]

Yeah, it is. Their positions on healthcare are now identical.

Noted...............................

 

[evanrick]

No, he does not.

But, his candidacy has been of considerable importance. By advancing the positions that he has, he has pulled Hillary Clinton significantly to the left. She is now proposing a national health service with single payer and comprehensive coverage for all. She is proposing reform of Wall Street fraud with punishment of banking criminals. She now supports gay marriage (prior to 2014, she opposed gay marriage - although her "evolution" on that issue was because of Obama, not Sanders).

Sanders can't win, but he has made Clinton a better candidate.

did you watch the debate on youtube? for us we saw most searched came up bernie was ahead of clinton in 40-45 states, after the debate it was all 50 states, shes sliding in the polls and you still believe she can win? nobody has won with that much negatives.

 

[MakeDigitalLove]

I just have never really liked Hillary and still don't. To me she is a faux democrat and more-so conservative. She is wishy washy and just plays her party like every other Politician. That is something I am tired of seeing and Bernie is not that.

She obviously would be a better candidate than any of the GOP noms, but to me that is all she really has going on for her.

 

[albaboy]

Go Hillary!

 

[eastofeden]

On Health Care..Going back to 1992...one of the reasons Hillary became a villain and was attacked by the right wing is because she pulled up her sleeves and was instrumental in trying to get Universal Health Care for ALL Americans She was demonized as not knowing her place...and it has been a snowball since then...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinton_health_care_plan_of_1993

She is not standing in my way. Two things ARE standing in my way. Gerrymandering....which has allowed the minority to rule the majority...and unlimited campaign contributions which has allowed the Koch Boys and Super Pacs and the 1% to own the government.

I like Bernie...I agree with him as much as, if not more than, I agree with Hillary issue by issue...but I am not stupid. She will win..he won't. Hispanics and Liberal to Moderate Women around here...they will come out for Hillary...they probably won't leave their houses for Bernie....Democrats have a horrible time getting their people to the voting booth...and it doesn't help to have young white hipsters screaming about her which is what is happening around here.

I used to be one of those idealistic people who screamed about change..and then I got it finally...thanks to Mr Obama. He was way too conservative for me...but I know change happens slowly.....and the less the pendulum swings..the better. If we go far left for four years...uh...fasten your seatbelts for the pendulum to swing back to far right for the next four..and with gerrymandering..it could be a fucking disaster....

In case anyone has missed it..the Republicans get scarier by the minute.....just look at the crew who has floated to the top of their class..the best they have to offer...OMFG...fuck my idealism. The only thing I care about now is keeping one of those crazy fucks from getting onto the Oval Office....next year...and four years from now....

 

[MakeDigitalLove]

Of course Bernie can't win if we continually have a defeatists attitude about it instead of actually voting for him, but you know.

 

[eastofeden]

Of course Bernie can't win if we continually have a defeatists attitude about it instead of actually voting for him, but you know.

I would vote for him in a general election ...no doubt about it...but never in the primary..because I don't think he can win. The strength of the Democrats is not white left liberals...and demonizing Hillary will NOT do them any favors getting the rank and file Dems to the Voting Booth....