NSA data mining

[kallipolis]

See you buy this 'relationship with friends' bullshit. That is the pure naivete. We are not buddies who share beers. These are nations and NONE of the players at a leadership level are as naive.

That's why the Germans, Italians, Spaniards, and the French are reconsidering their intelligence sharing relationships with the United States....so naive!!!!

 

[palbert]

As an aside, and a personal editorial comment, I have enjoyed seeing the evolution of the defense of the NSA and the condemnation of Snowden with no attention to reining in whatever excesses have been shown. Remember the innocence - say nothing of its presumed legality -of and non-particularization of wholesale vacuuming? Now we have the targeting of allied leaders, whose link to terrorism is of substantial doubt.

The only person grabbing the heart of the Constitutional matter is the Solicitor General, and he was forced to because of major ill-founded representation to - and relied upon by - the Supreme Court. (see posts above.)

At this point legitimate inquiry is still being stymied. (Rep. Grayson on frustrated Congressional oversight.)

This could be put behind the Bush and Obama administrations if only someone would step forward.

 

[kallipolis]

It's been an ongoing series of public relations disasters for the NSA...that continues without an intermission, for the general public reading with great amusement the antics of a spy organisation, out of control.... notwithstanding, that there are those posting here who actually defend the NSAs practices spying on United States citizens, the heads of government of friends, and allies:

I quote:

Even the PR response has been limited and ill co-ordinated. Monday's New York Times comments that "the administration has seemed uncertain about how to handle the reports", concerned the interception of the German leader's mobile phone. Last week, the attempts of one former NSA director to fight back turned into farce when his briefings to journalists by phone were overheard by a fellow passenger on a train who started tweeting updates.

I'll say that the moronic behaviour of a former NSA director highlights why he is no longer employed by them....I'm certain that there must other employees who will soon be facing the guillotine.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-24707558

 

[palbert]

It's been an ongoing series of public relations disasters for the NSA...that continues without an intermission, for the general public reading with great amusement the antics of a spy organisation, out of control.... notwithstanding, that there are those posting here who actually defend the NSAs practices spying on United States citizens, the heads of government of friends, and allies:

I quote:



I'll say that the moronic behaviour of a former NSA director highlights why he is no longer employed by them....I'm certain that there must other employees who will soon be facing the guillotine.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-24707558

You fail to note the overheard conversation was "on background" by a "former senior administrative official." And he was seated two rows away from the Tweeter, facing away.

 

[kallipolis]

You fail to note the overheard conversation was "on background" by a "former senior administrative official." And he was seated two rows away from the Tweeter, facing away.

Then the tweeter was merely inventing his tweets, and that he heard nothing, worth hearing?

 

[palbert]

Then the tweeter was merely inventing his tweets, and that he heard nothing, worth hearing?

The Tweeter was tweeting what the loud-mouth was bleating all over the train car.

 

[kallipolis]

The Tweeter was tweeting what the loud-mouth was bleating all over the train car.

Exactly..........

 

[tigerfan482]

As an aside, and a personal editorial comment, I have enjoyed seeing the evolution of the defense of the NSA and the condemnation of Snowden with no attention to reining in whatever excesses have been shown. Remember the innocence - say nothing of its presumed legality -of and non-particularization of wholesale vacuuming? Now we have the targeting of allied leaders, whose link to terrorism is of substantial doubt.

The only person grabbing the heart of the Constitutional matter is the Solicitor General, and he was forced to because of major ill-founded representation to - and relied upon by - the Supreme Court. (see posts above.)

At this point legitimate inquiry is still being stymied. (Rep. Grayson on frustrated Congressional oversight.)

This could be put behind the Bush and Obama administrations if only someone would step forward.

As stated before, the NSA is not in existence just to look for terrorist behaviors. While that is an important part of its mission, it is charged with gathering foreign intelligence. Knowing what foreign leaders are talking about and what they are planning is foreign intelligence, whether related to terrorism or not.

I still can't believe those naive people who think the US is the only country on the face of this Earth that is engaged in these activities. Every country spies on anyone whose information they think would benefit them. To pretend that European countries are somehow innocent bystanders who just mind their own business borders on either extreme naivete or willful ignorance. Even if you do believe other countries engage in this activity as well, it is ignorant to believe that the US should "take the high road" and not do it simply to calm some Europeans' feelings.

However, what has been funny is watching how public interest dwindles every day in the matters of the NSA. The rally this past weekend in DC saw hundreds of protesters. There were more people who turned out for that sham of a rally to re-open the DC monuments. People have moved on from phone records being collected and I would bet polls would show an good majority of Americans completely support spying on foreign countries, whether friendly or not. Hell, a majority of people said they want the NSA to continue their mission despite the fact they believed it collects more information and use it for more purposes that what has been stated.

The only PR nightmare has been the one experienced by these news organizations and other groups who were hoping to use this to get massive support for ending the NSA.

 

[palbert]

As stated before, the NSA is not in existence just to look for terrorist behaviors. While that is an important part of its mission, it is charged with gathering foreign intelligence. Knowing what foreign leaders are talking about and what they are planning is foreign intelligence, whether related to terrorism or not. ....

I have no problem with NSA looking for terrorists. I object to their knowing when I - or world leaders - take a pee break.

One of the other mandates is to look for present, past and future criminal activity. To his chagrin the Solicitor General represented to SCOTUS that if the government intended to use such information (about criminal activity) the government would have to disclose such intent to the defendant. Until the filing last Friday it had never disclosed such intention or information.

If they are as honorable in the former as in the latter we still have a rogue agency.

(And the Solicitor General is protecting his reputation - and license - with SCOTUS. Testing constitutionality of the law is an added benefit.)

 

[JayHawk]

That's why the Germans, Italians, Spaniards, and the French are reconsidering their intelligence sharing relationships with the United States....so naive!!!!

No Sir, you are naive to believe they will actually stop sharing. It is a frame for the lemming to say "Ahhhh, my government is strong and is showing those stupid Americans" How much would you like to wager in a few years absolutely shocking stories of continued work with the dreaded Americans will come out? How much? It can be a trivial amount so you wont be hurt too terribly when you are proven wrong.

 

[kallipolis]

No Sir, you are naive to believe they will actually stop sharing. It is a frame for the lemming to say "Ahhhh, my government is strong and is showing those stupid Americans" How much would you like to wager in a few years absolutely shocking stories of continued work with the dreaded Americans will come out? How much? It can be a trivial amount so you wont be hurt too terribly when you are proven wrong.

You're guessing............

- - - Updated - - -

I have no problem with NSA looking for terrorists. I object to their knowing when I - or world leaders - take a pee break.

Well noted.

 

[kallipolis]

The only PR nightmare has been the one experienced by these news organizations and other groups who were hoping to use this to get massive support for ending the NSA.

Newspaper personnel are not the persons being dismissed.....sorry, accepting early retirement....cue Keith Alexander.....and others, with the axe being sharpened to decapitate a few more over zealous "snoops.".....the earlier the better before the NATO alliance collapses as a result of NSA eaves dropping on America's allies.

 

[kallipolis]

British private citizen arrested for hacking a United States Army data base....Wow! some hypocrisy....

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...ed-with-hacking-us-army-database-8909484.html

Lauri Love, a former student at Glasgow University, was charged in New Jersey with allegedly infiltrating thousands of US computer systems from his home in the village of Stradishall in East Anglia.

 

[kallipolis]

Can the world expect a thorough house cleaning, or is Feinstein's statement merely words attempting to assuage the anger of America's friends, and allies?

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/28/nsa-surveillance-dianne-feinstein-opposed-allies

I quote:

The chair of the Senate intelligence committee, who has been a loyal defender of the National Security Agency, dramatically broke ranks on Monday, saying she was "totally opposed" to the US spying on allies and demanding a total review of all surveillance programs.

California Democratic senator Dianne Feinstein strongly criticised the NSA's monitoring of the calls of friendly world leaders such as German chancellor Angela Merkel.

 

[palbert]

Can the world expect a thorough house cleaning, or is Feinstein's statement merely words attempting to assuage the anger of America's friends, and allies?

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/oct/28/nsa-surveillance-dianne-feinstein-opposed-allies

I quote:

The WH seems to be considering a ban on spying on "friendly countries" - whoever they are - but not on non-friendly countries - whoever they are.

WASHINGTON — President Obama is poised to order the National Security Agency to stop eavesdropping on the leaders of American allies, administration and congressional officials said Monday, responding to a deepening diplomatic crisis over reports that the agency had for years targeted the cellphone of Chancellor Angela Merkel of Germany.
...
Disclosure of the White House’s proposed action came after the release on Monday afternoon of Ms. Feinstein’s statement, in which she asserted that the White House had told her it would cease all intelligence collection in friendly countries. That statement, senior administration officials said, was “not accurate,” but they acknowledged that they had already made unspecified changes in surveillance policy and planned further changes, particularly in the monitoring of government leaders.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/29/w...spying-on-heads-of-allied-states.html?hp&_r=0

Will we see the official list when the review is completed, late-November or December?

 

[kallipolis]

The WH seems to be considering a ban on spying on "friendly countries" - whoever they are - but not on non-friendly countries - whoever they are.



http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/29/w...spying-on-heads-of-allied-states.html?hp&_r=0

Will we see the official list when the review is completed, late-November or December?

This makes sense....why spy on friends?

 

[palbert]

The real revelation here - for domestic purposes - is that Feinstein's intelligence committee, which she has professed was always fully informed, was not informed of this element of the spying program.

Senator Dianne Feinstein, who chairs the Senate's intelligence committee, joined the ranks of critics on Monday, expressing outrage at U.S. intelligence collection on allies, and pique that her committee was not informed.

Anyone remember certain members protestations and attestations of oversight.

Congressional oversight of the NSA is a joke. I should know, I'm in Congress [<Link]

 

[EastMed]

This makes sense....why spy on friends?

States do not have friends - they have interests. Period.

 

[kallipolis]

States do not have friends - they have interests. Period.

Those interests are mediated through the political leadership of NATO states, encouraging trust between heads of government within the NATO alliance that the benefits of the alliance are realised when need arises....with German forces intervening in The Balkans some dozen years alongside other NATO nations imposing peace on a region beset by war....this is why NATO works for the benefit of the common good.

That trust is compromised when one country, in this case the United States, was hacking the personal mobile telephone of Chancellor Merkel....

 

[kallipolis]

The real revelation here - for domestic purposes - is that Feinstein's intelligence committee, which she has professed was always fully informed, was not informed of this element of the spying program.



Anyone remember certain members protestations and attestations of oversight.

The truth can be a frightening lesson in humility.....now knowing, that Feinstein had no idea......what the NSA was/is doing in the name of the security of the United States.