Venezuela Helps Americans Heat Their Homes: "Gracias, Sr. Chavez!"

[Claudio63]

Now if he'll only help us here in Venezuela...

 

[lickya42000]

Now if he'll only help us here in Venezuela...

I know what you're saying.... I'm not from Venezuela, but I did come from a country like that.

Under Chavez, Venezuela's human rights have suffered. Claudio, how is it living under these circumstances??? Is it very oppressed or on the verge of becoming very oppressed??? In my old country, we would get jailed for protesting anything.

 

[Jonotrek]

It's all a P.R. move by Chavez. You honestly think he cares about people in Alaska? No.

Oh, and if you're feeling so sorry for Alaskians... just remember that there is NO state income tax and every Alaskian who has lived in the state for over a year can apply for the yearly oil tax refund. That's rgiht - you get money back from the governement there! The refund amount varies but is anywhere from $250 to $1800. This year it's about $1100.

Chavez is a dictator who only wants to retain power... and the easiest way to do this is to make friends with America's enemies and try and turn America's own people against their government. Don't believe a word he says - except he wants our money but could care less about us. Well, I don't believe much of what politicans say anyway.

And don't buy Citgo gasoline. It's a Venezuela-owned company... which is owned by the government (not the people) of Venezuela - i.e. Chavez. Go across the street and buy your gas from someplace else.

 

[jackoroe]

Your profile says you're in Canada, not Venezuela. How's that work??? How does Canada jive with "here in Venezuela?"



Yeah, well, that's true in most major American cities, too. Those who have been to Newark, NJ, or Baltimore, or Detroit, or DC, or the northern tip of Manhattan can assure you of that.

How odd that all these areas have been Democrat strongholds for time immemorial. You'd think that liberalism would have eradicated poverty by now. More evidence of a failed ideology.

 

[jkirk3000]

Funny how neither Nancy Pelosi nor Charlie Rangel, those bastions of conservative thought, had anything good to say about Chavez's speech. Pelosi actually called him a "thug" and Rangel essentially told him to shut up. In fact, the Boston Globe editorialized today that while we may have differences with our president, he does not deserve to be called the "devil". The Globe goes on to point out that Chavez sides with the "bad" guys of the world, and his own country has a poverty rate of about 50% despite it's natural resources wealth.

http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/editorials/articles/2006/09/22/devil_in_disguise/

Frankly, I don't believe we should accept discounted oil gifts from Venezuela, or any other country that preaches how evil we are. The poor in Venezuela are more numerous and worse off than the poor here, and by accepting discounted oil, we are in affect hurting the Venezuelans more than we help ourselves, as well as giving a platform to those who hate us.

 

[iman]

Frankly, I don't believe we should accept discounted oil gifts from Venezuela, or any other country that preaches how evil we are. The poor in Venezuela are more numerous and worse off than the poor here, and by accepting discounted oil, we are in affect hurting the Venezuelans more than we help ourselves, as well as giving a platform to those who hate us.

Perhaps you should go to your local gas station and look at the price of gas and you will realize that the Republicans are accepting a whole lot of discounted oil in the run up to the mid terms. Or is the OPEC increase in production just a coincidence?

As I said in a similar thread; If Bush and America had any balls, we would stop financing our enemies by reducing oil usage.

 

[jkirk3000]

I suspect you couldn't care less about the poor in Venezuela -- you certainly don't care about the poor here at home. And how did Chavez's "hatred" of Bush all of a sudden morph into hatred of "us?" Are Bush and the American people now borged into "one?" Wow.

How generous of you to take away the only option these poor people have to warm themselves. It would never -- not in a million years -- it would not occur to you that, you know, maybe we should provide for our own people. No, you'd callously deny the poor warmth simply to give the middle finger to a Bush Hater. And that's just another reason why this country is in the shitter and getting browner by the day.

It's rather presumptuous of you to judge me as not caring about the poor in Venezuela, or anywhere else for that matter. You have no clue as to what I do for charity on a volunteer basis, nor where I make my charitable donations. You just paint a broad, stereotypical picture.

President Bush is our president, whether you like it or not. We elected him. A foreign "dignatary" coming onto our turf and criticizing our president I believe is out of line and is an attack on all of us. As Rangel said, it is our place to disagree with our president, not a foreign leader on our soil.

I'm sorry your hatred of Bush has, along with such others as Danny Glover, morphed into hatred of America. At various times you have talked about Bush needing psychiatric care...perhaps you need to deal with your anger. It is perfectly acceptable to disagree about issues and policies, as you and I have. Allowing the conversation to degrade into name calling, hate baiting, emotional ranting and prejudicial judgements is beneath you.

 

[jkirk3000]

Perhaps you should go to your local gas station and look at the price of gas and you will realize that the Republicans are accepting a whole lot of discounted oil in the run up to the mid terms. Or is the OPEC increase in production just a coincidence?

As I said in a similar thread; If Bush and America had any balls, we would stop financing our enemies by reducing oil usage.

Perhaps you should take some economics courses to understand how the price of commodities is set.

The price on oil is set primarily in the futures market. Many things impact it - but it works something like this. Let's assume I am a distributor of oil. I call around to the suppliers and say I need 50 million barrels on 12/1/2006 to get a price. The first guy I calls wants $80/barrel. I shop some more, and find $70/barrel. I keep shopping until I find the lowest price, and find that the market for crude has dropped significantly. Mind you, this is not based on the price of oil today, but what the anticipated value of the oil is in 60 - 90 days. The future values of oil have dropped dramatically. When you listen to the economic pundits, they explain it as a result of
(1) Fewer hurricanes than anticipated, and a huge drop in the number of forecast hurricanes. The original price run-up was based on the prediction of a record number of hurricanes this year.
(2) Stabilization in the mid-east, particularly Iran and the lack of sanctions being placed on them.
(3) Consumption predictions for China and the developing world were overstated resulting in higher supply.

OPEC production has not increased. Further, to think Republicans actually have any control over the price of oil is insane - the entire US oil industry is dwarfed by the OPEC countries.

But I will agree with you on one aspect - we do need to wean ourselves off the dependance on foreign oil. Developing our own oil resources fully and using alternative energy sources will allow us to escape the blackmail that foreign countries attempt to use against us.

 

[jkirk3000]

Perhaps you should go to your local gas station and look at the price of gas and you will realize that the Republicans are accepting a whole lot of discounted oil in the run up to the mid terms. Or is the OPEC increase in production just a coincidence?

As I said in a similar thread; If Bush and America had any balls, we would stop financing our enemies by reducing oil usage.

Perhaps you should take some economics courses to understand how the price of commodities is set.

The price on oil is set primarily in the futures market. Many things impact it - but it works something like this. Let's assume I am a distributor of oil. I call around to the suppliers and say I need 50 million barrels on 12/1/2006 to get a price. The first guy I calls wants $80/barrel. I shop some more, and find $70/barrel. I keep shopping until I find the lowest price, and find that the market for crude has dropped significantly. Mind you, this is not based on the price of oil today, but what the anticipated value of the oil is in 60 - 90 days. The future values of oil have dropped dramatically. When you listen to the economic pundits, they explain it as a result of
(1) Fewer hurricanes than anticipated, and a huge drop in the number of forecast hurricanes. The original price run-up was based on the prediction of a record number of hurricanes this year.
(2) Stabilization in the mid-east, particularly Iran and the lack of sanctions being placed on them.
(3) Consumption predictions for China and the developing world were overstated resulting in higher supply.

OPEC production has not increased. Further, to think Republicans actually have any control over the price of oil is insane - the entire US oil industry is dwarfed by the OPEC countries.

But I will agree with you on one aspect - we do not to wean ourselves off the dependance on foreign oil. Developing our own oil resources fully and using alternative energy sources will allow us to escape the blackmail that foreign countries attempt to use against us.

 

[kinkikiki]

Muchas Gracias Mr. Chavez, when I lived in Brooklyn I woulda loved the help, and dont worry about Venezuelans, the man is plenty popular in his homeland

 

[kinkikiki]

^ I worry terribly about the Venezuelans. I worry about anyone living under such a government. If you think that oil brought AMERICA down a bad path...

Have you ever been to Venezula? The man is doing things for his country. You should visit sometime.

 

[jkirk3000]

Let's see...

You support our government's and our nation's decent into the nether-world of torture, but you don't want to be known as a torturer.

You support a rogue nation bombing innocent civilians and leveling a modern city from the air, but you don't want to be thought of as a barbarian.

You choose to label a billion people as "Islamofascists," yet you see no evil in your own faith.

You want to limit what a visiting dignitary can say at the United Nations, yet you bristle at being thought an opponent of free speech.

And now, now you'd gladly deny tens of thousands of poor Americans the gift of warmth in the winter, yet you don't want to be thought of as cruel and callous, and you raise the notion of your private "good works" as a shield against this very claim.

Guess what? I don't need to know what you give or if your give or how you give to charity because you have expressed yourself widely and assertively on this forum -- I know where you stand.

And that is why I stand by my observations: people who support torture are evil, people who support bombing civilians are terrorists, people who deny free speech are anti-democratic, people who see other religions (but not their own) as being fascistic are religious bigots, and people who would deny others the ability to stay warm are cruel and mendacious. The flaw, Sir, isn't in the observations, the flaw is in your beliefs.

My my, I didn't realize you were keeping a catalogue of all of my comments. I'm flattered!

Yes, I believe it is "decent" and necessary of our government to use coercive methods to extract information that has been proven to save lives. If you want to call it torture, be my guest. As you know from our frequent exchanges, the Geneva Conventions definition is sufficiently vague as to allow for interpetation - or at it's extreme not allow any interrogation at all. I've noticed that never once have you commented upon the torture, mutilations and beheadings committed by our "decent" adversaries. Perhaps you approve of these methods when they are used against American soldiers and citizens.

I don't recall supporting "rogue" nations bombing innocent civilians. I do recall supporting a sovereign nations right of self defense when attacked, that being Israel. You want to re-open that debate? You believe that fighting back is somehow wrong, and that Hezbollah should have been allowed to hide behind civilians with impunity while shooting their rockets at civilian targets. Sorry to burst your bubble, but any nation when attacked is going to fight back.

I used the term "islamofacist" early on in my JUB postings. After several conversations with Andreus, I realized the hurt this caused and have since not used the term and will not use the term. I don't say things intentionally to cause pain or be insolent. I've open my mind to other posters on JUB and have learned from them.

I respect the right of free speech. Are you now saying that my criticism of someone excercising poor judgement in the use of free speech should be muzzled? You think his remarks were befitting a foreign leader? Sorry, I don't, and many leaders in the Democratic party agree with me. It is my opportunity to freely speak and criticize him. By the way, should I try and do that in Venezuela, I probably would be imprisoned.

Would I gladly deny heat to those who need oil this winter? Explain to me exactly how I might be doing this. You realize there are many federal and state programs set up to give fuel oil relief to those that can't afford it. How many Americans died last year because they didn't get fuel assistance? How many were saved by discounted fuel from Venezuela? Or was this more a political ploy that a helping hand?

By implication, you have labeled me an evil terrorist, anti-free speech and a facist religious fanatic. I'm not big into calling people names, and I'm not going to start here. Suffice it to say, your statements would carry more weight if they contained less hate and you weren't so incredibly narrow minded. Open your eyes to other perspectives and opinions - you'd be surprised how much you could learn.

 

[jkirk3000]

Re: Venezuela Helps Americans Heat Their Homes: "Gracias, Sr. Chavez!"ueer ,though,ty

Uninformative article, I must say, not to mention it was written by a Bush admin flack...

Speaking of poverty, ds, could you please advise where you found this "80%" poverty rate, as both the CIA factbook and the World Bank Web sites dispute this number, severely. Further, it's a curious thing that poverty under Chavez is going DOWN while poverty in the US under Bush is going UP. Huh. Must be that "compassion" thingamabob. Could it be that anti-poverty spending is going UP in Venezuela under Chavez while anti-poverty spending and programs in the US in going DOWN under Bush? Don't take my word for it -- read what the World Bank has to say.

I have no particular interest in Chavez beyond his (highly) amusing tweaking of Bush and watching the Bush Coward Brigades go crazy, but let us at least stay true to the economic facts, shall we?

According to my sources http://www.venezuelanalysis.com/news.php?newsno=1785, the poverty rate of Venezuela when Chavez came to power was 42%. This increased to 47% in 2004, and is expected to drop to 38% this year. Wow, remarkable, a country with enormous oil wealth will have shown a net drop in poverty of 4% in 7 years. Unemployment still hovers around 11.5-12%.

The US poverty argument is another one we have gone over in the past. Currently it sits at around 12.6%, up from 2000 which was at 11.3%, but surprisingly the same as 1998 (when Bill Clinton was president) at 12.7%, which FYI was better than 1997 which had a poverty rate of 13.3% (http://www.census.gov/hhes/poverty/poverty98/pov98hi.html). Hmm...

It is said that statistics don't lie, but people who mis-use them do.

 

[Claudio63]

Your profile says you're in Canada, not Venezuela. How's that work??? How does Canada jive with "here in Venezuela?"

I do have family in Canada and that's where I activated my account. But I live (and am writing from) Maracaibo, Venezuela.

 

[iman]

Ah Hah, a devotee of the dismal science. I hope you admire Paul Krugman as much as I do, but probably not.

Prince Bandar has talked publicly about Saudi manipulation of oil prices at the behest of US Presidents: http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/04/20/bush.oil?

It is possible that production has not increased, but demand is down and supply is high and Opec has just announced at the 142nd meeting in Vienna that current production would be maintained, that of course will drive prices down. OPEC has a stated policy of trying to maintain stability in the markets which makes maintaining current production odd.

Do you really believe that Bush/Cheney, the Republican Congress which has been a gravy train for oil, and EXXON et al, don't have a very big stake in keeping prices down for the election? Do you suppose they have no influence with the Saudi's and OPEC?

 

[Claudio63]

Under Chavez, Venezuela's human rights have suffered. Claudio, how is it living under these circumstances??? Is it very oppressed or on the verge of becoming very oppressed??? In my old country, we would get jailed for protesting anything.

There's nothing like the oppresion suffered during Marcos Perez Jimenez dictatorship during the 50s or what we heard went on in Gomez' era (1920s), but I imagine that in the media dominated world it isn't as easy to oppress people.

But he's constantly out to get the press (I understand he harassed a japanese reporter just recently for asking the wrong questions). Television is under close scrutiny and under threat of shutting down any station if it gets out of line.

His biggest sign of oppression was without doubt when he fired more than 20 thousand oil workers for taking part in the oil strike.

To put in motion the referendum to revoke him signatures had to be submitted to find out if there was enough people interested in the referendum. Eventually it was put in motion, but the list of signatures is still being used to keep people out of some jobs including in PDVSA - the state's oil company - which now carries the motto "Now PDVSA is of all of us". Cute touch. The list will also make it hard for you to get other documents (passports, ID cards, etc.).

I don't feel my life's in danger, although crime in the streets is worst than ever (it's never been a party, truth be told), because the cost of living is still climbing in spite of historically record-high oil prices/income and effective taxing (the one thing he seems great at, besides speeches).

I could go on forever, but all I want is to get rid of him. If americans like Gen. Alfie want him, PLEASE TAKE HIM, NOW.

 

[Claudio63]

Frankly, I don't believe we should accept discounted oil gifts from Venezuela, or any other country that preaches how evil we are. The poor in Venezuela are more numerous and worse off than the poor here, and by accepting discounted oil, we are in affect hurting the Venezuelans more than we help ourselves, as well as giving a platform to those who hate us.

Well summed up.

There's too much indigent people on the streets for our president to be giving away stuff. He's just trying to show Bush up, something he wouldn't do if he didn't know dubya's was an easy target.

 

[Claudio63]

Gracias, Claudio63. I hope you have a chance, and a desire, to write about life in Venezuela under Chavez -- I for one would be very eager to read a gay man's perspective of what life is like with Chavez in office.

Now you'd probably make me have to defend him if I was to take a gay man's point of view. From what most of us can see, most of his staff is gay. The current joke around is him holding a meeting saying he was troubled about the rumours circulating about every other minister or governor being gay. "Is there anyone here who likes women?". As a solitary hand is lifted Chavez belts "I wasn't talking to you Maria Cristina! (Ministry of labor and obvious lesbian if my gaydar is worth a cent").

In any case, the new constitution he made rejects any discrimination against homosexuals. Then again it rejects any discrimination at all in spite of the fact that your political tendency (read against chavez) will be held against you in job interviews. But -sigh- the constitution is a step in the right direction. Plus, Caracas had it's first gay parade this year (Caracas's mayor, Juan Barreto, is one of the gayest characters in our politics - in spite of his lewd and discriminatory remarks this year about a priest who died while allegedly cruising. I guess Barreto is our own Citizen Cohn). Needless to say, Venezuela is traditionally macho, and gay discrimination is still practiced. I'm out to only very close friends and intend to stay in the closet as long as I live in this country.

I can't give you proof. Chavez may not the devil, but he's no saint. I'm certain he's using this UN thing to further his communist agenda. Hate Bush all you want, all I ask is that you keep an eye out on Chavez.

 

[Centexfarmer]

Now you'd probably make me have to defend him if I was to take a gay man's point of view. From what most of us can see, most of his staff is gay. The current joke around is him holding a meeting saying he was troubled about the rumours circulating about every other minister or governor being gay. "Is there anyone here who likes women?". As a solitary hand is lifted Chavez belts "I wasn't talking to you Maria Cristina! (Ministry of labor and obvious lesbian if my gaydar is worth a cent").

In any case, the new constitution he made rejects any discrimination against homosexuals. Then again it rejects any discrimination at all in spite of the fact that your political tendency (read against chavez) will be held against you in job interviews. But -sigh- the constitution is a step in the right direction. Plus, Caracas had it's first gay parade this year (Caracas's mayor, Juan Barreto, is one of the gayest characters in our politics - in spite of his lewd and discriminatory remarks this year about a priest who died while allegedly cruising. I guess Barreto is our own Citizen Cohn). Needless to say, Venezuela is traditionally macho, and gay discrimination is still practiced. I'm out to only very close friends and intend to stay in the closet as long as I live in this country.

I can't give you proof. Chavez may not the devil, but he's no saint. I'm certain he's using this UN thing to further his communist agenda. Hate Bush all you want, all I ask is that you keep an eye out on Chavez.

I laughed my ass off at the joke that you shared in the first paragragh!

On gay rights, some countries it's non-issue, other countries it's "the" issue, and others recognize what's what, and have other things on their plate.

If you turn on say The History Channel here in America, you would think that the only war that was being fought during WWII was in Europe.

There is some "sprinkling" of the "Pacific Theater" but not much. Maybe it's because the Japanese didin't record every effing thing that they did, and therefore don't have an "film-clips" to share between AARP commercials and auto insurance.

Who knows?

That's all kinds of information about Middle-Eastern history; Islam/Christianity, archeological digs that relate to Egyptians/Greeks/Romans/Turks/Babalonians, etc. on the National Geographic Channel, the Discovery Channel, and Spike TV.

But the only thing that most people watching U.S. Cable Television can tell you about Central and South America is they have some really good recipes for making tacos, Machu Pichu is in Peru, Costa Rica has some really great rain forests, and Columbian is rife with drug violence.

Hugo Chavez, in my opinion is nothing more than a "socialist opportunist."

If I want to know about the History of Mexico, Panama, Venezuala, Peru, Brazil, Columbian, Equador, or any other country that shares the same continental parts of the globe as North America, I have to go to the library and read some outdated books.

Mexico is easy actually. Just remove the name Beniot Juarez, and replace him with some other "revolutionary." The Mexican Government has been corrupt ever since Spain went packing back to Europe.

Venezuala? Argentina? Chile? Nicaragua? Panama? I'd take a bet that most Americans couldn't even point to a map to tell you where in South/Central America those countries are.

Well, unless you're gay and planning a trip.

I understand that Hondorus is a great place for Gay guys to adopt kids!

Beats China!

Like I said, Chavez is nothing more than a "socialist oppurtunist." If he's giving it to Bush, the peoples back in Venezuala aren't concerned so much about whether or not they can listen to "American Idol" contestants on thier radio. Right?

 

[Claudio63]

Why exactly, as an American, should we keep an eye out on Chavez? I was hoping this country would learn to stop meddling with South American political affairs. Do you suggest he has ambition that would be contrary to world order, like Ahmadinejad? Is Chavez interested in a pan-South American superpower?

Actally, ignoring him completely would really piss him off. But in any case, meddling in other countries affairs is not the same as keeping an eye out on countries that could possibly pose a threat. I understand that paranoia can set in and you'll, say, start seeing weapons of mass destruction where there aren't any. BUt if done in moderation, keeping an eye out isnt such a bad option.

By coincidence, Chavez big hero is Simon Bolivar who nearly did make a pan-south American country (He was president for a short while of "Great Columbia" which was Columbia, Venezuela and, if memory serves me, Ecuador). Not that that means anything.