Video So one currency Euro was a bad idea ??

[kallipolis]

I assume you just mean within Greece. A lot of the opposition from Germany and some others is coming from conservatives.

German thinking on debt relief is founded upon the premise that loans should be repaid even, when the borrower is obliged to accept austerity measures that prevent repayment of the loan....for shrinking the economy, and increasing social distress will not assist the repayment of the loan.

Debt relief may well be understood through extending the repayment period, and lowering the interest rate.

Saner thinking from the United States, and the IMF is now encouraging the Euro Zone nations to accept that the Greek debt is unsustainable without debt relief...

The saga continues over the weekend.

 

[bankside]

I am certain Germans are aware of that. What is intolerable is the attitude that the debt should just go away. You have an extreme socialist government in Greece whose priority is simply taking money from wealthier Germans (and I am convinced they do not care whether the germans take it or whether they steal it while pretending to be robin hood) instead of doing anything at all to make the economy wealthy enough to sustain socialist dreams for government spending.

So to hear Tsipras whine about debt bondage and imperialism and colonialism and humiliation and bla bla bla is just. fucking. ludicrous. Greece has shown chronic ineptitude with its finances. Even in this thread we see the excuses piling up. No one forced Greece to borrow a cent except the Greeks who could never bear to hear "no" from their politicians. Tsipras should start every sentence to the media in any statement he makes with "I'm sorry..."

Until the Greek attitude changes, Germany should not yield a millimetre. Greece has made itself. Germany can undo it, but certainly not by following Greek instructions on finance. It is exactly the other way around.

 

[bankside]

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-33470220

Latvia is right.

Tsipras knows nothing about growing an economy. His only game is socialist populism.

 

[kallipolis]

I am certain Germans are aware of that. What is intolerable is the attitude that the debt should just go away. You have an extreme socialist government in Greece whose priority is simply taking money from wealthier Germans (and I am convinced they do not care whether the germans take it or whether they steal it while pretending to be robin hood) instead of doing anything at all to make the economy wealthy enough to sustain socialist dreams for government spending.

So to hear Tsipras whine about debt bondage and imperialism and colonialism and humiliation and bla bla bla is just. fucking. ludicrous. Greece has shown chronic ineptitude with its finances. Even in this thread we see the excuses piling up. No one forced Greece to borrow a cent except the Greeks who could never bear to hear "no" from their politicians. Tsipras should start every sentence to the media in any statement he makes with "I'm sorry..."

Until the Greek attitude changes, Germany should not yield a millimetre. Greece has made itself. Germany can undo it, but certainly not by following Greek instructions on finance. It is exactly the other way around.

The issue under discussion is how Greece repays its loans....the Greek Government is requesting better repayment terms...

Bear in mind that the private German, and French banks which lent huge sums of money to the Greek Government were bailed out by the Euro Zone taxpayer, while the borrower has been obliged to accept terms that make it very difficult to repay the loans....the United States secretary of the treasury, and the IMF have intervened to ensure that Germany offers debt relief.

The austerity measures that Greece is now offering to implement will contribute to improving the competitiveness of the Greek economy, and as such welcomed by me.

- - - Updated - - -

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-33470220

Latvia is right.

Tsipras knows nothing about growing an economy. His only game is socialist populism.

Your righteous judgement is duly noted....

 

[bankside]

No, the issue under discussion is that Greece does not plan to repay all of its loans (AGAIN!) not how it will repay.

Your (regrettably, typical of your prime minister; you could be his aide) duplicitousness is on display: you may quote Donald Tusk as though his is the only unassailable opinion, but if I quote from the Latvian leader you manage to dismiss their words as being somehow my flippant and terrible opinion, not their carefully and painfully earned wisdom from a directly comparable circumstance.

And throughout this thread where you claim again and again that not paying is still somehow a form of paying. It isn't. Based on the deception you put here I wouldn't loan you a penny. Sadly all of Greece seems to share the same standard of integrity.

A warning to Germany: the ONLY reason Tsipras would walk away from a referendum victory, only to then agree to what was rejected, is to give a nudge-and-a-wink to the feckless Greek electorate that he will not attempt to implement even one of the reforms he might now feign acceptance of. They can rest assured he intends to just keep sucking at the teat.

 

[kennersingle]

The video is correct.

In the United States, we just accept that the poor states are going to suck up cash from the rich states. They will do this chronically and to an extraordinary degree. In our case, these poor states happen also to be the most racist, homophobic, poorly-educated, culturally-deprived, and disease-infested parts of our union (problems which are NOT shared in the European example).

We could make a good case for getting rid of these losers. In fact, we once fought a war to keep them.

And most republican.

 

[kallipolis]

Your pedictable sophistry is well noted...now back to reality....

....Banks the world over regularly write off their losses when a borrower is unable to repay its loans...nothing new here for banks understand they enter into a business deal, with a borrower enabling the bank to earn interest...i.e. make profits out of lending money...reckless lending can have consequences for the lender, as well as the borrower.

The issue here is, and remains how to enable Greece to pay its debts....for the Greek Government is not opting out of facing its fiscal responsibility to repay that which it has borrowed....destroying the Greek economy with severe austerity measures is not going to assist the Greek Government to repay its debts...

At no time has the Greek Government announced that it will not pay its debts...

and the lending institutions...the banks.. have had their losses covered by the taxpayers of the Euro Zone nations....

 

[kallipolis]

Here's the opinion of the French economy minister on debt relief for Greece:

http://www.ekathimerini.com/199339/...-relief-frances-macron-tells-german-newspaper

A bailout package for Greece needs to include a reduction in the country's debt burden, French Economy Minister Emmanuel Macron told German daily Die Welt in an interview published on Saturday.But Macron insisted the burden must be eased.

"It is necessary to reduce the debt burden so that the Greek economy does not go under," he told Die Welt.

Outlining the path to solving the Greek problem, Macron said structural reforms needed to be deepened, adding: "More competition doesn't mean saving more!"

Investment was also essential to supporting growth in Greece, said.

 

[bankside]

Your pedictable sophistry is well noted...now back to reality....

....Banks the world over regularly write off their losses when a borrower is unable to repay its loans...nothing new here for banks understand they enter into a business deal, with a borrower enabling the bank to earn interest...i.e. make profits out of lending money...reckless lending can have consequences for the lender, as well as the borrower.

The issue here is, and remains how to enable Greece to pay its debts....for the Greek Government is not opting out of facing its fiscal responsibility to repay that which it has borrowed....destroying the Greek economy with severe austerity measures is not going to assist the Greek Government to repay its debts...

Greece has agreed and committed to fully pay its debts, according to consensual terms, at the time the money was borrowed. There is no issue at all if Greece does what it chose to commit to.

The issue you present, is how to release Greece from any obligation to follow through on its well-established and well-known commitments. And of course, how to bamboozle everyone into believing that not paying equals a way of paying.

Unless of course your statement were remotely true:

At no time has the Greek Government announced that it will not pay its debts

If that remains the case, let them pay. STARTING WITH THE PAYMENT THEY JUST MISSED. I would consider simply skipping out on the payment as an "announcement." So you are wrong in that as well.

 

[TX-Beau]

People should pay back their debts, and banks shouldn't attempt to profit off of high risk lending then whine and demand bailouts when the people they knew perfectly well were high risk, default.

BOTH sides in this deserve the pillory and Merkel is being as big a bitch as the Greek guy was.

 

[hotatlboi]

Here's the opinion of the French economy minister on debt relief for Greece:

http://www.ekathimerini.com/199339/...-relief-frances-macron-tells-german-newspaper

I can see that side but can also see Merkel's position. Greece already got a haircut in 2011, now it is asking for a second one. What's to guarantee they won't be back in a few more years asking for a third one?

 

[TX-Beau]

I can see that side but can also see Merkel's position. Greece already got a haircut in 2011, now it is asking for a second one. What's to guarantee they won't be back in a few more years asking for a third one?

The sole reason the EU is in this position is because banks made high risk loans to a risky proposition in pursuit of profit.

What's to guarantee they won't be back in a few years doing the same thing?

Lending to people who you know are unreliable out of greed is just as irresponsible as not paying your bills.

 

[kallipolis]

The sole reason the EU is in this position is because banks made high risk loans to a risky proposition in pursuit of profit.

What's to guarantee they won't be back in a few years doing the same thing?

Lending to people who you know are unreliable out of greed is just as irresponsible as not paying your bills.

Worth noting...for we the people, had no idea that the Greek Government had been borrowing such huge sums...

Reaching back to 2008 the banks have brought this planet's economic well being close to collapse.

 

[Telstra]

Another person work in the Bank here said Greece will use its own currency soon (Not the Euro)
So Kallipolis, your prediction ...

 

[mightbe]

Won't happen.

 

[kallipolis]

Another person work in the Bank here said Greece will use its own currency soon (Not the Euro)
So Kallipolis, your prediction ...

The Euro Zone countries, and Greece have reached an agreement overnight...Greece will remain within the Euro.

 

[hotatlboi]

The Euro Zone countries, and Greece have reached an agreement overnight...Greece will remain within the Euro.

In exchange for crushing austerity and liquidation of state owned assets.

The near future is going to suck for Greece anyway you slice it.

 

[kallipolis]

In exchange for crushing austerity and liquidation of state owned assets.

The near future is going to suck for Greece anyway you slice it.

Tough years ahead in a German controlled Europe...

 

[hotatlboi]

Tough years ahead in a German controlled Europe...

 

[T-Rexx]

Tough years ahead in a German controlled Europe...

I suspect that Angela Merkel's treatment of Greece is the beginning of the end of the euro.

While she now has a signed agreement with Greece, this is not a resolution of the problem. The austerity measures in Greece have not worked and have destroyed the economy there. Merkel has pretty much alienated the entire south of Europe, as well as France. 60% of French citizens in the latest poll would prefer that France pull out of the E.U. Growth in Italy, which was robust up to the time of adoption of the euro, has been essentially been 0% since 1999.

The euro has been fantastic for Germany, but it has been a disaster for most of the rest of Europe. It simply does not work to have Germany dictating economic policy to countries with which it is competing economically.