why do pepole say Asian instead of oriental?

[nightmale]

In London, UK, there are more people than in North America saying "the oriental" instead of Asia/Asian to refer to East Asian countries and the pepole--China, Japan and Korea.

Asia includes India, Pakistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Armenia, Lebanon, and even Turkey. Are people from these countries Asians?

 

[Redambrose48]

Your, more inclusive, definition of Asian is the correct one. However, for some unknown reason, the "politically correct" (PC) term for Koreans, Japanese, and Chinese in the U.S.A. is now Asian, not Oriental.

 

[seattleboy]

It's because, demographically, most people from Asia in the US have been/are from East Asia (China, Japan, Korea, Vietnam, Thailand, etc.) and the term "Oriental" was considered racist and derogative. So, we say "Asian". It's unwise because, as you said, Asia is a big place. Russians are Asian. As are Persians, Indians, Tibetans, etc. It creates a lot of bruised feelings actually because when people use "Asian" for PC purposes they're really only referring to East Asia. I know for a fact quite a few Indians and Pakistanis get really pissed off by that because when they show up for "X Asian" event/club/special interest whatever the people hosting it didn't really mean them. I think if people just started using the term "East Asian" it would help a great deal, but nobody does.

 

[nightmale]

Your, more inclusive, definition of Asian is the correct one. However, for some unknown reason, the "politically correct" (PC) term for Koreans, Japanese, and Chinese in the U.S.A. is now Asian, not Oriental.

Thats ridiculous. I dont see why "oriental" is politically incorrect. Its not a bad word at all. what's wrong with it?

 

[nightmale]

It's because, demographically, most people from Asia in the US have been/are from East Asia (China, Japan, Korea, Vietnam, Thailand, etc.) and the term "Oriental" was considered racist and derogative. So, we say "Asian". It's unwise because, as you said, Asia is a big place. Russians are Asian. As are Persians, Indians, Tibetans, etc. It creates a lot of bruised feelings actually because when people use "Asian" for PC purposes they're really only referring to East Asia. I know for a fact quite a few Indians and Pakistanis get really pissed off by that because when they show up for "X Asian" event/club/special interest whatever the people hosting it didn't really mean them. I think if people just started using the term "East Asian" it would help a great deal, but nobody does.

Vietnam and Thailand are in Southeast Asia, not East Asia. Oriental is racist?? Ive read that its considered ethnocentric because its perceived by Europe, but thats not a big deal. it is an english word, after all. East Asian people also perceive europe as occidental. i dont see anything incorrect.

I don't think its right if we exclude indians, persians, arab people when we talk about Asia/Asians. They can be really pissed off if they are not included and they are in Asia too.

 

[nightmale]

Of course they are Asians, they come from Asian countries. And many Russians are Asian too.

"Oriental" to me means "eastern". Now where on the map do I find New Zealand and Tahiti? In the orient, the east. Are New Zealanders oriental to you? No. Why not? Because they're not Asians. Right?

Eastern/Oriental also has a problem: east of what? Well, Europe, of course, the natural center of the world! Now that Europe has lost its old arrogance, the terms referring to east, west or south (of Europe) sound wrong. Thai may be "oriental" to you, but not to Japanese or Indonesians, perhaps?

Just my two cents.

who cares? people in east asia like to be called oriental coz this word sounds exotic, mysterious and very cultured. hence there are billions of companies called oriental something, plus there are also publications called oriental daily, oriental male, and there are hotels called grand oriental hotel. i dont see anything incorrect with it.

let's make a change--let's all everyone from Asia Asians, including Indians, Persians, Turks, Pakistanis, Saudi Arabians, Lebanese...

 

[RetiredTeacher]

I was once rather rudely informed that an oriental is a carpet!

 

[nightmale]

I was once rather rudely informed that an oriental is a carpet!

oriental carpet probably means persian carpet.

 

[nickyboylove]

Being asian-american myself, I don't really take offense to the word oriental, however it might be offensive based on the idea that it is a word from the British invasion into the eastern lands. It is sort of a pride issue; the overwhelming power of the western culture.

But i'm no anthropologist. Don't listen to me.

I wish I was in europe.

 

[Horschallen]

So what is now the most political way to call a rug that we used to refer to as Persian, Oriental, etc.? I am shopping for those types of rugs, but am not sure what to call them. I even catch myself saying "Asian rugs" at least on several occassions.

 

[onetimething]

The word Oriental is acceptable and non-offensive when in reference to objects.

When in reference to people, some view it as offensive because of the history of the word, and some do not. I think it's best to air on the side of caution though and not use it. It's not really that hard. If a large number of people say that a certain word is offensive, I respect their wishes and don't use it. I don't think it's my place to decide what people get to call themselves.

The U.S. Census does in fact include South Asians (Indian, Pakistani, Sri Lankan, etc.) under the broad term "Asian" but Persians and those from the Middle East are statistically considered white even though many people, both in and outside of those groups, feel there should be a separate category for people from these areas as they do not feel like they are part of the white majority, especially in recent years due to the 9/11 backlash. In Canada, there is a term that the Census uses called "West Asian" for people from this part of the globe. So it really depends where you are as far as what is considered Asian. In some countries, racial classifications are based more on geography and in others, on physical features and similarities.

There is of course a difference between official classification and real world scenarios. While Indians and Pakistanis are considered Asian by the government in the U.S., in common parlance, when people refer to Asian as a physical characteristic, they are pretty much always referring to someone of East Asian (Korean, Vietnamese, Chinese, etc.) descent. In other words, if an American saw someone who was of Indian descent in the distance and was trying to point him out to someone, they would not say "that Asian guy in the red shirt" but rather "that Indian guy in the red shirt" (many people use the catch all word Indian to describe all people of South Asian descent regardless of their descent, although some 85% of South Asians in the U.S. are in fact of Indian descent). Interestingly enough, in the UK as I understand it, the situation is reversed, where Asian generally means exclusively people from South Asia, and people of East Asian descent seemed to all be lumped together as "Chinese" regardless of their ethnic background (although some people in the U.S. do the same, and in Latin American countries virtually all East Asians are referred to as "chinos").

 

[purina]

Asia includes India, Pakistan, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Armenia, Lebanon, and even Turkey. Are people from these countries Asians?

They're referred to as Middle Eastern.

 

[DMich]

Most of my east asian friends have told me that rugs and spices are oriental and people are not. They take offense to it.

 

[Inverted]

They're referred to as Middle Eastern.

And done so incorrectly. Indians and Pakistanis are not Middle Eastern... they're South Asian.


nightmale, the word "oriental" was used by the British to describe anything related to the far east including India and Iran, not just East Asia so I don't even think using that word to refer to East Asians is correct. I just use East Asian, South Asian, Southeast Asian etc.

 

[nabbytho]

Thats ridiculous. I dont see why "oriental" is politically incorrect. Its not a bad word at all. what's wrong with it?

My 11th grade teacher asked me the same question.

to which I responded:

"Because I'm not a fucking rug."

She stayed on my good side for the rest of the year.

It's like calling a black person colored. Or any person that's um..colored for that matter.

 

[Claudio63]

I could have sworn oriental had to do with "eastern" just as occidental was "western". But if it has become known primarily as a type of rug then the english language has degenerated quite a lot lately.

 

[TriBi]

I would ask people to bear in mind that this is an international forum. Fact is that terminology deemed as "politically incorrect" in one part of the world can be viewed as totally acceptable in another.

Examples:
"African American" has become de rigeur in the USA - but that really doesn't work outside of the USA (ie, can you really see a person of black West Indian origin in the UK agreeing to that label, LOL?).
It appears that people of "oriental" (Chinese/S.E.Asian) appearance can object strongly to the description of 'Oriental' in the USA - while in other parts of the world this is OK (I have seen an "Asian" poster himself explaining this point in this Forum).

BTW - I'm not attempting to pick on the USA - it's just that these are the two prime examples that come to mind (tho' it does seem that the USA is the source of some of the OTT Political correctness lobbies ).

I would always caution that people read the way in which a post is presented (ie, if no malice was indicated, is it just an issue of differing semantics?) and give the benefit of the doubt.

Please also bear in mind that many who post here do NOT have English as a first language - and many of them do remarkably well to convey their opinions here so that we ALL understand.

Thanks.

 

[nightmale]

And done so incorrectly. Indians and Pakistanis are not Middle Eastern... they're South Asian.


nightmale, the word "oriental" was used by the British to describe anything related to the far east including India and Iran, not just East Asia so I don't even think using that word to refer to East Asians is correct. I just use East Asian, South Asian, Southeast Asian etc.

Iran is not far east. It is middle east.

 

[gabriel1]

oriental carpet probably means persian carpet.

took the words right out of my mouth...

 

[Críostóir]

Thats ridiculous. I dont see why "oriental" is politically incorrect. Its not a bad word at all. what's wrong with it?

If a word has been used in an insulting and belittling way, it becomes an insulting and belittling word. In the US the word 'oriental' has become a racist term. There are even people who said "ornamental," as if to imply that Asians were pretty but not otherwise useful.

Also, Asian DOES include South Asians like Indians and Pakistanis.

You can say whatever you want. But if you use the word 'oriental' to refer to people of East Asian extraction, you will offend some of them.