Florida Gay Club PULSE has been attacked with injuries, and possible hostage situation.

[Telstra]

He was talking about public figures like
Reza Aslan (gay) Islamic apologist
Greenwald (gay) ... have not criticize islamic teachings one little bit

Since both are gay,
they might read this forums. Come defend yourself LOL

 

[kallipolis]

Since both are gay,
they might read this forums. Come defend yourself LOL

Originally Posted by Telstra View Post
He was talking about public figures like
Reza Aslan (gay) Islamic apologist
Greenwald (gay) ... have not criticize islamic teachings one little bit

Provide us with a link to their comments alleging support for Mateen's murderous actions.

 

[Telstra]

Provide us with a link to their comments alleging support for Mateen's murderous actions.

Please find the posts that i said that.

 

[KaraBulut]

I did read an article about one republican politician from I believe Utah, that asked for forgiveness from the GLBT community for his past votes and other things he had done.

It was Spencer Cox, the Lt Governor of Utah:

Ladies and Gentlemen,

Thank you for being here tonight on this very solemn and somber occasion. I begin with an admission and an apology. First, I recognize fully that I am a balding, youngish, middle-aged straight, white, male, Republican, politician… with all of the expectations and privileges that come with those labels. I am probably not who you expected to hear from today.

I’m here because, yesterday morning, 49 Americans were brutally murdered. And it made me sad. And it made me angry. And it made me confused. I’m here because those 49 people were gay. I’m here because it shouldn’t matter. But I’m here because it does. I am not here to tell you that I know exactly what you are going through. I am not here to tell you that I feel your pain. I don’t pretend to know the depths of what you are feeling right now. But I do know what it feels like to be scared. And I do know what it feels like to be sad. And I do know what it feels like to be rejected. And, more importantly, I know what it feels like to be loved.

I grew up in a small town and went to a small rural high school. There were some kids in my class that were different. Sometimes I wasn’t kind to them. I didn’t know it at the time, but I know now that they were gay. I will forever regret not treating them with the kindness, dignity and respect — the love — that they deserved. For that, I sincerely and humbly apologize.

Over the intervening years, my heart has changed. It has changed because of you. It has changed because I have gotten to know many of you. You have been patient with me. You helped me learn the right letters of the alphabet in the right order even though you keep adding new ones. You have been kind to me. Jim Dabakis even told me I dressed nice once, even though I know he was lying. You have treated me with the kindness, dignity, and respect — the love — that I very often did NOT deserve. And it has made me love you.

But now we are here. We are here because 49 beautiful, amazing people are gone. These are not just statistics. These were individuals. These are human beings. They each have a story. They each had dreams, goals, talents, friends, family. They are you and they are me. And one night they went out to relax, to laugh, to connect, to forget, to remember. And in a few minutes of chaos and terror, they were gone.

I believe that we can all agree we have come a long way as a society when it comes to our acceptance and understanding of the LGBTQ community (did I get that right?). However, there has been something about this tragedy that has very much troubled me. I believe that there is a question, two questions actually, that each of us needs to ask ourselves in our heart of hearts. And I am speaking now to the straight community. How did you feel when you heard that 49 people had been gunned down by a self-proclaimed terrorist? That’s the easy question. Here is the hard one: Did that feeling change when you found out the shooting was at a gay bar at 2 a.m. in the morning? If that feeling changed, then we are doing something wrong.

So now we find ourselves at a crossroads. A crossroads of hate and terror. How do we respond? How do you respond? Do we lash out with anger, hate and mistrust. Or do we, as Lincoln begged, appeal to the “better angels of our nature?”

Usually when tragedy occurs, we see our nation come together. I was saddened, yesterday to see far too many retreating to their over-worn policy corners and demagoguery. Let me be clear, there are no simple policy answers to this tragedy. Beware of anyone who tells you that they have the easy solution. It doesn’t exist. And I can assure you this — that calling people idiots, communists, fascists or bigots on Facebook is not going to change any hearts or minds. Today we need fewer Republicans and fewer Democrats. Today we need more Americans.

But just because an easy solution doesn’t exist, doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try. The greatest generations in the history of the world were never innately great. They became great because of how they responded in the face of evil. Their humanity is measured by their response to hate and terror.

I truly believe that this is the defining issue of our generation. Can we be brave? Can we be strong? Can we be kind and, perhaps, even happy, in the face of atrocious acts of hate and terrorism? Do we find a way to unite? Or do these atrocities further corrode and divide our torn nation? Can we, the citizens of the great state of Utah, lead the nation with love in the face of adversity? Can WE become a greatest generation?

I promise we can. But I also promise it will never happen if we leave it to the politicians. Ultimately, there is only one way for us to come together. It must happen at a personal level. We must learn to truly love one another.

The Prophet Muhammad is reported to have said: “You will not enter paradise until you believe, and you will not believe until you love one another.”

Jesus said, “Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you and persecute you.”

Now, you know a little something about hate. And you know a little something about persecution. But you also know something about loving, blessing and doing good. What our country needs more than ever is less politics and more kindness. If nothing else, as we can see here tonight, this tragedy has the potential to bring us closer than ever before.

And so may we leave today, with a resolve to be a little kinder. May we try to listen more and talk less. May we forgive someone that has wronged us. And perhaps, most importantly, try to love someone that is different than us. For my straight friends, might I suggest starting with someone who is gay.

I leave you with the words of Lyndon B. Johnson. They were spoken at another very sad time in our history, the death of President John F. Kennedy. He said this:

“Our enemies have always made the same mistake. In my lifetime — in depression and in war — they have awaited our defeat. Each time, from the secret places of the American heart, came forth the faith they could not see or that they could not even imagine. It brought us victory. And it will again. For this is what America is all about.”

On behalf of the 3 million people of the state of Utah, We Are Orlando. We love you. And I love you.”

 

[gsdx]

It was Spencer Cox, the Lt Governor of Utah:

Wonderful speech, and thank you for posting the transcript.

I do hope he doesn't face any backlash from the party or the people.

 

[kallipolis]

Please find the posts that i said that.

Here's the flow of posts that should refresh your mind:

Another thing that's upsetting is that the community that got attacked is defending the attacker.

^Really? This i have not heard.

He was talking about public figures like
Reza Aslan (gay) Islamic apologist
Greenwald (gay) ... have not criticize islamic teachings one little bit

Continuity speaks clearly that which you implied.

 

[Telstra]

Well,
i assumed SaskGuy was talking about islamic apologists in general and i named two apologists.

 

[kallipolis]

Well,
i assumed SaskGuy was talking about islamic apologists in general and i named two apologists.

The implication of SaskGuy's post is clear. You followed suit.

We still lack the reference that we may assess the remarks made by Reza Aslan, and Glenn Geenwald.

 

[jbrown329]

I did read an article about one republican politician from I believe Utah, that asked for forgiveness from the GLBT community for his past votes and other things he had done.

It was the Lieutenant Governor of Utah.

In a moving, tearful speech, Utah's lieutenant governor apologized for past homophobia
At a Monday vigil in Salt Lake City for the victims of the Orlando shooting, Utah Lt. Gov. Spencer Cox gave a moving, tearful speech apologizing to the LGBTQ community for treating them poorly in his early life, and expressing gratitude to them for helping him realize the error of his ways. Vox

 

[rareboy]

^ See post 268

 

[jbrown329]

^ See post 268

I was on the previous page when I posted so I hadn't seen 268 yet.

I posted this in the split thread but think it got lost. So I'm reposting it here.

Exclusive: Song pays tribute to Pulse victims
In a Last Word exclusive, co-writers/singers Brandon Skeie and Eli Lieb share their song “Pulse” with MSNBC's Lawrence O'Donnell in remembrance of the 49 victims of the Orlando attack. Duration: 9:06
http://www.msnbc.com/the-last-word/watch/exclusive-song-pays-tribute-to-pulse-victims-706503747547

 

[medic1]

G and i attended an open air vigil in St Andrews Square to remember and to show solidarity to all affected by this atrocity.

I have to say it was very moving to see so many families there, many holding placards saying "that could have been our child".

 

[mydrew1]

^ It was so easy to predict.

Showing an absolute lack of empathy or sense of the moment, Trump just exploited the occasion to gin up his base.

At least some people called him out on his tweets, but this type of event is just what he was praying for.

It appears to have backfired. I hope so;

http://www.bloomberg.com/view/artic...leaders-cower-as-trump-burns-down-their-party

Republican Leaders Cower as Trump Burns Down Their Party

 

[xbuzzerx]

Mateen's actions have much more do with his self loathing, as a gay man, than any religious association. His mental health is also a matter for debate recognising that he was a gay bar regular, and a wife beater.

This.

The only role Islam seems to have played is in providing a conservative religious backdrop against which the self-loathing was nurtured. It was incidental whether he was raised conservatively Muslim or conservatively Christian. We have plenty of gay Americans raised in conservative Christian backgrounds who also actively express their self loathing through violent or destructive efforts against other gay Americans in society, both at the individual and policy level.

It is not about any need to "defend Islam." It's about the desperate need of some to take any and all such occurrences IF anyone involved is Muslim or from a Muslim background, and paint a picture where this is something special and exclusive and unique to the evils of Islam.

Since I know full well none of the people here harping about Islam were attaching responsibility of the violence at Sandy Hook to single mothers, or the Dylan Hook shooting of black churches (where he posted online that God had chosen him to start the race war to save whites and exterminate blacks) to white people or Christianity, good luck flailing about accusing others of hypocrisy.

 

[eastofeden]

Buzzer...I do think Islam played an indirect but important role in this..courtesy of his overbearing father who definitely had an effect on him.

I have seen this with Christians all my life. The kid is fucked up forever by the zealot parents and never really gets out from under it....and it can turn out badly for the child and anyone who comes in contact with him...or her.

The parents rarely take any responsibility for the mess they made. Prayers for Bobby is a true story of one who did....and it illustrates the problem I am referring to quite well.

While it is true some children do manage to make a clean break..others never really have the tools.

Even those of us who are not religious...religion plays a role in our lives as well.....like it or not..... ESPECIALLY as a gay person.

I do think he had internalized homophobia and it was part of the problem..but then again..internalized homophobia is also the result of religion.

I don't really see him as a "terrorist" as much as a fucked up asshole.....though he would have been easy to recruit.

 

[xbuzzerx]

Buzzer...I do think Islam played an indirect but important role in this..courtesy of his overbearing father who definitely had an effect on him.

It did absolutely. Islam is, particularly with regards to homosexuality, a conservative religion. Much like Christianity.

The already predetermined conclusion that the usual lineup of people had that "of course" it was because of Islam specifically, that this is exactly what we expect specifically of Islam, and that all the rest of us are stupid or denying the obvious or "being P.C." or whatever else because we won't all hop on board and pretend this can't and doesn't happen with any other religious upbringing (particularly Christians and Fundamentalist Christians) or influence is what I'm addressing. Dylan Roof, for example, apparently didn't happen. Or in that case it had nothing to do with the religion and only had to do with mental instability, I suppose we're all supposed to accept. Even though he didn't make a sudden last minute ploy to tie himself to a Christian motivation... he'd been saying it for years in his own words online that God wanted whites to do this.

The double standard is pretty clear. Acknowledging or calling out the double standard is more than sufficient to get accused of defending Islam.

 

[kallipolis]

Buzzer...I do think Islam played an indirect but important role in this..courtesy of his overbearing father who definitely had an effect on him.

I have seen this with Christians all my life. The kid is fucked up forever by the zealot parents and never really gets out from under it....and it can turn out badly for the child and anyone who comes in contact with him...or her.

The parents rarely take any responsibility for the mess they made. Prayers for Bobby is a true story of one who did....and it illustrates the problem I am referring to quite well.

While it is true some children do manage to make a clean break..others never really have the tools.

Even those of us who are not religious...religion plays a role in our lives as well.....like it or not..... ESPECIALLY as a gay person.

I do think he had internalized homophobia and it was part of the problem..but then again..internalized homophobia is also the result of religion.

I don't really see him as a "terrorist" as much as a fucked up asshole.....though he would have been easy to recruit.

In my profession facts are the deciding factor.

Mateen's first wife was clear when telling the world that Mateen was not religious.

If, apart from your well exhibited feelings on religion, you can provide us with substantial evidence that Mateen was a religious practitioner, or religious fanatic I would be pleased to hear from you.

 

[eastofeden]

It did absolutely. Islam is, particularly with regards to homosexuality, a conservative religion. Much like Christianity.

The already predetermined conclusion that the usual lineup of people had that "of course" it was because of Islam specifically, that this is exactly what we expect specifically of Islam, and that all the rest of us are stupid or denying the obvious or "being P.C." or whatever else because we won't all hop on board and pretend this can't and doesn't happen with any other religious upbringing (particularly Christians and Fundamentalist Christians) or influence is what I'm addressing. Dylan Roof, for example, apparently didn't happen. Or in that case it had nothing to do with the religion and only had to do with mental instability, I suppose we're all supposed to accept. Even though he didn't make a sudden last minute ploy to tie himself to a Christian motivation... he'd been saying it for years in his own words online that God wanted whites to do this.

The double standard is pretty clear. Acknowledging or calling out the double standard is more than sufficient to get accused of defending Islam.

I am glad you made that point about the double standard. You are right....and the same people who hold Islam accountable rarely if ever say anything about Christians.....

You are probably the only person in the Internet world that knows what my actual spirituality is...assuming you remember our private conversations a few years ago....

I am not anti-Islam..I am anti anyone who uses whatever God they believe in to condemn or bash or diminish anyone else. I don't give a damn what passage is in any book....it does not excuse anything. Too many hateful people pretend it is about God when it is just about them and they use religion as a tool and unfortunately...it is an accepted and effective tool because enough people have validated it as such.....

 

[eastofeden]

In my profession facts are the deciding factor.

Mateen's first wife was clear when telling the world that Mateen was not religious.

If, apart from your well exhibited feelings on religion, you can provide us with substantial evidence that Mateen was a religious practitioner, or religious fanatic I would be pleased to hear from you.

The facts are that he called and pledged allegiance to ISIS...

The facts are his father is an overbearing religious controlling misogynist asswipe.....and the facts are he definitely played a major role in his son's demise

Even with those facts....I do NOT think he is an Islamist Terrorist nor do I think Muslims are any more likely to be terrorists than anyone else. I do think people who have internal conflicts and a lot of hate got a lot of it from religion....and his religion and father had an effect on him...directly and indirectly....

As for my "clear" view of religion...I will repost my ACTUAL views...what I wrote when Telstra asked the question last year:

I added one thing in bold to make myself even clearer.....

Yes...I believe in God. Why? I can feel God....

I don't know what she/he/it looks like...I dont' care. I used to get a lot of comfort and strength from God when I was a kid and I felt God helped me protect myself from my parents...

No one ever told me to believe in God...and certainly most Christians have been the WORST advertisement for God..same with most Muslims....I have no idea who they are talking about because the God I believe in is QUITE DIFFERENT...a lot kinder..a lot cooler...a lot nicer....a lot more comforting...a lot wiser...

None of this sin bullshit or stupid fucking rules or fairy tales or fear to keep me living a soulless life....

My beliefs are closest to Pagan, Wiccan, Taoism, Buddhist.....

I resent some Christians who get in my face trying to define God...or define me. I think they are a dark force on earth...and very young souls....

I have seen a lot of cool old soul Christians AND MUSLIMS who are usually liberal...respect Jesus and practice the things he taught..and have none of the lower natured bullshit of the loud obnoxious ones. I usually find their interpretation of God close to my own...the vibe is the same...
__________________________________________________________________________________________________

As for Mateen's Father and his influence...I read about him and he DEFINITELY had an effect on his son

http://heavy.com/news/2016/06/mir-s...nistan-orlando-mass-shooting-family-reaction/

An excerpt:

In the video below, Seddique says he does not believe his son is “whatever you call it,” meaning gay. Homosexuality is very much against his religion, and what he says about it could greatly impact his hopes to become the next President of Afghanistan.

 

[kallipolis]

The CIA has confirmed that Mateen had no link with IS, despite IS desperately attempting to persuade us that he did.

The father's 15 minutes of fame before the TV cameras told us nothing more than we already know; that he needed his few minutes of fame to feel better. There is no link between Mateen's father and Islamic States. That the father has expressed his wish to become the next president of Afghanistan does evidence that insanity runs in the family.

A detective might well say that Mateen's actions had everything to do with his own feelings of failure, and inadequacy.

The rest of your contribution is speculation, that you are entitled to express here.