Friendlyness vs Honesty, and the english language

[Corny]

I once met a girl from wyoming at a rock festival here, we were standing in line to get into the front area. After a bit smalltalk, we reached the topic about cheering on concerts and on this festival. She asked me why so many people came here if they don't really like the bands, and if it is possible that they are just all waiting for the headliner? I was confused. How could she think that anybody here NOT likes the band? Well .. the frenetic applause wasn't enough for her definition of "liking" if you like a band you have to go all nuts and scream around, bang your head against the barriers etc, and after the next song she showed me, and i was almost deaf after that.
That got me somehow thinking, and over the past years, I made a few observations:

If you ask a friend here "How do you like my shirt" and he doesn't like it, he will tell you "I prefer your other shirt" or even more plain "The shirt sucks".
If you ask an english native speaker (yes i know, i am throwing the brits, canadians and americans in one pot here, but in my experience they behave very similar on that topic!) he will more likely say something distracting like "I think green fits better to your eyes!".
English people often even can't directly say "no". It has to be wrapped up in gentle words, which often gets missinterpreted as a weak or shy "yes".
"I'm wondering if we should take some more time" in reality means: "Oh my god, this is anything but good, you need to completely rework it". If you would tell them just "We need to rework this, you're working into the wrong direction." they would think you are totally rude - when you're just being honest.

And on the opposite, so that you can distinguish between fake and real happyness about something, they need to at least double their excitement when they really like something.
If you ask someone how he liked your country, there is an almost 99% chance that he will say "It was fantastic, i really enjoyed my stay". Which means .. "I'm glad I am leaving tomorrow". But if he really liked it he will say "It was FANTASTIC, totally AWESOME, i'd love to stay SO much longer" exaggerating as much as possible, so that you tend to give him a weird look and think that he might be making fun of you - but he needs all those exaggerations so that you can decide between a lied positive reaction and an honest (yet exaggerated) positive reaction. But who needs positive lies? If you spent some time in a country, I expect that you didn't see only good things. That you might be missing somethings from your homeland, that you also have seen some bad things that made you wonder or think. If I ask for your opinion I don't want to get my ego stroked as much as possible no matter what you really think. I ask for an honest, reflected opinion. I think many people are already that much used to politely lie, that they don't even notice the difference. If someone isn't totally exaggerating they must think he hates them!

 

[Andreus]

I definitely agree

I come from a culture that values honesty over forced or fake kindness. To me kindness is telling a friend an uncomfortable truth so that they wont hear it from someone who doesn't like them and will be more cruel, as well as complimenting them when I notice something positive.

Often times here at JUB my sincere efforts to just be honesst with a friend have been misinterpreted as an attack. I tell my friends that when I am angry, there's not really any denying it. Its really obvious. If I am just being contrary, chances are i'm choosing to be more honest than polite.

It's really an odd tradition to think that false flattery is being polite, yet that is what is expected.

The sayings are..." if you don't have anything nice to say then don't say anything at all" or " try to find the good in everything"

Now heres the true benefit...

People know that when I compliment someone, it is honest. It means that I have really thought about it and I really do think positive things, as oposed to just fulfilling some sort of cultural expectation of politeness. people in my life tend to value my compliments more than they value other peoples compliments.

Great thread, Corny !!

edit: I also want to add that there are ways of saying honest yet disagreeable things without being bullying or abusive.

agreement and politeness are not easily separated by english culture... and that is odd.

 

[NameTaken]

Yeah, the paralanguage seems more important than the actual words most of the time.

 

[Nonimus]

I love this idea of being 'brutally kind'.

I may try that out on fellow Jubbers (and Jubbettes, of course) and see how it goes.

Now that's my kinda post!

 

[Nonimus]

And even though you manually handle house-spiders and allow rodents to roam free in your habitat you big fucking freak o nature - i love you too, hood and all.

 

[Andreus]

its just so moving

i may weap tears of joy

 

[irish1]

Staying on topic: As an American, I was encouraged to be strong, but subtle in my criticism of events, philosophies, etc....

I was discouraged from making any negative comments about others.

I have been told that I am "obnoxious" and "too subtle"; so which is it?!?!

I am an honest person. I answer questions with kindness and am polite, but also will not answer questions that are private (in my mind) or those that may compromise others (i.e.: What do you think of so-and-so?, or What do you think of what so-and-so said?).

There are times when it is important to be discrete, and times when being as forceful as a Mack truck makes sense.

Honesty is the best policy, coupled with kindness and discretion, when necessary.

 

[Nonimus]

Staying on topic: As an American, I was encouraged to be strong, but subtle in my criticism of events, philosophies, etc....

I was discouraged from making any negative comments about others.

I have been told that I am "obnoxious" and "too subtle"; so which is it?!?!

I am an honest person. I answer questions with kindness and am polite, but also will not answer questions that are private (in my mind) or those that may compromise others (i.e.: What do you think of so-and-so?, or What do you think of what so-and-so said?).

There are times when it is important to be discrete, and times when being as forceful as a Mack truck makes sense.

Honesty is the best policy, coupled with kindness and discretion, when necessary.

You said it Plato!

 

[Nonimus]

Accusations of beastiality and straw stuffed, head-swapping scruff bags is 'freindly'????

 

[Nonimus]

I wouldn't expect a person of Welsh extraction, especially a chav, to understand the concept of 'friendly'.

Ok, ok - please don't send me away Mr Crowman sir - i's bee a good scarecrow!

 

[buzzj]

I love this idea of being 'brutally kind'.

I may try that out on fellow Jubbers (and Jubbettes, of course) and see how it goes.

This could be the start of an important new trend!!

 

[irish1]

My neighbor, who has an exquistely manicured lawn and shrubbery, once again pruned my English ivy that is on my yard, but not pruned-to-his-standards-of perfection.

I think he is a total asshole.

No, that it too honest. Perhaps I should have said that he is an asshole.

Yes, that's much better; discretion is my trademark.

 

[Fire]

Great thread. I've thought about this before but I could never really put it into words, but you're totally right. I've always said that JUB sorely lacks interesting threads and then along comes Corny, changing my expectations. Figures haha. I just got home from some mindless drudgery and I was thinking to myself, "I could really go for a thought-provoking thread right about now," and lo and behold, here it is. Are you psychic? Honestly, it's like you knew exactly what I wanted to read today and posted it.

 

[Nonimus]

Great thread. I've thought about this before but I could never really put it into words, but you're totally right. I've always said that JUB sorely lacks interesting threads and then along comes Corny, changing my expectations. Figures haha. I just got home from some mindless drudgery and I was thinking to myself, "I could really go for a thought-provoking thread right about now," and lo and behold, here it is. Are you psychic? Honestly, it's like you knew exactly what I wanted to read today and posted it.

Yeah, nichten Bad for a guy that lives in the Fatherland!

 

[james1200]

i think things may be a little different in the southern states...there's a veneer of politeness down there...i haven't found us new englanders and especially new yorkers to be bullshitters at all though...if we think your shirt sucks, we'll tell you. at least i will.

 

[slobone]

I've always thought that most of the Brits* here on JUB tend to be brutally honest; it seems more of a US thing to use false flattery and insincere compliments in an effort to appear polite.

I prefer it when people are honest, even if at times it comes across as a bit blunt, or even rude.


*and other Europeans, plus Ozzies, Canadians, etc, etc.

Yes, I was going to say in my experience the Brits do tend to be on the "cut through the bullshit" side. Haven't known enough Aussies to judge, and Canadians of course are the same as Americans.

 

[Corny]

you can still be honest without insulting someone. i would say "sorry, but i don't like your grand child". and it would be clear that it isn't you that i don't like, but your grand child

 

[just_mills]

You could just be well rude, innit
I hate you all. Fuck off. Ban me.

 

[TriBi]

Hmmm...I think I know what Corny is talking about.

I don't do bullshit (in real life)...well...most Aussies don't...

Maybe that's part of the reason why I don't post on the open Forums as much as I used to...

"Held to a higher standard" and all that...

can't always say what I'd really like to...

 

[Corny]

well that is exactly what i said . here it wouldn't be nice, but also not rude. over there - as you said yourfelf - it would be rude.
that's basically what i pointed out ..