The Sacred and the Profane

[NotHardUp1]

Watching the American and UK editions of the Antiques Roadshow, I often hear guests comment on art pieces that they do not particularly like, but inherited or merely tolerated because a spouse dragged the item home.

Repeatedly, when the piece appraises for a high sum of money, comments ensue like "it looks a lot better to me now" or "it deserves a place of honor instead of hanging in my bathroom."

One such appraisal just now aired featured a sterling silver coronet from the mid-1800's. It was the finest of its kind the appraiser had ever seen. The owner's ancestors had kept it in the family for four generations, the original owner being a family member who served in the Civil War and played the horn. The owner noted solemnly that, it being an heirloom, he had never considered its value, as it could never be sold.

The appraiser estimated $35,000.

Immediately the owner sputtered, grinned, and only half-jokingly announced, "It's for sale NOW!"

It's interesting to see where families draw the line between invaluable and liquidatable.

Has your family ever made such a calculation? How do you feel about legacies versus material benefits?

 

[unloadonme]

Coronet or cornet?

 

[unloadonme]

I have a pair of oil paintings which I inherited from my grandparents. They're not worth a great deal, maybe £5,000 to £10,000. I wouldn't have chosen to buy them had I seen them for sale, but, having inherited them, and as they've been part of the background to many family occasions over the years, they'll remain on my walls for the rest of my life. My only difficulty is to think which of my family in the next generation might appreciate them after I'm gone.

 

[me203]

As the one quote, which I've seen attributed to Oscar Wilde, points out: “A cynic is a man who knows the price of everything, and the value of nothing.”

​

 

[me203]

My family has little likelihood of having any particularly valuable heirlooms. There are some things once owned by my grandmother that would be saleable in an antique shop. (Hell, it's getting a point where her grandson is afraid of entering an antique shop for fear of being restrained, with a price tag slapped on his forehead. ) But I truly doubt anything would be worthy of a trip to visit Sotheby's. Past that, the current owners of those items are comfortably off. Although what happens when my generation (namely my cousins) inherits those items is another question.

 

[me203]

Repeatedly, when the piece appraises for a high sum of money, comments ensue like "it looks a lot better to me now"

Ah, the power of money at work...

Although, to be fair, past the fact that money is so important in our society, these valuations do send a signal that the time has some other value of importance.

It's interesting to see where families draw the line between invaluable and liquidatable.

One thing (pretty obvious but worth noting): one issue of importance is the family and their circumstances. There are probably cases where someone felt that the gold plated chamber pot could never, ever be sold--but found out it was valuable and decided it was more important to be able to (say) acquire a reliable care to get to work than hold onto a family heirloom.

 

[me203]

instead of hanging in my bathroom."

I suppose it depends on your view. Some might feel that no bathroom is complete without a nice Van Gogh or two hanging on the walls...

 

[NotHardUp1]

There are probably cases where someone felt that the gold plated chamber pot could never, ever be sold--but found out it was valuable and decided it was more important to be able to (say) acquire a reliable care to get to work than hold onto a family heirloom.

Most of the cases I've seen, the owner is just a middle class Brit or American. The money wouldn't change their lives, only their degree of expendable income.

 

[Alistair]

This was addressed on one of the episodes where they revisit some of the past episodes. They said that a lot of people ended up selling the items because of the expense of keeping the item. Insurance was too expensive, or they were afraid that the item would be damaged and they felt it would honor the piece more by passing it on to someone that could take care of it better.

 

[EddMarkStarr]

From childhood I remember every family had a fine china and/or silver table service proudly on display in an elegant china cabinet.
Such family treasures are lost in an era where entertaining guests has become a thing of the past.

 

[me203]

From childhood I remember every family had a fine china and/or silver table service proudly on display in an elegant china cabinet.

And not necessarily just displayed, but also used upon occasion. At least by some. One of my grandmothers did have stuff on display that was display only, but I'd guess the other one did use the more formal stuff somewhat regularly.

Such family treasures are lost in an era where entertaining guests has become a thing of the past.

And then, too, when people enteretain now they are more likely to want stuff that is dishwasher safe. I'm not set up for entertaining where I live now, but I have to admit that as much as I like the idea of fine china, even I would opt for something that could go through a dishwasher without worry.

 

[me203]

This was addressed on one of the episodes where they revisit some of the past episodes. They said that a lot of people ended up selling the items because of the expense of keeping the item. Insurance was too expensive, or they were afraid that the item would be damaged and they felt it would honor the piece more by passing it on to someone that could take care of it better.

Makes sense. And I could see myself making this decison for one or more of these reasons. (Plus there is the fact that I'm the end of the line. It's bad enough thinking of the big estate sale that will be held one day of what I do have, without adding some rarity.)

 

[NotHardUp1]

This was addressed on one of the episodes where they revisit some of the past episodes. They said that a lot of people ended up selling the items because of the expense of keeping the item. Insurance was too expensive, or they were afraid that the item would be damaged and they felt it would honor the piece more by passing it on to someone that could take care of it better.

I saw that episode, but I guess I'm thinking of valuations that were not astronomic. A bauble, painting, or article that is only worth a few thousand dollars, and far less than an automobile (in most appraisals) can't be a big burden or worry. Having a $35k coronet can't be a big item to insure, but more importantly, cannot be replaced as an heirloom.

The question goes to, is having the item your ancestors touched and cherished as part of their lives, more important than cashing in on the subsequent value as a collectible. If a fire, tornado, or thief were to take the coronet, would having it insured be of importance relative to the loss of an irreplaceable heirloom?

Maybe having the memory of the artifacts is enough for some individuals or families. But, for many, that personal, tactile item is treasured, and the dosh is not relevant, not really.

I'm sure it may also speak to the disintegration of extended family bonds over time in society. I have relatives who certainly cannot name their cousins, much less ancestors. With such weakened connections due to mobility of society and increased drive to individual entertainment and gaming, heirlooms mean far less than they did to generations that sat and talked to grandparents and great-grandparents and learned family lore.

If those ancestors are reduced to just funny old photos and faded print materials, then they don't mean much in any personal way.

 

[unloadonme]

Coronet or cornet?

Alright, as you've said coronet twice now, I've googled it. It's a cornet. Specifically, an 1861 E G Wright example with a letter no less.

1861 E.G. Wright Cornet with Letter

Appraisal: 1861 E.G. Wright Silver Cornet with Letter, from Kansas City Hour 2.

www.pbs.org

 

[rareboy]

We are leaving it to the next generation to sort out.

We don't even insure most of this stuff, because it isn't like we could or would ever replace items or artwork and money wouldn't make me feel better about the loss.

I am always intrigued by the sudden affection that someone has for a piece if they think it has more monetary valuethan they had imagined.

In the meantime, we continue to use all our china and silver for every family dinner because it is beautiful and pleases us and our guests that the effort is made.

 

[Peloso]

It has long been a tradition in my family to pass along it's three primary tenets: bigotry, alcoholism and mental illness. I rejected the first, escaped the second, and made do with the third. I suppose that's pretty honorable.

 

[Harke the Boeotarch]

Alright, as you've said coronet twice now, I've googled it. It's a cornet. Specifically, an 1861 E G Wright example with a letter no less.

1861 E.G. Wright Cornet with Letter

Appraisal: 1861 E.G. Wright Silver Cornet with Letter, from Kansas City Hour 2.

www.pbs.org

Jack had us watch this wonderful movie...
...then my mother and I (Dutch) watched.

The ideosyncracies of the British nobility were not lost on us.

Imagine this movie came out when Jack was nine!

 

[rareboy]

^ still a favourite of ours.

 

[unloadonme]

Mine too. Love that film.

 

[NotHardUp1]

Alright, as you've said coronet twice now, I've googled it. It's a cornet. Specifically, an 1861 E G Wright example with a letter no less.

1861 E.G. Wright Cornet with Letter

Appraisal: 1861 E.G. Wright Silver Cornet with Letter, from Kansas City Hour 2.

www.pbs.org

Thank you for the catch. I apologize for the blunder.

I should know that from being in band, much less the English degree, but everyone says "coronet" here, like they similarly mispronounce nuclear and realtor.

But, that's a pet peeve of mine as well. And I hope always to have someone correct me when I err. If we all keep at it, we might save grammar yet.

If I'd gotten to take Latin when I wanted to, I think I would have remembered that coronet was a crown, but I didn't and it is rarely used in America for anything, but that's not a good excuse. My mother was against us taking Latin, and blocked me when I tried. I think she was just being passive aggressive because her mother taught Latin and other subjects, so it was reactionary.

Again, thanks.

It surely doesn't look like $35k, but that's what he appraised.