On-Topic Edward Snowden: NSA Whistleblower Revealed, Interview

[palbert]

The South China Morning Post (SCMP) this morning (their June 25, 2013) reported:

Snowden sought Booz Allen job to gather evidence on NSA surveillance

For the first time, Snowden has admitted he sought a position at Booz Allen Hamilton so he could collect proof about the US National Security Agency's secret surveillance programmes ahead of planned leaks to the media.

"My position with Booz Allen Hamilton granted me access to lists of machines all over the world the NSA hacked," he told the Post on June 12. "That is why I accepted that position about three months ago."

http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/...oz-allen-job-gather-evidence-nsa-surveillance

I can hear the howls of outrage now.

 

[tigerfan482]

The South China Morning Post (SCMP) this morning (their June 25, 2013) reported:



http://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/...oz-allen-job-gather-evidence-nsa-surveillance

I can hear the howls of outrage now.

Me too. Guy goes out of his way to become a traitor. He had no intentions but to gather secrets to release. And what's best is he still didn't get any evidence of spying on Americans.

 

[Kulindahr]

One of my favourite quotes from 1984:

Winston Smith: Does Big Brother even exist?

O'Brien: Of course he exists.

Winston Smith: No, I mean... does he exist like you or me?

O'Brien: You do not exist.

There was a short story published in one of the libertarian magazines that was spun up from that quote. It still haunts me sometimes, in the way it displayed how many people can be convinced that what the State says is true, regardless of facts staring them in the face.

 

[tigerfan482]

There was a short story published in one of the libertarian magazines that was spun up from that quote. It still haunts me sometimes, in the way it displayed how many people can be convinced that what the State says is true, regardless of facts staring them in the face.

This whole thread is a short story that haunts me showing how many people out there buy into these claims with absolutely no truth or evidence to back up those claims. Those are the real people who are dangerous. It's funny that, despite all of the "facts" you said are staring us in the face, you're unable to produce even one showing any evidence of wrongdoing at all. Most people form logical conclusions based on reasoned fact and hard evidence provided. Then there are some who take some unsubstantiated claims and use those to be the "truth" and "facts" that back up their already preconceived ideas about how something is. Again, I've noticed it's the libertarian bunch that is all up in arms about this idea that the government is spying on all Americans, despite there being no proof, and coincidentally, that just happens to be what they believed before any of this was put into print.

 

[Kulindahr]

This whole thread is a short story that haunts me showing how many people out there buy into these claims with absolutely no truth or evidence to back up those claims. Those are the real people who are dangerous. It's funny that, despite all of the "facts" you said are staring us in the face, you're unable to produce even one showing any evidence of wrongdoing at all. Most people form logical conclusions based on reasoned fact and hard evidence provided. Then there are some who take some unsubstantiated claims and use those to be the "truth" and "facts" that back up their already preconceived ideas about how something is. Again, I've noticed it's the libertarian bunch that is all up in arms about this idea that the government is spying on all Americans, despite there being no proof, and coincidentally, that just happens to be what they believed before any of this was put into print.

Of course libertarians believe government can't be trusted: the record is 100% consistent, that no government can be trusted. The evidence is immense that our own government can't be trusted, and the courts have freely bestowed legitimacy on government behaving in untrustworthy ways.

 

[tigerfan482]

Of course libertarians believe government can't be trusted: the record is 100% consistent, that no government can be trusted. The evidence is immense that our own government can't be trusted, and the courts have freely bestowed legitimacy on government behaving in untrustworthy ways.

Care to state any of the evidence? You've not made a single post yet that contains any of the vast troves you apparently believe exist. You're conspiracy theories about all sectors of the government being out to get the American people are vast and far-reaching, but you have nothing but your own paranoia to back it up. In fact, I would say that the fact that you're on here making these ridiculous accusations and claims and that you haven't been arrested, detained, imprisoned, or killed is evidence that maybe you might be wrong.

These types of ideas without any substantiative proof or any real ideas on how to move forward are why the libertarian party has not gone and will never go anywhere.

 

[kallipolis]

According to the CIA, the United States is a democratic state, so what's wrong with bringing him here to answer for the crimes "he had no intent of hiding from"?

Ecuador is not accusing Mr. Snowden of treason a good reason for him to reside in Ecuador.

 

[kallipolis]

Care to state any of the evidence? You've not made a single post yet that contains any of the vast troves you apparently believe exist. You're conspiracy theories about all sectors of the government being out to get the American people are vast and far-reaching, but you have nothing but your own paranoia to back it up. In fact, I would say that the fact that you're on here making these ridiculous accusations and claims and that you haven't been arrested, detained, imprisoned, or killed is evidence that maybe you might be wrong.

These types of ideas without any substantiative proof or any real ideas on how to move forward are why the libertarian party has not gone and will never go anywhere.

I am sure that the United States government is filled with virtuous people dedicated to serving the well being of the American people, can do no wrong, never lie, never cheat for, all government employees always place the needs of the American people before their own personal and political party interests........now, back to reality to note your repetitive requests for proof of my assertions.

 

[cm98059]

Hmm, Evidence? Proof of Cover ups, Proof of police states? Proof of Federal Employees being found guilty of wrong doing? Try these for starters:

Guantanamo, Watergate, Occupy Wall Street, Iran Contra, Secret Courts Issuing Secret Warrants, When is Manning Scheduled to be placed on trial?,

 

[White Eagle]

^ If you`re so concerned about "Police states" why don't you appear to care that first Assange and now Snowden are seeking refuge in Ecuador?

What makes you think I don't care about them having to go to Ecuador? I have filed my share of emails to my congresscritters over the past 20 or 30 years to make things right. Remember Texas is run by the GOP. None of my politicians care about why they have to go to Ecuador. One person don't make the changes, it is the rest of us that need to ban together.

 

[palbert]

Putin confirmed the presence of Edward Snowden spy in Russia

....
- Mr. Snowden really arrived in Moscow - said Vladimir Putin. - For us it is a complete surprise. He came as a transit passenger, and he does not need a visa. As a transit passenger, he can buy a ticket and fly wherever he wants.

The President stressed that Edward Snowden did not cross the border of Russia, as it is still in the transit hall. Therefore, according to the head of state, an unexpected visitor visa is not necessary and all accusations against our country - the "nonsense and rubbish." Putin said that the Russian secret services have never worked and have no plans to work with former CIA officer.

http://lifenews.ru/news/115534 (Google Translator)

 

[billycollege]

Telling the truth about the USA will get you killed or imprisoned. The propaganda about the USA would make Nazi Germany blush. We are just another "EMPIRE" in a long line of empires that seek to suck dry the weak countries to the benefit of the homeland. All the rest is propaganda and spin. The USA has never been a big supporter of democracy or "the little people". The truth coming out is just another sign of the end times for the USA empire. Whomever gets the keys to the next empire will be no better. Mankind is a dismal failure.

 

[JayHawk]

I am sure that the United States government is filled with virtuous people dedicated to serving the well being of the American people, can do no wrong, never lie, never cheat for, all government employees always place the needs of the American people before their own personal and political party interests........now, back to reality to note your repetitive requests for proof of my assertions.

If Snowden had any original intent of being a human rights advocate he would have stayed and argued quite publicly via our media and courts system. He is not what you all make him out to be.. but it really doesnt matter.

 

[ArseYouLikeIt]

According to information provided by the CIA Ecuador is a democratic state but, I am happy to be corrected if some one has information that indicates otherwise.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ec.html

I`m quite sure you`re happy to quote the CIA on every matter...

 

[Telstra]

If Snowden had any original intent of being a human rights advocate he would have stayed and argued quite publicly via our media and courts system. He is not what you all make him out to be.. but it really doesnt matter.

You can tell that to Manning.
Yes manning can speak to the media.

Noticed i rarely use the "rolleyes" thing LOL

 

[tigerfan482]

I am sure that the United States government is filled with virtuous people dedicated to serving the well being of the American people, can do no wrong, never lie, never cheat for, all government employees always place the needs of the American people before their own personal and political party interests........now, back to reality to note your repetitive requests for proof of my assertions.

Again, lots of generalizations and opinions with no fact at all to back it up. Most of the government is filled with dedicated public servants who work to serve the American people. You seem to b confusing salaried civil servants with elected officials. But then again, it doesn't matter because you again fail the test of having any evidence to back anything up.

Hmm, Evidence? Proof of Cover ups, Proof of police states? Proof of Federal Employees being found guilty of wrong doing? Try these for starters:

Guantanamo, Watergate, Occupy Wall Street, Iran Contra, Secret Courts Issuing Secret Warrants, When is Manning Scheduled to be placed on trial?,

Guantanamo - Where is the cover up, proof of police state, or proof of federal employees being found guilt of wrongdoing? In fact, what is your claim at all about Guantanamo? Who there has ever been convicted of wrongdoing?

Watergate - I think this is more evidence of individual wrongdoing than government wrongdoing, especially since it involved only a handful of people in Nixon's inner circle. But I will agree with you that it shows that individuals can and will do bad things and should be held accountable (which they generally were in this case.)

Occupy Wall Street - See above about Guantanamo. This was a non-government related movement and I don't understand where your claims of government abuse or wrongdoing are even coming from.

Iran Contra - This I will agree with was a poor decision on Reagan's part and it violated some international ban on arms. It was done to secure the release of American hostages in Iran, but do the ends really justify the means? I guess it depends on whether you were one of the hostages or not.

Secret Courts Issuing Warrants - Again, not sure where there is wrongdoing or abuse. The FISC was legally created by Congress under the powers the Constitution grants them to create lower courts. The court was given the power to arbiter and adjudicate cases involving classified material. There is no malfeasance here at all. Just because you don't agree with how something works, doesn't mean it's illegal, that it's a coverup, or that it's an abuse.

When Is Bradley Manning Trial? - It's going on right now. It's in its fourth week. Have they not published that in Libertarian Times? Was there a particular grievance you had here? Keep in mind this guy was an enlisted soldier which affords him a fairly different set of rights under the UCMJ. These are contractually acknowledged and legally binding when a person enters the armed forces.

Anything else you have? I notice this is just a brief list of general complaints Libertarians always have, but as you see, there isn't much substance there in terms of actual illegalities or abuses. Mainly, they just rub you the wrong way so you translate that in your mind as being illegal, abusive, or somehow infringing on your rights.

 

[Kulindahr]

If Snowden had any original intent of being a human rights advocate he would have stayed and argued quite publicly via our media and courts system. He is not what you all make him out to be.. but it really doesnt matter.

As more than a few Soviet dissidents showed, patriotism is sometimes best and most effectively exercised from afar.

 

[tigerfan482]

As more than a few Soviet dissidents showed, patriotism is sometimes best and most effectively exercised from afar.

Wow. The words of a Libertarian coward. This guy has shown not one ounce of patriotism thus far. He did this strictly for his own personal satisfaction (and given that he's been spending a while in both Russia and Hong Kong, possibly monetary gain as well). When he first suspected something, instead of reporting it to the proper channels, he concocted a plan to get a job with Booz Allen and steal secrets. He used lies and deceit to obtain his clearance and position and then abused those. Then, once he found the documents he was looking for, he again shirked the correct channels and decided to run away with not just the documents needed to start a national dialogue, but multiple laptops FULL of information, much of which didn't even relate to the PRISM and Verizon programs and solely revolved around programs we had in the foreign domain. He then ran off to a list of countries that are hostile to the US, spending more than just "transit time" in each. If this guy hasn't purposely sold or given our secrets to hostile governments, then I can bet you they've stolen them from him and then he goes and tries to cower away in Ecuador saying he's afraid the US might be mean to him.

Fuck him and fuck anyone who tries to defend him. This guy is not a hero. This guy is not a patriot. This guy is a lying, dishonorable traitor and I'll be popping a cork when they drone him out of existence. You'll be on here crying about it, but now is his chance to come home and face these charges in a court of law like an American citizen instead of running away like a coward.

 

[Kulindahr]

This guy has shown not one ounce of patriotism thus far. He did this strictly for his own personal satisfaction (and given that he's been spending a while in both Russia and Hong Kong, possibly monetary gain as well). When he first suspected something, instead of reporting it to the proper channels, he concocted a plan to get a job with Booz Allen and steal secrets. He used lies and deceit to obtain his clearance and position and then abused those. Then, once he found the documents he was looking for, he again shirked the correct channels and decided to run away with not just the documents needed to start a national dialogue, but multiple laptops FULL of information, much of which didn't even relate to the PRISM and Verizon programs and solely revolved around programs we had in the foreign domain. He then ran off to a list of countries that are hostile to the US, spending more than just "transit time" in each. If this guy hasn't purposely sold or given our secrets to hostile governments, then I can bet you they've stolen them from him and then he goes and tries to cower away in Ecuador saying he's afraid the US might be mean to him.

Your religion is amusing: you make claims about government which are contradicted thoroughly by history, yet leap to conclusions about people you don't know in the least. You invent your own facts and totally ignore those presented by leaders of the government you worship.

 

[tigerfan482]

Your religion is amusing: you make claims about government which are contradicted thoroughly by history, yet leap to conclusions about people you don't know in the least. You invent your own facts and totally ignore those presented by leaders of the government you worship.

Is this a self-written forward to your autobiography? Sounds like you described yourself perfectly. What facts have I made up? He's admitted that he got his job in order to get the access he needed. He has stated he has several laptops full of data. We have seen the releases he has made to the press about stuff completely unrelated to American citizens' rights (i.e. supposedly hacking into Chinese systems.) These are all from interviews and stories that his mouthpiece The Guardian has printed.

Your denial of facts that are in front of your face is amusing. Instead of presenting any reasoned argument throughout any of this (one thing I will give to palbert who actually goes out and links stuff in his posts), you just come on here, indirectly attack a poster, provide no details or evidence of your own, and then throw in some garbage that is almost completely unrelated to the content of the post. You have nothing to back up your position but your own biases and you know it. You can't post anything to support your position and you know it. No proof exists of any of these claims you make against the government and you know it. What is actually amusing is watching you flop around like a fish out of water addressing everything but the actual topic.