Do naturally effeminate gay men have it easier or harder?

[halubtsi]

Jareth, it's interesting that you should bring up this topic. I was thinking about this very question last week. I believe that it's easier for flamboyant gay men to come out, because they might feel as though it is pointless to hide their sexuality. Some flamboyant gay men, may not even need to formally come out, because it's assumed that they are gay. And I doubt that they'll lose friends if they did "come out," since most of their friends would have most likely come to that conclusion before. As for the homophobic attacks, you're right. They would be the blazing red target for homophobic attacks...But as someone who is of Filipino descent, I can't exactly hide my skin colour or my almond shaped eyes. I was also a "big red target" for racist attacks. Except for a run-in with a skinhead in Russia, luckily I've never really had to deal with such blatant racism. I'm sure that people have spoken about my ethnicity behind my back, but never really to my face. I think the same would go for most homophobic comments. Essentially, the target becomes the butt of everyone's jokes. I'm not justifying homophobic comments or jokes, I'm just stating what I've observed during my years as an undercover gay man.

A gay man that fits more of the straight man stereotype may have it more difficult because of the shock factor. He also has to contend with the fact that his friends assume that he's straight and that they may abandon him if he comes out. I fit into this category, so I'm talking from personal experiences here.

That being said, I could be totally off with regards to the coming out experiences of the flamboyantly gay. I'm sure I'll be corrected. Those were just my thoughts on the issue. My assumptions could be completely off, though. What say you?

 

[Twisly]

i think its easier for effeminate gay men to go "out", but its harder for them to find a boyfriend.

 

[_yamato_]

Flamboyantly gay, or rather, effeminate men had to grow up as flamboyantly effeminate boys and I think you grossly underestimate how hard that might have been. Kids are if possible more cruel to each other than grown ups, it is like tolerance for those different does not show up until after puberty.

In the society of grown-ups at large, I think today, in the secular, western world it is possible it is easier for them to just be what they are than for others that easier fit into the straight stereotype. However, I guess most of the time that has been paid for many times before turning 16. RESPECT - they deserve it.

 

[Kulindahr]

I grew up where it wasn't safe to be suspected of being gay, even. Anyone who might have been naturally flamboyant suppressed it and hid it well. It was (and mostly still is) safer for a woman to act like a man than for a guy to seem womanly at all. The only guys I'm aware of who have gotten away with coming out at all (I'm thinking of the high school) have been varsity lettermen who were tough enough to handle about anything -- and then only if they were bi. So in a lot of ways it depends on the culture around you.

 

[RenaissanceMan]

For me, it seems like you've answered your own question adequately. I think it depends...and it depends what we're talking about. Probably in coming out, it's easier...more people might suspect already, if they know the effeminate man already, they won't be as "shocked" because he's "been sort of like that all along". However, life is general may not be easier for the effeminate guys...

Being effeminate may also have the advantage of other gay/bi guys being more comfortable with approaching you to come out to you because they think you might be gay or simply because you're not so ridiculously straight-acting yourself (I personally would be much more nervous about coming out to a very butch straight-acting guy than a sweet, feminine guy...even if he was straight).

 

[Ehalahepl]

I believe they do have it easier, and I will tell you why. For a very long I've repressed a lot of my natural persona and character traits because I feared people thinking I gay and judging me, of course now I'm at the point I dont care anymore.

I have a friend who very effeminate, hes phillipino (im not saying this in bad way, i actually like philipino guys) but we also live in idaho so his race is quite rare here, hes about 5'2" and 180lbs. I swear to you, he gets more sex than anyone I know. Why you ask? Because in my area its rare to see an effeminate guy, and curious bi and closeted gay men confide in him and are curious.

I've been thru all that 'wow I would have never though your gay crap' before and its really frustrating to me. It's also painful to me (personally) to have to tell girls that want to be more than friends that I dont want a relationship with them. If someone is assumed gay they would never have this problem.

One thing I would like to point out is that gay men are perceived a certain way in society, its a stereotype, but it many ways its not a bad thing. Gay men are perceived as being creative and intuitive, and capable of making things beautiful. Where does this lead? Well due to shows like queer eye, what not to wear, project runway..you get the point, it's actually a positive thing to be gay in certain career choices.

Now this isnt to say that straight men cant be creative or artistic, but in all honesty how many hetersexual men do you know that are involved in interior design, fashion, etc.

So once again a naturally effeminate person who is assumed gay can have certain advantages. All this depends of course on your area.

Anyway I'm rambling but had to get that out.

 

[3nipples]

Flamboyantly gay, or rather, effeminate men had to grow up as flamboyantly effeminate boys and I think you grossly underestimate how hard that might have been. Kids are if possible more cruel to each other than grown ups, it is like tolerance for those different does not show up until after puberty.

In the society of grown-ups at large, I think today, in the secular, western world it is possible it is easier for them to just be what they are than for others that easier fit into the straight stereotype. However, I guess most of the time that has been paid for many times before turning 16. RESPECT - they deserve it.

I agree. Remembering back to high school and what the not so masculine guys had to endure from the rest of us makes me ashamed.

 

[StarGuitar]

It's funny because I've been really thinking about this topic over the last few weeks, and lo an behold, here it is on jub. I have so much to say and question about it, maybe it should be another thread.

Most people I meet, I believe, perceive me as straight. Personally, I am not sure that I am "acting" straight. Perhaps I have been so conditioned to acting straight to stay in the closet in high school, that it became more natural to me. Perhaps not. I've never really been effiminate by nature. Hiding my flame was not so tough. I always acted like myself.

It's always been kind of tough for me. Unless you knew me for some time, you wouldn't know right off the bat that I was gay. Along the masc/fem spectrum I might fluctuate from time to time, but more or less in one place...in the middle. I am out of the closet except to my parents. My friends from college know. However in new social situations I always feel awkward. Ever since starting graduate school (where I commute and the social scene is pretty much absent), all of my schoolmates have assumed that I am straight. I know because occasionaly they ask me if this or that girl is hot. One of my girlfriends who I thought knew because I give signals, said something like "when you have a wife..." Now that puts me in a weird situation because I don't just want to blurt out that I'm gay. It totally changes the topic and it just seems out of place. I'm not really close to these people, and I never see them outside of school. We're mostly study buddies and we usually talk about school. Being effeminate might avoid this situation, but it isn't me. Have I crawled back into the closet? Have I sold myself out?

Other times, this has happened at work. I worked at a bank for 1 year, and the entire time, it was assumed I was straight. I never talked about girls, nor guys. I've never figured out how to handle this situation. At another place I worked I told some people I was gay, and one them told everybody. Definitely not cool.

I also just joined a martial arts school a month ago. The guys there are very cool, but they are very testosterone charged masculine types. I like them a lot (not sexually) and would like to be down with them. I highly doubt that any of them suspect me, but I already fear that once I start getting close to them, I will face the same awkward situation.

In a few months I will be starting a new job at a large firm. Again, I also fear the same situation. I don't know what to expect as a gay man in the corporate world.

It feels like being in the middle has its ups and downs. I won't "act" masculine or feminine to fit in, but being in the middle, people will tend to categorize you as straight. I find it so annoying that in this day and age, most people, myself included, will just assume other people are straight. It's like you really have to be effeminate or butch, so other people can more easily pigeon hole you. What do you guys think? I'm sure a lot of you go through these situations daily. How do you handle them? I apologize if I change the direction of this thread, but the topics are so closely related and intertwined.

 

[The_Reaper]

It's a 50/50 situation...

Yes, it's easier to come out when your more effeminate...Because people generally expect effeminate people to be gay.

The problem with that of course is, it also makes them a target in high school and on the streets, and can lead to being ostracized and isolated both in school and out.


Perhaps the worst aspect for effeminate gay guys is the only hostility they're met with within the gay community. I've seen tons of comments (both here and else where) of guys who would refuse to date an effeminate gay guy, or are just plain annoyed by them.

Which just goes to show, that despite the majoirty picking on us...We can still find people within our own groups to belittle....

 

[RicanDAB]

I have found that you can tell a lot by the guy's eyes. Sometimes there is something about their stare that is telling you "I'm GAY, I'm GAY" ... the stare which is almost desperately trying to make some connection with you. That is usually a good indicator, as I have noticed straight guys will not stare at you in that way. Probably the only silent way a masculine gay man will try to communicate without exuding effeminate mannerisms (besides a touch or a note!)

 

[tallguy297]

One thing JUB has taught me so very very quickly is that being gay, coming out, finding love and happiness creates a whole myriad of individual problems and confusions. To say anyone person or group has it easier than another grossly undervalues the issues that they have had to face in dealing with being gay.

Its easy to perceive fem guys having an easier time "coming out" because maybe those around them either knew or at least suspected...but would any of the rest of us trade places with them for the constant harassment, bullying and torment they endured growing up and going to school? Would we swap an easier coming out for the emotional turmoil of being publicly humiliated for something we had no control over at an age where we are forming our values and morals...when we are supposed to be learning how to love ourselves and each other?

And thats based on the very flimsy assumption that their coming out is easier...I suspect it still has huge ramifications for some when they finally admit it.

Alternatively for those who are masc and when they come out to people there is nothing but shock, and the deflated expectations of family and friends to deal with, would we want to swap a life of being looked at in one way, trying to convince yourself of being something that your not, trying to live up to others expectations? Is the "easier" upbringing a fair exchange for a harder coming out? The real difference here is that for masc guys the inner turmoil is usually self inflicted, not initiated by others. The results though...well are they any different?

And then theres the guys who fit somewhere in the middle with a mixture of emotions and turmoils...

The best we can do is to stop thinking that we've got it easier or harder than the rest. Masc, fem or in the middle, all of us have in one way or another are either dealing with or have dealt with the pressure that each of us have when it comes to being gay. They are individual pressures and very real pressures for all of us. We have our own motivations and our own fears. Whether they are bigger or smaller for me or you is irrelevant.

What matters most is the support, care, understanding and compassion we offer each other in dealing with any of the issues that arise in peoples lifetimes. If we can in some small way make it easier for anyone to deal with then thats a huge step in the right direction.

 

[luminum]

Um, that's a good question, actually.

There are a few ways ot think about it.

Int erms of letting others deal with the possibiliy long in advance, it might make the coming out process easier, since family and friends might see the signs and 'prepare' for it.

But another perspective was that this guy in our high school, who was very effeminate, but also 'straight' was upset and annoyed ebcause when he finally did come out to his friends, they already knew. It may seem absurd, but think of it as your moment of deep trust, intimacy, and empowerment being brushed aside because everyone 'already knew' based off of your superficial behavior.

So I guess my opinionw ould be yes and no. Yes, because framily and friends may be prepared and possibly more accepting since they've had that time to mull it over and accept it (though that might not be the case. They may still disapprove.) No, because effeminate gay men usually have their coming out experience deflated.

 

[Just_Believe18]

It is a lot harder for effeminate gays. I can give an example.

I have a good friend. He is a very sweet guy but the poor boy sticks out like a sore thumb in public. He constantly has hecklers because of the way he looks and acts. Just last night he was telling me some guys drove by while he was walking in public and threw a glass bottle at him while swearing obscentities. He sticks out so much even the people he is with are assumed gay. I went to the mall once with him and these punk kids asked if we were both gay or not.

Effeminate guys attract a lot of attention. Its unfortunate people make such a big deal out of it.