So whose fault is it? [Trump presidency]

[TX-Beau]

To correct the above I meant that I remembered the repeal of Don't Ask Don't Tell, not as a result of Biden's comments, but as a milestone by the Democrats in shoving the oh so scary radical homosexual rights agenda down the throats of right wingers.

And of course Obergefell, which has led to the invalidation of heterosexual marriage in the US and to people marrying animals.

Certainly, that is how it was (is?) painted by all the right wingers decrying the radical homosexual agenda of the apparently highly organized 'Radical Homosexual' cabal.

You know, the same ones saying that trans people have a valid right to exist.

Ahhh yes, the heady days of the Gay Agenda. We were so very powerful. I myself sent all those tornados at all of those trailer parks.

 

[TX-Beau]

https://nypost.com/2023/12/15/news/...ed-pool-locker-room-with-young-girls-at-race/
Audtey Hale and her manifesto the MSM hid from the publc,, they should have reported it and tried to explain what led up to her doing it. The manifesto was leaked all over twitter and people think worse of it because the MSM covered it up. The drag parade in NYC last year with hundreds of people marching and shouting Were coming for your kids. I realize they did it in jest but people with kids do not know that. Trans people should have the same protections as any one else.

New York Post.

You do remember that Rupert just had to pay $80000000.00 because his media empire outright lies,

 

[johaninsc]

When Trump is restored in 2025 remember this attitude helped get him there. This my way or you are evil does not win elections.

 

[rareboy]

Ahhh yes, the heady days of the Gay Agenda. We were so very powerful. I myself sent all those tornados at all of those trailer parks.

It was so much sinmpler then.

Everyone hated us because we had invented AIDS, so the best defense was a strong offense.

It was all part of our secret 'Homosexual Agenda' that would eventually ensure that trans people would guarantee that America was governed by a raving lunatic who would attempt to overthrow democracy and allow 30% of the country to enact laws that would make them bow down to their bronze age imaginary friend.

 

[DantheManFL]

As to the Electoral College... I'm no scholar of early American history, but the same issues of representation were troubling to the early framers as well. How to balance the voice and votes of urban voters with those of their rural compatriots. The smaller states had to be made feel that their citizens votes weren't going to be overwhelmed by the those of larger states and populations. The urban-rural divide has always been there.

If we go to direct popular vote, it's likely thar large urban centers will decide the election in most cases.

Here's another thought- the 2000 election was marred by the discrepancy of the votes in one county in one state.

Imagine an election where the difference in the vote count 34,000- in a country of millions of voters. This would likely trigger a recount- so would every vote in the county need to be recounted? What if the difference were 6,000? Would we all have to vote again?

One citizen one vote in 5th century Athens may have worked well. How do we manage that on such a large scale?

Wow, you don't understand this at all. Every single election in this country is one citizen one vote, except the presidential election. We have the technology.

 

[DantheManFL]

 

[cityboy-stl]

I still say the problem with the Electoral College is not the EC itself, but the winner-take-all methodology for awarding a state's electoral votes. EC votes should be awarded proportionally. For the top two vote getters nationally, you then go state by state. If a candidate A receives 46% of a particular state's popular vote, they get 46% of that state's EC vote, candidate B gets 54%. Then you total up the states. A candidate still has to reach 270 to win. As long as we're talking about changing the EC, there is no reason you also could not change person "electors" to just a simple count. A state can then proportionally award 46.26% (for example) of its electoral count to fairly account for an uneven percentage. That also eliminates the problem/possibility of "fake electors".

It solves all the problems. Every vote by an individual counts toward a vote in the EC (unless you vote for a nobody). When totaled up, the EC proportionally reflects the actual national popular vote. It takes away the power of big states to control the election, but still gives them their fair voice. It reflects a broader national consensus and gives fair voice to those in smaller states. Candidates must campaign and address issues in all the states to reach the winning 270. It's actually fair and faithful to vote of the people across the land.

If we awarded proportionally in this manner, only 1 Florida electoral vote in 2000 would have been in dispute, instead of all 25. Gore would have won in 2000. Hillary would have won in 2016.

Nobody will like this, though. I know it's not going to happen. But it would work and it would be fair. Who wants that?

 

[LilBit]

I am not saying it is true, to people who don't believe every word the MSM says they believe it was hidden. The videos of the march shown all over the web including Twitter make it look like everyone was going along and they zoom in on Transsexuals and drag queens with beards. Is it right they do that no. Does it scare people who don't know any better yes. There needs to be a lot more education, The article shows where a 50-year-old man showers and competes with underage teenage girls, and most people outside of the Gay community and some in it think that should be illegal. I don't know what the answer is, but I think this issue will help put Trump in the White House. Biden did push the Trans agenda hard. I am sure I will be banned also, just remember not everyone lives in a fantasy world where everything is perfect all the time. 4 years of Trump with this SCOTUS and maybe you might see things a little differently.

So... Rather than blaming trans people and drag queens, shouldn't we be placing the blame on the people who misrepresent trans people and drag queens, rather than blaming the victims of a carefully orchestrated misinformation campaign?

 

[Caracara]

Wow, you don't understand this at all. Every single election in this country is one citizen one vote, except the presidential election. We have the technology.

Thanks much for your kind words on my understanding..... however, if you could give me an example of any direct election in the country that entails so many votes from so many precincts all needed to be tallied and certified ASAP as the presidential election, that might clarify. Some areas may have the technology, but I cannot be as confident as you are on the national level.

 

[Caracara]

Again, in reference to the one citizen vote on the presidential level, we have seen the Presidency evolve into much more than simply the Executive Branch. We are far more invested in our presidential candidates than that of any senator or governor. We have come to see them as some sort of supreme leader, and we get pretty worked up about the election. Thus, my concern if, on the national level, a presidential candidate wins on the slimmest of votes, there will be uncertainty that can become chaos pretty quickly. The question will always be- are these results accurate? Were errors made? And if so, where do we begin to search for possible irregularities?

There are not many magnanimous Al Gores out there in politics land.

 

[rareboy]

If the US had one citizen one vote for direct election of the President, the GQP knows that they would never get another chance at the White House.

 

[NotHardUp1]

The take-it-or-lose it force feeding of the electorate is indeed the recipe for loss in November.

Biden's influence to squelch his own party's rejection of him is a disaster.

George Clooney's comment today crediting Biden with saving America in 2020, and appealing to him to do it again in 2024 by withdrawing is dead on.

The Democratic coalition is a fragile one, far more so than the GOP's at this point. Knowing that it is deeply divided by the fumbling Commander-in-Chief is certain to see enough people not vote on that office, or stay home, giving the win to Trump.

And it will be the Democratic Party's fault for closing ranks around a certain loser. NOTHING Biden can do after than phase out can matter, as intermittent competence is not the standard. The fact that Pelosi put her foot in the door today as well as in her mouth is proof the party, at the highest levels, is not behind the nominee.

And the food fight in this thread about transexuals is symptomatic of how disastrously wrong the PC police are around this issue. LGBTQ is a political caucus, not a creed, not a an affirmation of articles of faith to be gay. The constituents of that alphabet do not even all support gender reassignment surgery, much less the population at large. Pretending that is some absolute litmus test is simply delusional.

 

[johaninsc]

 

[NotHardUp1]

Anyone awake already knew that this election would be contested.

If Biden wins, Trump and his cronies have already made it clear that they would call it an unfair election. That's Trump's standard. He loses, then it's unfair.

For Democrats, they are in peril. Although Fox's war machine began attacking Biden's lucidity far before it became relevant, it IS relevant now, and cannot be a complete surprise to the kingmakers. That they allowed it to get this far in their party is evidence the party isn't likely strong enough to fend off the GOP, and there will be Democrats bringing lawsuits due to the late horse-change, which now seems imminent.

At best, there will be a contested convention. At worst, disintegration.

There Republicans are no longer the Grand Old Party, but the Democrats appear to be willing to identify as jackasses.

And America will deserve its fate for prolonging and tolerating the 2-party shenanigans like gerrymandering, committee control, and court packing rather than meritocracy.

Biden was a patch. It's now worn out and the fix is not to keep the patch.

The retort that those opposing Biden have/had a duty to be campaigning for him is ludicrous. There was a resistance to his re-election before he ever announced. Like all bad executives, he has the ability to hear what he prefers instead of the truth. If the government falls, it will no longer be laid at Donatd Trump's feet only. Look back at history. The tsar was blamed for ignoring the crisis until too late. We are at a similar juncture.

 

[me203]

Although Fox's war machine began attacking Biden's lucidity far before it became relevant, it IS relevant now, and cannot be a complete surprise to the kingmakers

I don't know when Fox might have started these attacks, but I sure know that there was questioning of Biden's cognitive ability in 2020. I remember getting attacked when I brought it up, because I was "brainwashed" by Fox--even though I paid little attention to Fox. The only way I'd have seen Fox news clips back then is if those clips were included on a left-leaning independent journalist's video. (I am feeling just a bit vindicated now that my unspeakable belief is suddenly become accepted mainstream.) It was instructive in 2020 watching then-current Biden video, and comparing to video dating to his era as VP. It was a stark contrast. A lot of people tried to tell me how he'd always had verbal "gaffes." Yeah, right. In 2020, there were times he had trouble putting a sentence together that made sense. Some commentators even made a point of this by haivng the sentence put into text, which they included in their videos, with an invitation to try to read that setence and make sense of it. I think that infamous "record player" line might have been one of those featured sentences, although I can't I remember for sure now

And that commentary about his decline never stopped, and since the election, I've even heard some people raising the question of who is really president?

The only thing that has changed in the last couple of weeks is that horrible debate, which gave normal people good reason to suddenly start questioning what is going on. Glenn Greenwald has made a point that normal people have experience with older family members with decline, and they can see that experience reflected by one of the men on that debate stage.

One thing I'm wondering--although this is not my original thought--is whether there weren't people in the background who want to dump Biden and replace him with someone else didn't push for that debate, in hopes that it would end up an unmitigated disaster that would help unseat Biden.

 

[me203]

And America will deserve its fate for prolonging and tolerating the 2-party shenanigans like gerrymandering, committee control, and court packing rather than meritocracy.

Meritocracy is still a huge motivating factor driving politics. The problem is that the meritocracy that gets one ahead is not doing good for the country or the citizens. It's doing what the party needs. It's serving special interests that the parties are beholden to. That sort of thing.

 

[me203]

willing to identify as jackasses.

But the big checks/power/influence probably take a lot of the sting of being seen as a jackass away!

 

[NotHardUp1]

I don't know when Fox might have started these attacks, but I sure know that there was questioning of Biden's cognitive ability in 2020. I remember getting attacked when I brought it up, because I was "brainwashed" by Fox--even though I paid little attention to Fox. The only way I'd have seen Fox news clips back then is if those clips were included on a left-leaning independent journalist's video. (I am feeling just a bit vindicated now that my unspeakable belief is suddenly become accepted mainstream.) It was instructive in 2020 watching then-current Biden video, and comparing to video dating to his era as VP. It was a stark contrast. A lot of people tried to tell me how he'd always had verbal "gaffes." Yeah, right. In 2020, there were times he had trouble putting a sentence together that made sense. Some commentators even made a point of this by haivng the sentence put into text, which they included in their videos, with an invitation to try to read that setence and make sense of it. I think that infamous "record player" line might have been one of those featured sentences, although I can't I remember for sure now

And that commentary about his decline never stopped, and since the election, I've even heard some people raising the question of who is really president?

The only thing that has changed in the last couple of weeks is that horrible debate, which gave normal people good reason to suddenly start questioning what is going on. Glenn Greenwald has made a point that normal people have experience with older family members with decline, and they can see that experience reflected by one of the men on that debate stage.

One thing I'm wondering--although this is not my original thought--is whether there weren't people in the background who want to dump Biden and replace him with someone else didn't push for that debate, in hopes that it would end up an unmitigated disaster that would help unseat Biden.

I never see Fox either, but through third parties.

I remember Trumpies attacking Biden from Day 1 of his term online, on YouTube, on Reddit, on 9gag, anywhere they could get a swipe in, on the baais of multiple false claims. They tried and tried and tried to depict him as a pedophile, claiming he hugged teenage girls and children too long, and smelled of them inapprorpriately. It was truly a pathetic attempt at slurring him, and was only credited by idiots or the extremists who were angry at the thwarted January 6th.

But, they also banged away with claims of senility. Looking at 2019 and 2020, he clearly was not senile. Yes, he fumbled for words. Yes, he tired on the campaign trail, but the clips of him allegedly wandering off or incoherent were always edited and cropped and manipulated to make something appear true that was a lie.

However, every single president in office has declined noticeably in those four years. It's a demaning job, and moreso for those doing it diligently, less so for those who spent a lot of time on the golf links.

The decline for Biden was through the barriere between slow and mispoken to confusesd and trying to recover from denial after overt failure, a common position for the senile.

It is a credit to Biden that his dethroners are praising him, giving him every laurel wreath possible. And yes, there were hard left members who worked ceaselessly from his first day in office to ensure he was seen as not progressive enough for them, but they were easy to ignore when realists remind us that there are always dissatisfied extremists. The fact that Senator Sanders, then and now, remained supportive, indicated that rational minds found his policies acceptable.

But, he's finished. And he's tarnishing his own legacy by becoming the pants-on-the-ground old geezer.

The Fox bunch just chipped away at a weakness which grew to be true, but wasn't when they were pushing it so hard.

But the big checks/power/influence probably take a lot of the sting of being seen as a jackass away!

The elephant and the jackass really have both faded away, as animal mascots have less resonance now. They really died out in the 1970's, but were big back before television.

 

[me203]

But, they also banged away with claims of senility. Looking at 2019 and 2020, he clearly was not senile. Yes, he fumbled for words. Yes, he tired on the campaign trail, but the clips of him allegedly wandering off or incoherent were always edited and cropped and manipulated to make something appear true that was a lie.

The limited comparisons I did in 2020 concerned me. But then I have to admit they were limited comparisons.

At least one left leaning commentator (Kyle Kulinski) voiced concerns about Biden as well.

But...it's also difficult given how our judgment is so heavily based on observation at at a distance. Someone might pick up on something that someone else sees meaningless. Or else someone might think they are picking up on a problem that really isn't there.

It is a credit to Biden that his dethroners are praising him, giving him every laurel wreath possible.

Perhaps it does sound nice and is certainly political.

But I don't believe Biden deserves all those laurels. I watched a Glenn Greenwald clip last night, discussing a lot of the ugly stuff that Biden did during his long career. Such as pushing harsh penalties on drug users (specifically a drug that was popular among black people, which adds a touch of racism). He was interested in cutting Social Security. And this clip didn't even get to the question of Tara Reade, who alleged sexual misconduct. I still remember the brief moment this was discussed how fascinating it was that every high profile woman on the left who--with Brett Kavanaugh--insisted that the woman had to be listened to decided this didn't matter when the allegations were someone they wanted to prop up.

Is Joe Biden a "Good and Decent Man?"

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And yes, there were hard left members who worked ceaselessly from his first day in office to ensure he was seen as not progressive enough for them, but they were easy to ignore when realists remind us that there are always dissatisfied extremists.

The thing is he was never a progressive that I know of. Indeed, that seems likely why he was selected by Obama--to create an image of "balance" at a time when Obama was pretending to be something other than Ronald Reagan Lite.

The fact that Senator Sanders, then and now, remained supportive, indicated that rational minds found his policies acceptable.

Maybe, maybe not. There are some allegations on the left that something happened in the background to apply pressure to Sanders to conform or else.

In any case, Sanders is--for me--just another disappointment. He generated a lot of enthusiasm. He pushed a lot of ideas--and while I don't know that I agree with all his proposals, I think there was a lot worth discussing. And then, all this got thrown away. He embraced the "Democratic" Party without asking any real questions (past vague comments in e-mails that I still get about "doing better.") He certainly got no meaningful concessions from either Clinton or Biden when he left the race in 2016 and 2020. Both Biden and Clinton had corporate asses to kiss, of course, but there must have been some meaningful acts that they could committ to without pissing off their overlords too much.

But, he's finished. And he's tarnishing his own legacy by becoming the pants-on-the-ground old geezer.

For me, his legacy was tarnished before now. The only way I'd have a positive view of Biden is if he had left politics in 2016 for good. At that point, I could have at least remembered him as the VP who seemed on camera like a likeable person.

 

[NotHardUp1]

Maybe, maybe not. There are some allegations on the left that something happened in the background to apply pressure to Sanders to conform or else.

In any case, Sanders is--for me--just another disappointment. He generated a lot of enthusiasm. He pushed a lot of ideas--and while I don't know that I agree with all his proposals, I think there was a lot worth discussing. And then, all this got thrown away. He embraced the "Democratic" Party without asking any real questions (past vague comments in e-mails that I still get about "doing better.") He certainly got no meaningful concessions from either Clinton or Biden when he left the race in 2016 and 2020. Both Biden and Clinton had corporate asses to kiss, of course, but there must have been some meaningful acts that they could committ to without pissing off their overlords too much.

I don't follow the "or else" meaning.

Sanders is not a Democrat. They need him a lot more than he needs them.

He's relentlessly pro-labor. Biden has been overtly pro-labor. Sanders has no one else to dance with but the Democrats, as there are no other parties, and the GOP has been anti-working class for a century now. And anti-women, outside their role as cook, brood mare, and goddess of the hearth.

Biden has never been anyone's paragon, just a career politician who screwed the pooch back when he was young and missed the White House because of it. He indeed road on Obama's coattails this time around, and that was just as racist as any anti-drug policy, as black voters have increasingly stayed home post-Obama.

The strategists simply saw Biden's stiff and muddled early on, and amplified it until it became unmistakable.

He needs to drop out now. The longer he tarries, the less chance the Democrats will have to get on the ballots in time.