Survivor - Fans vs. Favorites

[slipintothefog]

A great explanation like this deserves a church hand.

Because I'm actually at my computer now:

 

[BreakTheIce]

This show needs more people to flip out in tribal

^epic

 

[Spiff]

Erik the balless wonder

Ain't that the truth. I think he's cute, aside from him apparently having no balls. He's basically a wallflower.

 

[Rubber Rat]

I think Shambo should be asked back for another season.

 

[slipintothefog]

She has, and she's declined.

 

[Ekim23]

Right, I was trying to say that there's more to winning than just being "nice" or not being the one nobody wants to win. Mick wasn't Russell and he was probably considered "nice" which a lot of anti-Natalie fans try to argue as the only reason she won, but what they always miss is that the jury didn't respect the game of either male finalist. Natalie was in with most of the Galu women and Brett and the edit showcased that while also showing how A) Mick didn't know a fucking thing about anyone with his complete failure to answer Brett's "bro date" question and B) nobody respected Russell for being a sociopath.

While it does take more than being "nice," it's still a lot easier to win with Natalie or Caramoan Brenda's strategy of playing nice than it is to burn everyone and make the entire jury hate you (Phillip, Russell, et al). However in addition to being nice you also need to be respected, which is why Amanda lost twice and which also goes back to what Pepper was saying about Dawn, who is clearly a nice woman but her backstabbing game and mental instability is making many doubt her ability to win.

Well I wrote it very wrong but thats what I was trying to say. Yeah Ntalie got votes coz they didnt want russel l to win but also for all the reasons u say. I know that it takes much more than just being nice. She flew under the radar and let russell took the heat while she was just next to him.

I mean there's a lot of talks about her win, but to me it's one of the most satisfying wins too. Muche better than a dumb bob from Gabon

Bottom Line. I agree with u lol

 

[Sgt Pepper]

Muche better than a dumb bob from Gabon

Total co-sign. Bob winning took all the air out of what was up until then a very entertaining season for me.

CrystalCox4Ever!

 

[slipintothefog]

As bad as Bob was -- probably #24 out of 25 winners on my list, with PI Sandra and HvV Sandra at #1 and #2, naturally -- I still think he was a better, more satisfying winner than Fabio. Bob was in an alliance and the edit highlighted the fact that he was well-liked. Jud... won three immunities in the end and then won the game 5-4 for reasons that still mystify me, because the edit didn't support Na'onka voting for him at ALL.

And that's even without getting into all of the ramifications of the double quit and whether some think that they shouldn't have been able to vote at FTC. (Which I think that they should have, but that was still an idea that the fans and even the production staff tossed around after it happened.)

 

[Sgt Pepper]

I agree that Naonka's vote was not telegraphed but I do think they gave us a few hints that Fabio would win. As you may remember I called it from the premiere when they had that shot of him saying, "I'm gonna coast to the million dollars!"

There are lots of bad/lame/disappointing winners and Bob is certainly among them. I know he was well-liked, but I personally found Bob as smug and insufferable as the other assholes he was aligned with. At least Fabio didn't seem like a bad guy, just a boring one. Plus Nicaragua was such a hot mess of a season, it didn't feel like much of a letdown when Fabio won, whereas Gabon was SO good up until the end when Sugar inexplicably started playing for Bob to win.

The worst winner for me personally is Todd on China who masterminded nothing but kept taking about what a mastermind he was and everyone just bought the hype. There were even times when he actively did things to ruin his own game (like giving James two immunity idols) and other people had to clean up his mess for him (Amanda pushing to blindside James).

Plus, if they had kept the F2 format, whoever won the last immunity would've taken Courtney to the end and she would've won.

 

[Sgt Pepper]

PI Sandra and HvV Sandra at #1 and #2, naturally

You know I LOVE Sandra too, but the only reason she's #2 and #3 for me (the reverse of yours because for me HvV gets the edge for her putting Russell in his place) is because I heart this beautiful man.



Good god he's PERFECT. He may just be the most well-adjusted, intellectually inclined, politically aware, civic-minded contestant this show has ever had. Also this:

 

[gaystorm]

Iam going to have to way disagree with you on Natalie winning just because she is nice. If you can add an and in, then that was not the only reason she won. May I remind you that the first jury member, Eric, jumped up and told all the reasons she should win. Perhaps by saying Russel was a slime ball, he was saying Natalie was nice, but she had a great social game too. So, she did not just win by being nice. Not one Survivor has won that way. With no gameplay (Brenda), there is no winning.


Do not discount Dawn. She is the reason Corinne is gone. Phillip might reward her for that. Also, if Eddie made it, I doubt he would gain more votes than the two people who he blindly followed the whole game. Andrea has already voted for a person who played a strong game over a person who was her nice friend. She will vote for who took her out. If you think Eddie will win or has a chance to, then you are not a true fan at all.

 

[BreakTheIce]

People do vote for nice, as long as they have a good argument to the jury. Natalie won because she wasn't vicious like Russell in her gameplay (even though she voted with him every time) and had the superior social game both Mick and Russell didn't have.

If you can add an and in, then that was not the only reason she won.

This makes no sense. If a person is just nice and nothing else, they are not even human. Who the hell is just nice? Name one person in the entire universe who is just nice and nothing else. Personality isn't 2 dimensional. It's more complicated than that.

This can also be used to say people don't vote for someone who just plays hard. Because if that was the case Russell or Parvati would have won HvV. There are ands involved. Every single winner in this game has won for more than 1 reason. Natalie won for a number of reasons, but she was nice to people, and did win. So people do vote for nice. But there are obviously other factors whichever way you look at it.

You're voting for a person, not a basic color. It's not like the jury is deciding between green, blue, and red.

@ recent episode...

Was busy all week so finally got around to watching it.

- Reynold needs to stop sporting just a mustache.
- Andrea's blind-slide was awesome.
- They need to stop voting out eye candy.

 

[Wcw10891]

Rubber Rat: I think Shambo should be asked back for another season.

She was actually asked back for this season, but turned it down, the common reason is that she had a great time the first time around, but she wouldnt do it again. sucks, also Matt from redemption island turned the offer down, they wanted to ask Lisa back, but thought it was wrong since she is a mom and back to back seasons is tough.

 

[slipintothefog]

You know I LOVE Sandra too, but the only reason she's #2 and #3 for me (the reverse of yours because for me HvV gets the edge for her putting Russell in his place) is because I heart this beautiful man.

I am so conflicted on Yul. On one hand I definitely think that the producers fudged a little bit of Cook Islands to prevent the PR nightmare that would be the all white people + Nate alliance from winning the racially divided season. And Yul also had that ridiculously overpowered Immunity Idol that had different rules than all other seasons that proceeded his. But on the other hand, him winning against Ozzy who had no game at all was beyond satisfying. However, and worst of all for me, is that in hindsight Yul's personality was awful for TV. Nice guy, and definitely classy, but good god he was about as interesting as carpet lint.

Earl's win was probably more impressive for me, since he won in the finals unanimously and he did it without the broken HII or questionable production interferences like the bottle twist. But again, he was about as interesting to me as Yul was, and I didn't hate the thought of Cassandra (the default second-placer over Dreamz) winning as much as Ozzy. Either of Yul and Earl are still miles above Bob and Fabio though, IMO.

Chase would have been possibly my favorite man to ever win Survivor if he'd won, which makes Fabio's victory all that more frustrating for me personally.

 

[Sgt Pepper]

Hmm, I don't remember much about Chase besides the fact that he was SMOKING HOT. Was he really that interesting/fun? What am I forgetting? I would've preferred him over Fabio too though. Thanks a lot Naonka, you fucking crazy bitch.

 

[gaystorm]

You are not understanding what I am saying at all. It was Natalie's social game that helped her win, not her kind personality alone. That is all we are seeing of Brenda right now is a happy, kind person. Then, we see her do well at challenges. And how often does the person win who won more than three immunity challenges? Can we say Tom vs. Katie?

Do not for one moment discredit Sandra's game play, saying that Parvati and Russel played harder. While all three played hard, Parvati lost her main girl in a social blunder and Russel took people out without any care to the vote. Sandra is the sneaky player. She lost her alliance to them playing dumbly. She went in showing the heroes exactly who Russel was and they did not even listen to her. She set up a great end just with that. Also, she is the only person to ever hold a hiden immunity idol with no one else knowing about it whatsoever, which built mistrust between Russel and Parvati. She played a very hard game that season and was rewarded for it.

 

[BreakTheIce]

You are not understanding what I am saying at all. It was Natalie's social game that helped her win, not her kind personality alone.

Her social game was being nice & kind to other people. To say the two are mutually exclusive makes no sense.

What you're saying is so generic, it can be applied to every winner.

"It was Natalie's social game that helped her win, not her kind personality alone."
"It was (enter winner name)'s (enter game type) game that helped (him/her) win, not (his/her) (enter other aspect here) alone."

^Applies to everyone.

But in Natalie's case, you cannot deny that she was nice to people all the time. Both on her tribe and post-merge too. She did make some strategic moves herself. Most importantly getting Erik out first vote post-merge and deciding to stick with her Foa Foa alliance even when Laura was convinced she'd join Galu's numbers.

But you contradict yourself when you say people don't vote for nice. Everyone had a social game. Natalie's social game was better than Russell and Mick's because she was nice to people in the way she built relationships with them. Russell's social game was more about lying to people and giving them false promises only to blindside them later. Mick's social game was coasting by as without trying to do ANYTHING to anybody so that he could say "I've the best character out here".

Natatlie's social game WAS being nice and letting people think they should take her along to the end and having them assume she didn't have a chance in hell of winning. They all had a social game. The reason she was victorious was because she had the best social game (being nice).

 

[BetinaNungging]

Hmm, I don't remember much about Chase besides the fact that he was SMOKING HOT. Was he really that interesting/fun? What am I forgetting? I would've preferred him over Fabio too though. Thanks a lot Naonka, you fucking crazy bitch.

Chase is now chasing his country music career
I dont mind for another Benry

 

[Ekim23]

As bad as Bob was -- probably #24 out of 25 winners on my list, with PI Sandra and HvV Sandra at #1 and #2, naturally -- I still think he was a better, more satisfying winner than Fabio. Bob was in an alliance and the edit highlighted the fact that he was well-liked. Jud... won three immunities in the end and then won the game 5-4 for reasons that still mystify me, because the edit didn't support Na'onka voting for him at ALL.

And that's even without getting into all of the ramifications of the double quit and whether some think that they shouldn't have been able to vote at FTC. (Which I think that they should have, but that was still an idea that the fans and even the production staff tossed around after it happened.)

I agree with everything u said but like Sgt Pepper for me HvsV's sandra was much better than PI.

To each its own I guess. If I'd have to rank the winners I think that
At the top I'd put : Sandra / Yul / Parvati / Natalie / Richard & JT
At the Bottom : Bob / Fabio / Sophie / Vecepia / Danni & Todd

But again thats just me

 

[slipintothefog]

I preferred Sandra's PI edit over her HvV for multiple reasons. Number one is that she barely even existed for the entire first half of HvV while the show was busy masturbating over the tedious Boston Rob vs. Russell storyline. And then once Rob was voted out, Sandra's entire storyline was boiled down to getting revenge on Russell with side doses of her husband being in Afghanistan and her loving Outback Steakhouse. She seemed like she had more layers in Pearl Islands, or at least they showed a lot more of her funnier bits in that season. "She liked her... in a sexual way," "I CAN GET LOUD TOO WHAT THE FUCK!!" "I kept saying to [Fairplay] I swear, I swear... when really, under my breath, I was saying I swear I'm gonna screw you ANDDDD Burton!," Sandra spying on people in the bushes and Sandra ripping apart Morgan's shelter to get the tarp were all instant Sandra classics.

Vecepia's game is actually a lot like Sandra's, strategically. The difference between them is that Vecepia is much better at challenges than Sandra while also being a fuckton more boring. So that's why Sandra would be in the top spot for me while somebody who played a very similar game without the personality would be 10-15 spots below her.

Pepper, I need to modify my statement because Richard Hatch will always be my favorite male winner. But I thought Chase was interesting because in addition to being hot, I found it refreshing to see a younger man who was sweet and caring actually have to struggle with the dilemmas of voting out his friends (and for the most part, he did). I loved his relationship with Brenda, I thought he defended himself very well at final tribal council, and he was basically in the loop for the strategy during the entire game so I would have found him a much more appropriate/satisfying winner than Fabio who was basically stumbled his way through the double quit, won some immunities and then won the game. His story was just so blah and empty no matter how much the editors tried to splice together confessionals about his super-genuis strategy being to "act stupid and then lay back and be cool." :vomit