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How much power and influence do the Christian far right have in America?

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I just saw the Jesus Camp thread and personally I wasn't really shocked by it. However it has caused me to question how much power do the Christian far right have in America? I heard that they have contacts, mainly the Republicans, in the White House and they're pretty popular in the south. I wonder what percentage of the votes they would account for in the presidential elections? It'll be interesting to see everyone's views on this.
 
It must be pretty powerful. It even extends into Canada when they don't agree with something our government is doing.
 
I can't quantify it--- but they have way, way, way too much power and influence!
 
"Contacts" in the White House? They're IN the White House! Bush is very much a devout born-again Christian and believes that the End Times are here now. Reagan believed the same thing. Talk about a self-fulfilling prophecy....

And our beloved former Attorney General Ashcroft had himself anointed with holy oil in a private ceremony just before taking the oath of office.
 
i agree they have yoo much power already. I hate religious devot eho can kill for their faith. whatever they believes are. As far as I am concerned, war have always begun with fanatics. Give peace a chance
 
source..MSNBC.com



Judge backs Ten Commandments monument


Brandi Simons / AP file
People walk past a monument of the Ten Commandments located on the grounds of the Haskell County courthouse in Stigler, Okla., in an April 2006 file photo.

sourceAP.gif
Updated: 11:01 a.m. ET Aug 19, 2006


OKLAHOMA CITY - A federal judge on Friday said a Ten Commandments monument outside a courthouse can stay, rejecting arguments that it promotes Christianity at the expense of other religions.
U.S. District Judge Ronald A. White in Muskogee ruled that Haskell County did not violate the Constitution by erecting the monument.

.....

Micheal Salem, an attorney representing the American Civil Liberties Union and Stigler resident James W. Green, said he thought "the court's decision really represents a loss for religious freedom." He said he would have to thoroughly review White's decision before deciding whether to appeal.
The U.S. Supreme Court has ruled that religious displays on government property are not inherently unconstitutional.


and...

Source... Christianlaw.org




..
Why Judges Must Promote a Christian America

Whether America thrives or flounders in the 21st Century could primarily depend upon who wins the battle for the courts in this generation. Will it be those judges who remember our Biblical roots or those who want to replace them with secular substitutes?


For 150 years after the Declaration of Independence proclaimed America’s freedom from England, our leaders universally recognized the Biblical foundations that undergirded our nation’s legal system. President Abraham Lincoln, who emancipated the slaves after the Civil War, still rightly understood in the mid-19th Century that God alone was the grantor of America’s rights. He understood that the Almighty had given these rights to every person in all times and in all places, including those African slaves who had been brought to America against their will.

.....

Prior to 1900, American lawyers all studied the law using a book by William Blackstone called Commentaries on English Common Law. The first 140 pages of this book outlined the Biblical principles that controlled both British and American common law. America’s Founders used Blackstone’s principles to undergird a new legal system in their emerging nation. In fact, Blackstone’s four-volume Commentaries, published a decade before the Declaration of Independence in 1776, became more popular in America than in England. America was a blank slate for formulating a new legal system based entirely on the principles of the Bible.

....

When they have a matter, they come unto me; and I judge between one and another, and I do make them know the statutes of God, and his laws. --EXODUS 18:16

One of the surest measures of a man are the words by which he lives. Patrick Henry, one of the Founding Fathers, understood the clear need for a Biblical Foundation to establish firm footing for a fledgling republic. His passion for liberty is unrivaled in America's history.


It is clear from an objective reading of our founding documents that the language of Thomas Jefferson in the Declaration of Independence, of James Madison in the Constitution, and of the original constitutions of all thirteen colonies prior to 1776 mirrored the language used by William Blackstone. His Commentaries were published in the 1760s, just in time for the American experiment in freedom. These Commentaries sold more copies in America than in England, where the law was already moving away from these Biblical moorings.

Blackstone’s Commentaries outlined the development of English common law, which began as far back as 1000 A.D. When Jesus did not return at the first millennium as many expected, the church had to reorient itself toward discovering how societies could best live together in this world. Medieval thinkers began formulating a political and legal system for the long haul, first using canon (church) law and then developing common (civil) law from that religious legal base.

These deeply religious thinkers recognized that the Bible contains a double revelation of God—a revelation of faith to guide us in our relationship to God, and also a revelation of morals to guide us in our relationship to others in society. This legal compilation of God’s fixed, uniform, and universal moral laws governing all societies in all times and in all places occurred over a period of several hundred years. It was this civic or common law that Blackstone finally wrote down in his Commentaries, complete with Scripture references on almost every page. And it was this book that inspired America’s Founders and educated every generation of lawyers and judges in America.


First and foremost, Blackstone, the Founders, and all early American lawyers and judges recognized that God had created humanity for Himself. Therefore, all people were entirely dependent, not only on the physical laws of the universe, but also on equally applicable moral laws. God’s moral laws are as immutable and fixed as the laws of gravity and physics, said Blackstone.
Following these moral laws in society, Blackstone said, was essential for the happiness of citizens. This was the basis for the “pursuit of happiness” language in the Declaration of Independence. All citizens had also been given life (personal security) and liberty (personal freedom) as part of the image of God bestowed upon Adam and Eve, but clouded by sin at the Fall. If sin had not entered the world, Blackstone noted, Adam and Eve could have discerned the moral laws (natural law) of the universe in the same way that scientists can discover the physical laws set in motion by God. But because sin entered the world in the Fall, God was obligated to supplement His natural law (referred to as “the law of Nature” in the Declaration of Independence) with an additional written revelation in the Bible (“the law of . . . Nature’s God” in the Declaration).

Thus equipped with a conscience (though fallen) and with the written Bible, citizens can discern the moral principles of government that best lead to the happiness of all human societies. The “pursuit of happiness” enshrined in the Declaration of Independence was a phrase recognizing that mankind’s happiness depends on a right understanding and implementation in society of the fixed, immutable, and unchanging moral laws of God. No law enacted by man, Blackstone said, is legitimate unless it reflects the moral law of God revealed in the Bible. That is the primary reason, for instance, why murder, adultery, theft, and lying are wrong. These basic principles are found in the Ten Commandments—the basis for both Biblical faith and American law.
All governments, Blackstone said, must be grounded in God’s moral revelation in order to function properly. Therefore, all societies must be based on God’s foundational principle of families, beginning with one man and one woman united for life. That Biblical revelation is the real reason why homosexual marriage is wrong for all societies. It is also the primary reason why today’s homosexual advocates and many judges who support this movement are so intent on simultaneously undermining the Biblical basis for law in America through an invented legal principle of “separation of church and state,” which was first imposed on America in a 1947 United States Supreme Court decision.


Abraham Lincoln campaigned for the Presidency on the premise that the moral law of God and the inherent equality of man invalidated the Supreme Court's decision to uphold slavery in the Dred Scott case. His stand for Biblical morality as the foundation of law ultimately led to passage of the 14th Amendment in 1866, designed to grant citizenship to and protect the civil liberties of recently freed slaves.

The Supreme Court’s support of abortion in 1973 is illegitimate for the same reason. Supreme Court justices do not have the authority to contradict God’s moral code and call it law. The erroneous legal reasoning in Roe v. Wade, as well as in other recent Supreme Court rulings on homosexuality and other moral issues, is merely the logical conclusion of an evolving secular legal philosophy that began heading down the wrong road in 1872 when Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr. first declared the death of God in the legal world.
The Founders declared the principle of equality in the Declaration of Independence, based on the God who created us all. Abraham Lincoln still recognized America’s foundation in the moral law of God when he declared in his 1859 Presidential campaign that slavery and the Supreme Court’s decision upholding it in the Dred Scott case were not law because they contradicted the moral law of God. The Fourteenth Amendment, passed after the Civil War, recognized that all men, whatever their ethnicity, truly are imbued with the image of God and are, therefore, all guaranteed the rights of life (personal security), liberty (to perform their duties to God) and the pursuit of happiness (the freedom to conform to God’s laws which was recognized as the only path to true happiness). Some legal commentators have noted that the third inalienable right (the pursuit of happiness) also involves the right to own property, another foundational right recognized in the constitutions of all the original thirteen colonies. In no case, however, did the pursuit of happiness ever imply the licentiousness that characterizes its understanding in modern American law.

William Blackstone and America’s Founders recognized that these three rights (life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness) are inalienable because they are part of the image of God, which is given to everyone at Creation. Therefore, like the legal concept of inalienable property, citizens are not able to sell, give away, or otherwise divest themselves of these rights. These rights are a foundational part of what it means to be a human being created in the image of God. These rights are merely recognized, not bestowed, by government.


Do not forget... in america, you swear on the bible in court and you are sentenced to a penitentiary.

The etymology of the word penitentiary is a purely american developement, as law breakers were put in a meditation room (a cell) and told to spend a term of time there meditating on their penitence (paying for your sins)
 
You swear on a bible here in the UK to.

Court: Raise your right hand please Mr Lillie. Place your left on the bible in front of you.

Court: Do you promise to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth?

Me: I do.

I know this first hand after i was there on my DUI charge last december.

Ah, but in the UK it's harmless because nobody there actually believes in God, even the ones who go to church.

Although come to think of it, that ought to make the oath a little dubious, oughtn't it?
 
The short answer: Too much

The long answer: Way too much
 
Didn't the founding fathers try to prevent the joining of church and federal government when they set up the Constitution? I'm sorry but my knowledge of American history is limited to the Civil War.
 
Didn't the founding fathers try to prevent the joining of church and federal government when they set up the Constitution? I'm sorry but my knowledge of American history is limited to the Civil War.

You are correct, Sir. But the Christian Right tries to say that the founding fathers were Christians & they REALLY didn't mean to seperate church & state.

Funny how the far right constantly accuse the left of "interpreting" documents when it is in fact (true to hypocritical form), they who "interpret" & twist the truth to fit "their" ideals.
 
](*,) ](*,)

If the majority of the American public would get off their asses, we would find that in numbers, these people represent but a small minority.

But by sitting back and letting them be the focus of attention these past five years, they have allowed them a voice and a sense of power that belittles who and how many of them there really are.

The apathy of the vast number of Americans on this entire issue is as disgusting as are the percentages of people who are actually going out to vote in national elections.

The majority of American voters could silence these condescending no-it-alls that are leading them around by their tails if they would speak out (and get out and vote) instead of sitting in front of the t.v.'s, going to the gym, buying a 5000 sq. ft. house they do not need, and driving in an suv for no reason at all.

All the christian right has to do is see that a gay marriage issue is on the ballot and then their numbers get out the vote while the quasi liberal majority just sit back on election day, not willing to put their votes where their mouths are.

About a month from now we will see just what the American voter is or is not thinking and if he/she display their voting habits of the recent past, then they get what they deserve. They will have no one else to blame but themselve and their
Apathetic behaviour for what comes next until the 2008 election.

They have a chance to speak up now and be heard, let's see if they have the guts to do so and send a message to these minority fanatics that are leading us/we/them around like a bunch of idiots.

A COMMMENTARY - per the voice of the local village idiot, who would like to see them where they belong, at the bottom of the pile of cast ballots after the election.


:grrr: :grrr: #-o #-o

eM.:(
 
They probably have less power than one might think, given the current political command of the Republicans--which is made up of an alliance between the Christian right and the corporate conservatives. For now, their ideologies match, and the latter group is only too happy to hide in the shadow of the former's image. (What company wouldn't rather say "We're a happy Christian institution" than "We're bent on being at the top of imperialism"?)

However, the Christian right's ideology is indeed distinct from that of the fiscal right's power. The corporate neo-cons care little about abortion or gay rights, and the fundamentalists are not strongly tied to immigration or trade policy. Eventually, if those two ideologies clash, a rift could really curb the power of both groups. And I think we'll see that the corporate sect of the right winds up with far more power than the born-agains.
 
Didn't the founding fathers try to prevent the joining of church and federal government when they set up the Constitution?

Well, there's a technicality here, which is that the clause about separation of church and state is part of the First Amendment, not of the original constitution. Although it was adopted very shortly afterwards, as soon as Jefferson got back from Europe basically.

The relevant clause reads:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof

Most people agree that the 14th amendment extends "Congress" to include any branch of government at any level, although god only knows what the Scalia/Bork wing think. There is considerable debate to the present day about what is included under "establishment of religion."

The part that everybody agrees about is that the US can't officially establish one denomination in preference to others, like the Anglican church in England. The question is whether any mention at all of religious concepts by the government is allowed.

We still have In God We Trust on our coins, for example, and "under God" in the Pledge of Allegiance. The current hot button issue is whether the Ten Commandments can be displayed on public property.

I'm sorry but my knowledge of American history is limited to the Civil War.

What a coincidence! I was quite fascinated by the English Civil War until I found out that "Rump Parliament" didn't mean what I thought it did.
 
source..MSNBC.com






and...

Source... Christianlaw.org







Do not forget... in america, you swear on the bible in court and you are sentenced to a penitentiary.

The etymology of the word penitentiary is a purely american developement, as law breakers were put in a meditation room (a cell) and told to spend a term of time there meditating on their penitence (paying for your sins)


Yeah, but we're not blowing up inoocent people for no reason - YET!
 
](*,) ](*,)

If the majority of the American public would get off their asses, we would find that in numbers, these people represent but a small minority.

But by sitting back and letting them be the focus of attention these past five years, they have allowed them a voice and a sense of power that belittles who and how many of them there really are.

The apathy of the vast number of Americans on this entire issue is as disgusting as are the percentages of people who are actually going out to vote in national elections.

The majority of American voters could silence these condescending no-it-alls that are leading them around by their tails if they would speak out (and get out and vote) instead of sitting in front of the t.v.'s, going to the gym, buying a 5000 sq. ft. house they do not need, and driving in an suv for no reason at all.

All the christian right has to do is see that a gay marriage issue is on the ballot and then their numbers get out the vote while the quasi liberal majority just sit back on election day, not willing to put their votes where their mouths are.

About a month from now we will see just what the American voter is or is not thinking and if he/she display their voting habits of the recent past, then they get what they deserve. They will have no one else to blame but themselve and their
Apathetic behaviour for what comes next until the 2008 election.

They have a chance to speak up now and be heard, let's see if they have the guts to do so and send a message to these minority fanatics that are leading us/we/them around like a bunch of idiots.

eM, I'm sure you know it's more complicated than that. For all intents and purposes we only have two parties, so you don't get to say, for example "I'm against the war in Iraq but I'm also against abortion." You basically have to decide whether the Democrats or the Republicans more resemble what you believe.

And in fact, in this year's election, you don't even get to make that choice. All you can do is decide which of two local idiots will do the least harm in Washington.

As for gay marriage, the unfortunate fact is that the people who go to the polls specifically to vote against it vastly outnumber those who go to the polls to vote for it. That is because gay people are a small minority, and our straight allies have often proved to be fair-weather friends.

The Christian right has shown themselves to be adept, nay brilliant, at organization, which is not surprising because obedience to what they are told is part of their creed. Whereas those in opposition to them are disorganized and highly individualistic, again by their very nature.

What we need here is something like the Communist Party, who combine rigorous discipline with militant atheism. That's how you unseat all them clericalists!
 
They probably have less power than one might think, given the current political command of the Republicans--which is made up of an alliance between the Christian right and the corporate conservatives. For now, their ideologies match, and the latter group is only too happy to hide in the shadow of the former's image. (What company wouldn't rather say "We're a happy Christian institution" than "We're bent on being at the top of imperialism"?)

However, the Christian right's ideology is indeed distinct from that of the fiscal right's power. The corporate neo-cons care little about abortion or gay rights, and the fundamentalists are not strongly tied to immigration or trade policy. Eventually, if those two ideologies clash, a rift could really curb the power of both groups. And I think we'll see that the corporate sect of the right winds up with far more power than the born-agains.

Good analysis, pj, I'm impressed. I guess you're more than just a hot piece of ass. Oops, did I say that out loud?

It's often the case that when a country comes under one-party rule, factions begin to develop within that party. That's happened in Mexico and Japan, among other places. We may be seeing the beginning of that in the US right now.

But what a depressing thought, really. Are our choices from now on only going to be between the party of Enron and the party of Jerry Falwell? Not to mention the party of the neocons, who seem to be in the ascendant at the moment.
 
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