NSA data mining

[tigerfan482]

Re: NSA data mining shared with the DEA

They, in fact, did it.



http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/27/u...warrantless-wiretaps-as-evidence.html?hp&_r=0

For background on why this is happening: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/16/us/double-secret-surveillance.html

Gradually the lights grow brighter. (I have yet to see a Snowden tale of nonsense.)

What are you talking about a Snowden tale of nonsense? Snowden released troves of documents that he stole from his employer. Documents state what documents state. What has been a lot of nonsense is the media interpretation of said documents. They're interpreted to fit their predisposition on the topic. What I have noticed is that Snowden's stated goal of exposing Americans to violations of their Constitutional rights is a distant memory and now information is being released on legitimate American intelligence activities against completely foreign targets. There is no longer a whistle blower guise to hide behind. This indiscriminate release of activities that in no way relate to Americans' rights is pure espionage.

 

[kallipolis]

^ By the NSA listening to the telephone calls of the leaders of Allied nations, such as Germany's Angela Merkel....America's presumed right to indulge in pure espionage on friendly nations...and, of course the media's interpretation of the NSAs surveillance is "nonsense."

What happened to your public relations exercises diplomatically defending the NSAs activities....the gloves have been removed to expose an iron fist .....the NSAs self indulgence has been exposed....you've nothing to defend...the NSA is out of control....answering only to its own perceptions of national security....I hope that Congress, and President Obama intervene and clean up this agency....soon...let the heads roll.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-24699733

Meanwhile a Japanese news agency says that the NSA asked the Japanese government in 2011 to help it monitor fibre-optic cables carrying personal data through Japan, to the Asia-Pacific region.

The reports, carried by the Kyodo news agency, say that this was intended to allow the US to spy on China - but Japan refused, citing legal restrictions and a shortage of personnel.

The White House has so far declined to comment on Monday's claims about US spying in Spain, published in the newspapers El Pais and El Mundo.

It is alleged that the NSA tracked millions of phone calls, texts and emails from Spanish citizens between 10 December 2012 and 8 January this year.

Even The Third Reich's, Gestapo would have envied the NSAs arrogance....

 

[Sausy]

So they need to go through millions of phone calls/e-mails/ whatever else to allegedly uncover the plans of terrorists ? And this is just in Spain, end of last year and beginning of this year. Just WTF are they really looking for? Saying everyone does it won't cut it because the numbers of calls, e-mails and other communications monitored is just staggering. And that's what's just already come to the surface, no small part thanks to Edward Snowden. No matter what one thinks of his motivations, or may find him insufferable in his self regard, where else was it going to come out of if not a rogue whistleblower who had enough?

 

[palbert]

We now learn that NSA did not inform Obama it was monitoring Merkel's phone, contrary to reports in the German press.

The US National Security Agency was forced on Sunday to deny that its director ever discussed a surveillance operation against the German chancellor with President Barack Obama, as the White House tried to contain a full-scale diplomatic crisis over espionage directed at allied countries.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/27/barack-obama-nsa-angela-merkel-germany

One would assume that such a denial means his National Security staff was similarly in the dark.

Incredible oversight, literally and figuratively, given the diplomatic fall-out. Is this the height of "need to know?" And it's unforeseen consequence?

 

[kallipolis]

We now learn that NSA did not inform Obama it was monitoring Merkel's phone, contrary to reports in the German press.



http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/27/barack-obama-nsa-angela-merkel-germany

One would assume that such a denial means his National Security staff was similarly in the dark.

Incredible oversight, literally and figuratively, given the diplomatic fall-out. Is this the height of "need to know?" And it's unforeseen consequence?

That's the official line, letting Obama off the hook, conveniently ..... if this is the truth then the NSA is a rogue agency that needs to have its wings clipped by Congress.....

 

[JayHawk]

We now learn that NSA did not inform Obama it was monitoring Merkel's phone, contrary to reports in the German press.



http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/27/barack-obama-nsa-angela-merkel-germany

One would assume that such a denial means his National Security staff was similarly in the dark.

Incredible oversight, literally and figuratively, given the diplomatic fall-out. Is this the height of "need to know?" And it's unforeseen consequence?

It may be the republican holy grail of proof that government is too big. Everyone, with a butt hurt pouty lip likes to say IF THEY were they they would have certainly passed along everything. However since NSA, along with HLS, DOD, VA, Interior, Treasury, The Fed, IRS and endless other departments make hundreds of decisions each day. It is not humanly possible to either convey or receive all of that everyday and be effective at anything other than listening. That is why they have appointed leaders and go through a screening process. Fact is that while the traitors leaks may be embarassing, collecting intelligence on foreign leaders is the reason NSA exists.

How many of you barge into your CEOs office to let them know you did exactly what your job is today?

 

[tigerfan482]

^ By the NSA listening to the telephone calls of the leaders of Allied nations, such as Germany's Angela Merkel....America's presumed right to indulge in pure espionage on friendly nations...and, of course the media's interpretation of the NSAs surveillance is "nonsense."

What happened to your public relations exercises diplomatically defending the NSAs activities....the gloves have been removed to expose an iron fist .....the NSAs self indulgence has been exposed....you've nothing to defend...the NSA is out of control....answering only to its own perceptions of national security....I hope that Congress, and President Obama intervene and clean up this agency....soon...let the heads roll.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-24699733

Even The Third Reich's, Gestapo would have envied the NSAs arrogance....

I still fully support the NSA. However, I have also come to the realization that there are two unmovable sides in this situation. Posting tit for tat responses to the news articles (if you want to call many of them that) that you guys scrape around for doesn't accomplish anything since neither side seems ready to change their position. As of right now, given the lack of any Congressional movement on anything and the lackluster turnout for the protest in DC the other day, I'd say the NSA "news", despite the Guardian's best efforts aimed at maintaining readership, has had it's 15 minutes and is moving on.

So they need to go through millions of phone calls/e-mails/ whatever else to allegedly uncover the plans of terrorists ? And this is just in Spain, end of last year and beginning of this year. Just WTF are they really looking for? Saying everyone does it won't cut it because the numbers of calls, e-mails and other communications monitored is just staggering. And that's what's just already come to the surface, no small part thanks to Edward Snowden. No matter what one thinks of his motivations, or may find him insufferable in his self regard, where else was it going to come out of if not a rogue whistleblower who had enough?

You do realize that the NSA's mission is more than just looking for terrorists right? But even if we just assume that is all that they do, then I think General Alexander put it best - "You have to have the haystack to find the needle." Because terrorists aren't some centrally controlled and commanded entity like a nation's army, it's almost impossible to locate them and attempt to prevent their attacks without massive amounts of data to search through. For every terrorist that is known, there are 3 or 4 other unknown terrorists. If you only targeted known terrorists, then you'd be missing a vast majority of terrorist planning and activity. Plus, since they don't have elaborate communications infrastructure like mny governments do, they use the networks and tools available to the average Joe to communicate, which is why the government targets and sifts through that data. Your idea that it's just as simple as targeting Terrorist Abu and you'll get everything you need is laughable and shows a lack of understanding on how terrorist cells work.

We now learn that NSA did not inform Obama it was monitoring Merkel's phone, contrary to reports in the German press.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/27/barack-obama-nsa-angela-merkel-germany

One would assume that such a denial means his National Security staff was similarly in the dark.

Incredible oversight, literally and figuratively, given the diplomatic fall-out. Is this the height of "need to know?" And it's unforeseen consequence?

Seems like the Guardian is fishing around to generate some more anti-America/anti-Obama feelings. That article is a bad article - plain and simple. It seems nowadays any newspaper who wants to generate a headline can throw some vagaries together to get a point across, attribute it to some "anonymous government official" and call it fact. When you are quoting German tabloids for sources of information to keep a constant theme going, you're starting to run out of material.

But again, people are moving on. Only the most ardent government haters are still reading the Guardian and looking around for NSA related material. Maybe that why polls continued to show people supporting the NSA and its programs even after all of the "revelations" from Snowden back when they may have actually been considered related to Constitutional rights.

 

[kallipolis]

How many of you barge into your CEOs office to let them know you did exactly what your job is today?

It could be reasonably held that listening in on Chancellor Merkel's mobile telephone conversations is not predictable routine....nor should such eaves dropping of a close friend, and head of government of an Allied nation be held to be of any conceivable worth to the security of the United States.....stupidity would appear to infest the NSA.

 

[kallipolis]

I still fully support the NSA. However, I have also come to the realization that there are two unmovable sides in this situation. Posting tit for tat responses to the news articles (if you want to call many of them that) that you guys scrape around for doesn't accomplish anything since neither side seems ready to change their position. As of right now, given the lack of any Congressional movement on anything and the lackluster turnout for the protest in DC the other day, I'd say the NSA "news", despite the Guardian's best efforts aimed at maintaining readership, has had it's 15 minutes and is moving on.


You do realize that the NSA's mission is more than just looking for terrorists right? But even if we just assume that is all that they do, then I think General Alexander put it best - "You have to have the haystack to find the needle." Because terrorists aren't some centrally controlled and commanded entity like a nation's army, it's almost impossible to locate them and attempt to prevent their attacks without massive amounts of data to search through. For every terrorist that is known, there are 3 or 4 other unknown terrorists. If you only targeted known terrorists, then you'd be missing a vast majority of terrorist planning and activity. Plus, since they don't have elaborate communications infrastructure like mny governments do, they use the networks and tools available to the average Joe to communicate, which is why the government targets and sifts through that data. Your idea that it's just as simple as targeting Terrorist Abu and you'll get everything you need is laughable and shows a lack of understanding on how terrorist cells work.


Seems like the Guardian is fishing around to generate some more anti-America/anti-Obama feelings. That article is a bad article - plain and simple. It seems nowadays any newspaper who wants to generate a headline can throw some vagaries together to get a point across, attribute it to some "anonymous government official" and call it fact. When you are quoting German tabloids for sources of information to keep a constant them going, you're starting to run out of material.

But again, people are moving on. Only the most ardent government haters are still reading the Guardian and looking around for NSA related material. Maybe that why polls continued to show people supporting the NSA and its programs even after all of the "revelations" from Snowden back when they may have actually been considered related to Constitutional rights.

Shoot the messenger.....it's Snowden's fault, not forgetting The Guardian for daring to publish the facts that the NSA is a rogue agency, out of control listening to the telephone conversations of the heads of government of friendly, and allied nations.....your humour is typical Evangelical holier than thou...spare us the hypocrisy.

 

[tigerfan482]

Shoot the messenger.....it's Snowden's fault, not forgetting The Guardian for daring to publish the facts that the NSA is a rogue agency, out of control listening to the telephone conversations of the heads of government of friendly, and allied nations.....your humour is typical Evangelical holier than thou...spare us the hypocrisy.

And as always, your points contain little, if any, substantiated points and are merely just vitriol dripping from a biased tongue. Everyone spies on everyone else. You need to learn that. Do you think that any nation out there wouldn't, if they were able to develop the capability, spy on President Obama's every call to find out what the US is up to? You need to get out of your fantasy land where you seem to believe the only bad guy here is the US and everyone else is living in perfect unity and trust.

 

[palbert]

It may be the republican holy grail of proof that government is too big. Everyone, with a butt hurt pouty lip likes to say IF THEY were they they would have certainly passed along everything. However since NSA, along with HLS, DOD, VA, Interior, Treasury, The Fed, IRS and endless other departments make hundreds of decisions each day. It is not humanly possible to either convey or receive all of that everyday and be effective at anything other than listening. That is why they have appointed leaders and go through a screening process. Fact is that while the traitors leaks may be embarassing, collecting intelligence on foreign leaders is the reason NSA exists.

How many of you barge into your CEOs office to let them know you did exactly what your job is today?

I tend to draw a difference in telling the President that "Mrs. Smith is discussing apple pies with Mrs. Jones" and telling the President that NSA is listening in on the private phone convos and texts of one or more of the First World's major leaders. Particularly when so much is made of the leaders personal relationship to accomplish mutual goals.

 

[JayHawk]

When you release information that does nothing but embarrass your company for political gain of others then you are a traitor. NOT a fucking messenger.

So Kallipolis, if you think the European leaders were not somewhat aware that if the US could it would spy on them and the rest then why were most european countries trying to help capture Snowden? The reality is your leaders will say strong things to appease the lemmings but in the end they will take the intelligence deals offered and shut the fuck up.

Snowden set into motion years of damage against the US. The rhetoric will continue till that ceases to make news.

 

[JayHawk]

I tend to draw a difference in telling the President that "Mrs. Smith is discussing apple pies with Mrs. Jones" and telling the President that NSA is listening in on the private phone convos and texts of one or more of the First World's major leaders. Particularly when so much is made of the leaders personal relationship to accomplish mutual goals.

Oh bullshit. Of course, I also think that the admittance that Obama didn't know on a larger scale was just a minion jumping on a grenade. If there was no Snowden there would be zero change. Now the leaders will get encryption and we will break it.

 

[kallipolis]

And as always, your points contain little, if any, substantiated points and are merely just vitriol dripping from a biased tongue. Everyone spies on everyone else. You need to learn that. Do you think that any nation out there wouldn't, if they were able to develop the capability, spy on President Obama's every call to find out what the US is up to? You need to get out of your fantasy land where you seem to believe the only bad guy here is the US and everyone else is living in perfect unity and trust.

Because every one else does it, we the United States should do it.........an infantile attempt to justify stupidity, eaves dropping on the personal telephone calls of Angela Merkel....how to influence friends, and allies then lose them rapidly.

 

[JayHawk]

It could be reasonably held that listening in on Chancellor Merkel's mobile telephone conversations is not predictable routine....nor should such eaves dropping of a close friend, and head of government of an Allied nation be held to be of any conceivable worth to the security of the United States.....stupidity would appear to infest the NSA.

World leaders often discuss items that would be of interest to the US but the leader is determining whether or not to tell that information based on self interest. To think otherwise is simply ignorant. Stupidity appears to have infested your keyboard.

 

[JayHawk]

Because every one else does it, we the United States should do it.........an infantile attempt to justify stupidity, eaves dropping on the personal telephone calls of Angela Merkel....how to influence friends, and allies then lose them rapidly.

No it isn't justification. The idea that we will do it regardless of what you or any other foreigner thinks is our justification. It is trying to placate just like your leaders are doing... of course we don't have much to get from Greece so I imagine we arent attempting to placate Greece per se.

 

[kallipolis]

.

Snowden set into motion years of damage against the US. The rhetoric will continue till that ceases to make news.

The NSA created, and continues to create the damage....damaging years of good will built between friends, and allies..

Snowden is merely the messenger, and The Guardian merely the medium informing the world that a bunch of imbeciles working with the NSA destroying the relationships with many countries that the United States has taken generations to construct....what a disaster for the United States and her friends, and allies allowing a bunch of idiots to operate a spying organisation.

 

[kallipolis]

No it isn't justification. The idea that we will do it regardless of what you or any other foreigner thinks is our justification. It is trying to placate just like your leaders are doing... of course we don't have much to get from Greece so I imagine we arent attempting to placate Greece per se.

To hell with our relationships with our friends, and allies we will do what we want, when we want....in the process destroy our friendships with friendly nations....a testimonial to diplomatic insanity fostered by imbeciles employed by the NSA.

 

[JayHawk]

Whatever you think buddy. The end of the day the same countries will be at the trough feeding on our intel AGAIN... because they cant walk. They can try but they cannot truly walk away. That is also our construct.

 

[JayHawk]

To hell with our relationships with the our friends, and allies we will do what we want, when we want....in the process destroy our friendships with friendly nations....a testimonial to diplomatic insanity fostered by imbeciles employed by the NSA.

See you buy this 'relationship with friends' bullshit. That is the pure naivete. We are not buddies who share beers. These are nations and NONE of the players at a leadership level are as naive.