I think its being homophobic

[doctorsun]

I think a lot of people realize, also, that if, somehow, there was a cure found, all of the hatred and bigotry against gay people would get a thousand times worse. If there were a cure, then people really would be choosing to be gay and every conservative, religious asshole would pull out all the stops and go on a full crusade to rid the world of us.

 

[Endlight]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Great post. if we could still give points, you would have received a ton for this one, VanM

 

[eddielee]

I think it's wrong to treat homosexuality as a disorder and then try to treat it. It is possible to go through treatment, repress your sexuality, and become straight. At least to the outside World you appear straight. Inside, you still have gay feelings. I believe that those who claim to have changed from gay to straight were bisexual to begin with. If you are gay, it's emotionally unhealthy to ignore your sexuality. You will not be happy. I can understand why people do it. They give in to the pressures of society.

 

[Swellegant]

Well, you know... I think that wanting to not be gay is, in a way, homophobic. A phobia isn't just an eek-run-away fear: it's an aversion, a loathing, that can occur on many different levels of intensity. Homophobia can range from a simple longing for heterosexual "normalcy" to a belief that homosexuality is sinful to a fear-driven rage of hate resulting in violence and murder.

I think what's always bothered me about this topic (and it has come up dozens of times in the last year that I've been on this board) is that there is this weird idea in our group consciousness about "curing" things. Some of these are somewhat noble, a cure for cancer or a cure for AIDS; some of them are rather silly, like a cure for erectile dysfunction or a cure for baldness; and some of them are deeply misguided, like a cure for infertility; and some are downright evil, like a cure for homosexuality.

The thing is, you can't cure anything. There is treatment, there is prevention, there is relief... but there is no cure for mortality, there is no cure for aging, and there is no cure for genetic diversity. These are part of the human condition, not to be fixed but to be accepted and learned from.

If there were a "cure" for homosexuality, I would not submit to it. It is not a disease, it is not even an anomaly, and it does not need to be altered.

Think about this: would you have extensive plastic surgery in order to look more like "everyone else"? More importantly, would you do it to look less Semitic or less African or less Asian? Would you submit to painful hair- and skin-treatments to look less like a minority and more like the ruling class?

The way I see it, it's really the same thing as even considering a cure for homosexuality.

Gender dysphoria, on the other hand, is a much more complicated thing... I don't think that the generalizations meheartdicks makes about transsexuals in the first post are fair or accurate; one really needs to study the issue at some length in order to get a better grasp on it.

Sometimes it involves a certain degree of phobia, but most of the time it's really rather deeper and more complex a series of emotional and psychological and even physiological symptoms. Going the surgical route as a "cure" for gender dysphoria is a little extreme, to my mind; but then I am not a transsexual, so I really have no standing to say one way or the other.

 

[Soilwork]

In the end, this is all just chalk dust.

There is no cure for homosexuality, and aside from a few whaco doctors, nobody thinks there will ever be one.

Yes, some gays are very lonely an miserable. Maybe we could find a cure for "lonely and miserable". I think there is one.. it's called "Learning to love yourself", and the treatment isn't that tough. It's pretty much just accepting the things you can't change, the courage to change the things you can and the wisdom to know the difference.

 

[Andreus]

i am happy with my sexuality, but if i ever had a son, I would hope that he was straight.

there are soo many hard things that we go through, and I hate that the world still does that to us.

I am fine with me, but if I had to choose an easy and profitable path for a child, it would be straight.

Soooo...

I work hard everyday to eradicate anger and rage both within our community and outside of it as well.

the facts are that, Statistically, if I ever had a biological son, he would be more likely to be gay than a straight man's son would be.

I may not be able to change how hard it was for me as a kid, but there is another generation to look to.

So for me, acnowledging that its problematic for gays to be happy and healthy isnt the same as hoping I would actually become something different.

The difference I seek is equity and respect for all of us everywhere, not a mystical pill to make me be something I wasnt born to be.

 

[screwnutty]

This whole cure trend that has started lately on JUB just reminds me alot of the movie X-Men 3: The Last Stand

Some want the cure....others do not. I would be afraid of what might happen if there was a cure and how long would it take before it became manditory to take?

I know where I would stand....sadly with Magneto. Cold hard day in hell before I became like the rest of society...I like who am right now.

 

[lunarus]

Go here to see what I said in this thread.

And I agree with you DS

 

[Andreus]

ehhh

kids will pick on my kid

i just dont want it to be about such a core issue as sexual identity

it is such a mind fuck

but.... bullies are bullies and you are right DS

they will always find something in all of us to harp on

i love being gay and i wouldnt change a thing

i just hope humanity grows and evolves before my kid has to deal with the realities of people and their need to tear each other down for sport

 

[jockboy01]

No, it's not homophobia. There's no fear or loathing. Just a desire to change.... is somebody who dyes their hair blond loath brunettes.... NO, they just want to be blond. Personal preference.

accepting the things you can't change, the courage to change the things you can and the wisdom to know the difference.

Very true. And I'm all about accepting. I only posted that poll out of curiousity more than anything. And soilwork, you know this saying comes from a prayer don't you? LOL.

As to the relation to Xmen 3. I haven't seen the movie. But I've always seen a striking similarity between xmen/mutants and gays. I've watched the cartoons for years (I know I can't believe I didn't see it in theaters either, but time is an issue). It has occurred to me more than once that the entire premise of mutants and this issues portrayed was pointing toward homosexuality. There are a ton of similarities. Anybody know the creator? I'd be curious if he did it consciously.

 

[gmoney]

That some gay guys actually want a cure for their homosexuality.
Its not a disease, it completely normal. You should learn to love yourself.
You wanting a cure for your homosexuality is like you not embracing
your own gay self, which means, you could be a homophobic. same case
with transexuals, they dont like their male body, so they change it to
a woman's body.
pls prove me wrong on this.

I think guys who feel this way are just not completely finished with the denial stage. I felt this way once before, but not anymore.

 

[Lube]

Don't ever be DUPED. The excuse used to hate or keep down a gay person is simply his "particular" perhaps.

But everyone can fall prey to those who would like to keep them down, see them fail, see them self-destruct etc...regardless of sexuality, race, upbringing, etc......

Its not the somethin' but how one will overcome or deal with the somethin' in life.

The only thing to be "cured" are ignorance and hate. And sadly, I don't think they're going away anytime soon.

That is it, ds. That is so it.

As I said in another thread, you're just replacing one problem with a different problem. A gay pill won't magically solve all your problems.

And even then, what about the consequences? What is it about being gay that makes us be teased, dissed, or frowned upon. Sure it's the sex. But isn't it the affectations, too? The less-than-masculine-masculinity?

What if the 'gay pill' made you ravenously in love with women, but you still had a lilt to your walk, or used your hands a lot or whatever? So what exactly must this pill do? Turn you into a straight macho lumberjack?

Think about what you're asking for.

 

[Auburn]

If I ever had a son (you know, not one five years older than myself wearing a doggy collar and buttless underpants, but a real one), I'd want him to be an artist, an astronaut, a good person...

What he did with his heart and his pee-pee would then follow in his development as a human being, I would hope.

Sometimes gay people get so mired down in the issues of homosexuality that they lose perspective. Okay, so someone is miserable and feeling unworthy "due to" one's homosexuality.

But what about the thousands (MILLIONS) of heterosexuals who attach those same poor attitudes toward self? How does one explain the teen sucide, the drug use, the worthless feelings of aloneness which heterosexuals experience? Consider the low esteem of many hetero-girls in our society especially when they view all as some extention or reflection of their sexuality.

Don't ever be DUPED. The excuse used to hate or keep down a gay person is simply his "particular" perhaps.

But everyone can fall prey to those who would like to keep them down, see them fail, see them self-destruct etc...regardless of sexuality, race, upbringing, etc...

As human beings, we can be vain and that is a double-edged sword. Look beyond self and one's own specific and one begins to see that these things happen to anyone no matter the circumstance.

There are heterosexual girls who are called "tramps" and "sluts" by their own parents. There are heterosexual boys who have low-self esteem because no girl will date them. Everyone has somethin', in other words.

Its not the somethin' but how one will overcome or deal with the somethin' in life.


The only thing to be "cured" are ignorance and hate. And sadly, I don't think they're going away anytime soon.

So one must find a way to live around and ABOVE them.

This is an excellent post!

Plus, if everyone was straight, then the world would be so....boring!

 

[luminum]

not at all; accepting my homosexuality is good, loving myself is good, loving others is good so is loving a man, but loving God is better.

But being gay isn't against God. Or at least it's only against God if you personally want it to be. The Bible as it exists now says enough things that are sins and abominations that people pick and choose from and ignore. Homosexuality (for men only, it seems) is just one of many of those and one that people seem to choose in abudance. So really, if you feel that loving and accepting yourself and your sexuality are contrary to loving God, it's only a trade off because you want it to be a trade off.

I don't think it's homophobic either, it just means that some people have less fortitude and heart to be a minority in a time of ostracization and prejudice no matter how in the right they may be.

jockboy, in this case, I don't think it's equivalent to wanting to change one's hair color. Changing one's sexuality from that of a persecuted minority to a majority in this day and age is not about change and curiosity, it's about escape.

As for X-Men, X-Men was always meant to be about people on the frindge. First it was about the confusing and isolating time of adolescence, then it was about the civil rights movement and racial prejudice and in this day and age it's taken a focus more on being parallel to the struggle of the LGBT's and the general civil rights movement.

 

[smaq44]

And heterosexist.

As Don Clark says in the first sentence of Loving Someone Gay, "Being a gay man, woman, girl or boy is neither common nor ordinary but, like having blue eyes, blond hair, great artistic talent or being left-handed, it is absolutely normal."

And as Joe Kort says in 10 Smart Things Gay Men Can Do to Improve Their Lives, "there 's nothing wrong with us; what's wrong is what has been done to us." For instance, our parents, neighbors, schools, and churches do not support us in exploring our gay identity during our teenage years as openly and enthusiastically as they support hetero teenagers in dating, dancing, smooching, holding hands, writing love notes, going to a movie, sharing a burger, and just hanging out in public.

So-called "Reparative Therapy" is abusive. The only thing that needs repair is society's failure to affirm who we are romantically, sexually, spiritually, emotionally, and psychologically. And (in the USA) to recognize our right to marry and have children, if we want to.

Mac

 

[mojoe54]

I agree that gay people sometimes internalize homophobia, But I also agree with Robert/Marlene that transgenderism is a totally different thing. Transexuals do not want to change their sex because the don't want to be gay. In fact, they often become homo AFTER their sex change. "S'plain that, Lucy!"

 

[luminum]

You assume it's because they want to be something other than waht they are. What transexualism is is always feeling that you're not the way you feel you should be or you believe you are.

Changing yourself flippantly to be a girl is not what being a transexual is about. being a transexual is about knowing and feeling that at your core, you are not the right gender physically with the one you identify with.

A gay man who forces himself to be play a heterosexual, when he should be embracing his inner desire and identity as a gay man is like a transexual who forces him or herself to remain and act and identify as the gender they don't feel they are.

You're looking at it as "the body is corporeal and therefore the body is what is true" when really, everythign we are as gay men contradicts that and likewise everythign trans people are contradicts that. It's about what you feel inside you beyond your body otherwise, we'd all have a good reason not to be gay--because penises don't go in male mouths or mouths in general and they certianly weren't made to go in male asses or asses in general. Trans people know that deep down inside them, like we know we're gay, they are a certain gender and that the gender they know they are does not corrispond with the gender of the body they inhabit.

 

[smaq44]

penises don't go in male mouths or mouths in general and they certainly weren't made to go in male asses or asses in general.

Oops! Somebody ought to get this word out to our evolutionary cousins, the Bonobo chimps. They seem to think FF, MF, and MM sex is great in its many variations. They have sex with any gender for greeting, resolving conflicts, and reconciling.

Maybe they're just more open minded that many Homo sapiens.

Mac

 

[luminum]

Oops! Somebody ought to get this word out to our evolutionary cousins, the Bonobo chimps. They seem to think FF, MF, and MM sex is great in its many variations. They have sex with any gender for greeting, resolving conflicts, and reconciling.

Maybe they're just more open minded that many Homo sapiens.

Mac

They don't have sex, they have mutual masturbation. The point I'm making is that if you want to use the physicality argument against trans people, they you have to look att he physicality argument against gay people in the same way.

Will, the penis is only physical gender, but the identity component of gender is much greater. Simply having a penis does not mean you identify with being male. You're still looking at this from a purely physical objective standpoint. The basics of it is that trans people do not feel they are in the correctly gendered body. A pre-op trans male does not feel he is a male, does not feel he was ever supposed to be a male, and does not identify himself with his male body. 'He' feels he was always meant to be female physically because 'he' feels that emotionally, psychically, and cognitively 'he' is a female.

The physical gender is not the cognitive gender. One does not cause the other or necessitate the other. If you took your statement that "if you have a penis and you naturally like men, you're gay", you could also argue by your means that you're not gay, because gay's not natural and you're just not accepting that you have a penis and that males are naturally supposed to be with females. Trans people 'naturally' feel that they are not the right gender. Fixing it by means of hormones or surgery is just a means of getting to where they know they should be and should have always been.

Whether or not the means of becoming that gender physically is labeled 'cosmetic' or 'corrective' is irrelevant because how a procedure is categorized is based on the very fluid and majority-based perception of the correction. There are people out there who still believe that psychology is all a bunch of hogwash and that it really isn't medical or beneficial to people. But it is. The debate now is whether or not gender correction is frivolous or whether it's necessary for the person in question.

 

[altec930]

I already kind of talked about it in the other post but I could see it as homophobia. Most gay people just bug me and they are the main reason I would want to change. I don't want to be associated with them and feel the stereotypical gay guy gives all gays a bad reputation.

And the whole transexual thing bugs me even more. It is just something I could never accept.

And I am not lonley or a depressed person at all. I am very outgoing with many friends (all straight) and that lifestyle just appeals more to me.

So if there was a cure I would be first in line. Just my 2 cents. I know people wont like it but that is how I have always felt.