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Why don't you venture into CE&P?
- Thread starter tbonez
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What fragrance is that I smell?
I post occasionally in CE&P. Many of the threads get dominated by a few of opposing views and you learn nothing. But there is more substance in CE&P and can be more interesting.
there. 
NW007
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I do go into CE & P sometimes, but unfortunately there is very little rational discussion in this forum. It is dominated by just a few members who can't get over their hatred for certain politicians.
Unfortunately, it is a little bit a mirror image of what's wrong with politics today. The extremes of each political view dominate with their views and are unwilling to come together to move things forward. Their is no attempt to find middle ground and discuss ideas in a rational way.
I will venture into this forum though, because I am extremely interested in economics and political science. I wish more people in society were.
Unfortunately, it is a little bit a mirror image of what's wrong with politics today. The extremes of each political view dominate with their views and are unwilling to come together to move things forward. Their is no attempt to find middle ground and discuss ideas in a rational way.
I will venture into this forum though, because I am extremely interested in economics and political science. I wish more people in society were.
Nonimus
Reasurringly Expensive
Plus its been taken over by the Dutch!
dte
JUB Addict
Most of the discussions have been centred around American politics. Most Americans only receive a one sided news bulletin from news services like Fox and CNN of what they think Americans want to hear. Americans in general seem not to know or even want to know what others think of their political issues and general impressions as seen from outside their shores. We have had numerous American exchange teachers and students who can't believe the difference in how news is reported here and elsewhere on the same issues as they get fed back home. Hence, so many get too hot headed as a result of their insular environment and they think the whole world revolves around them.
Politics aren't very interesting to a lot of people is all. I find the whole thing rather dull, especially the argumentative part. Every once in a while, if I see something on the news that interests me, I'll pop into the Current Events and Politics forum and see what people are saying about it, because diverse opinions are part of informing yourself. But in general I don't really find it very illuminating.
Similarly I used to be very interested in the No Flame Zone forums, but I got bored with them over a period of time... they seemed to get a little too repetitive, and I wasn't learning very much. Hot Topics is just as repetitive, of course, but the number of posters lends a greater diversity of topics and opinions.
So basically, more people aren't there because more people aren't there. Another amusing quirk in human nature.
Similarly I used to be very interested in the No Flame Zone forums, but I got bored with them over a period of time... they seemed to get a little too repetitive, and I wasn't learning very much. Hot Topics is just as repetitive, of course, but the number of posters lends a greater diversity of topics and opinions.
So basically, more people aren't there because more people aren't there. Another amusing quirk in human nature.
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i don't think i could write a post that gives enough answers.
the flaming is just out of controll.
let me say that again
the FLAMING is out of FUCKING control.
the childish behavior is beyond comparison. there is no real interest in examining the truth, only winning an arguement.
the moderation is focused on documentation. that is good, but not at the expense of making people be civil. People are allowed to run rampant so long as you cite a source considered valid by one of the moderators, and when you ask for assistance there is simply none forthcoming.
There is nothing to be learned there, because people simply arent interested in it. they view every thread as a competition and he who is the most vicious wins. If you say something that is politically incorrect by someones standards, then you are harrassed out of the forum. And believe me, everyone is politically incorrect in that forum in some way by someone elses standards.
I think people tend to believe that they are stuck in a fox news media debate, or a political candidate debate, and guess what folks, it just aint happening. There is no respect for each other. I was a member of the AP for a few years before I made my recent switch to hospital services translation, and believe me, the real guys that debate the issues DO NOT ACT THAT WAY. there are online political debate forums for the press, that mostly are used to check and verify stories and sources, and the methods and rules used to run those forums require that each and every member behave with a high level of respect and tollerance of each others ideas. Then the forum discusses the sources of a story first, NOT THE MODS, and if the forum by and large accepts the sources it flies to a second round of debate, and that is perspective.
Now... it doesnt happen by yelling each other down. Real dissemination if information means that you either dont allow opinions or you try to assure that all views are equally expressed. that means that you offer oposing views, and debate the facts, not atack the message or the message bearer.
and
when i decided over a month ago to bail on that forum for a while, I posted a thread stating my reasons. but ... instead of people actually listening to what i had to say and why i was going, I was roundly attacked bythe very same people that motivated my leaving, One of the people who did it was one of the mods over there. When i asked that the attacks be stopped i was told by the other mod that i opened the door to the discussion and nothing could be done. one virulent post was removed, but i was told that really there was no reason to, and it was done only due to repetition not content.
I went back in there yesterday and made a few posts and it became clear that nothing had changed.
I honestly dont think that that forum can be saved. It isnt really the moderators problem. it is the out of contol behavior of about five to ten people. they are simply uncontrollable. making it a no flame zone wont help. Neither will banning people. When someone is banned, the other people rail on the mods saying that they were banned for political opinions, not behaviors.
I think that the forum needs to be shut down and all the political issues need to be reintegrated into hot topics, a forum in desperate need of posts with more meat and less fluff. People in hot topics are constantly complaining that the forum is flooded with congrats and party threads.
the people involved in plotical debate will have to learn to play by the standard JUB rules or hit the road. You have to be civil in every other forum, and it will take the full attention of all the mod staff to pull those threads back in conroll.
maybe after a few months of reintegration, if nesesary, perhaps it could be restored, but i dont think it has any real hopes of success.
the flaming is just out of controll.
let me say that again
the FLAMING is out of FUCKING control.
the childish behavior is beyond comparison. there is no real interest in examining the truth, only winning an arguement.
the moderation is focused on documentation. that is good, but not at the expense of making people be civil. People are allowed to run rampant so long as you cite a source considered valid by one of the moderators, and when you ask for assistance there is simply none forthcoming.
There is nothing to be learned there, because people simply arent interested in it. they view every thread as a competition and he who is the most vicious wins. If you say something that is politically incorrect by someones standards, then you are harrassed out of the forum. And believe me, everyone is politically incorrect in that forum in some way by someone elses standards.
I think people tend to believe that they are stuck in a fox news media debate, or a political candidate debate, and guess what folks, it just aint happening. There is no respect for each other. I was a member of the AP for a few years before I made my recent switch to hospital services translation, and believe me, the real guys that debate the issues DO NOT ACT THAT WAY. there are online political debate forums for the press, that mostly are used to check and verify stories and sources, and the methods and rules used to run those forums require that each and every member behave with a high level of respect and tollerance of each others ideas. Then the forum discusses the sources of a story first, NOT THE MODS, and if the forum by and large accepts the sources it flies to a second round of debate, and that is perspective.
Now... it doesnt happen by yelling each other down. Real dissemination if information means that you either dont allow opinions or you try to assure that all views are equally expressed. that means that you offer oposing views, and debate the facts, not atack the message or the message bearer.
and
when i decided over a month ago to bail on that forum for a while, I posted a thread stating my reasons. but ... instead of people actually listening to what i had to say and why i was going, I was roundly attacked bythe very same people that motivated my leaving, One of the people who did it was one of the mods over there. When i asked that the attacks be stopped i was told by the other mod that i opened the door to the discussion and nothing could be done. one virulent post was removed, but i was told that really there was no reason to, and it was done only due to repetition not content.
I went back in there yesterday and made a few posts and it became clear that nothing had changed.
I honestly dont think that that forum can be saved. It isnt really the moderators problem. it is the out of contol behavior of about five to ten people. they are simply uncontrollable. making it a no flame zone wont help. Neither will banning people. When someone is banned, the other people rail on the mods saying that they were banned for political opinions, not behaviors.
I think that the forum needs to be shut down and all the political issues need to be reintegrated into hot topics, a forum in desperate need of posts with more meat and less fluff. People in hot topics are constantly complaining that the forum is flooded with congrats and party threads.
the people involved in plotical debate will have to learn to play by the standard JUB rules or hit the road. You have to be civil in every other forum, and it will take the full attention of all the mod staff to pull those threads back in conroll.
maybe after a few months of reintegration, if nesesary, perhaps it could be restored, but i dont think it has any real hopes of success.
Riverrick
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See, I would love to learn more about the real news and get a more global view of life and politics. Its kind of crazy that I'm hob nobbing with guys from all over the world and I'm not learning much more about what's going on out there.
But like Andreus says, its just CRAZY in those forums. I can't learn anything when people are so virulent. The titles of the threads often interest me but then I open them up and find an argument going back and forth. Not a discussion like out here.
So, I don't know what the answer is.
marcde
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Because it's on my ignore list.
muscleboy82000
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Because of you do not have the “correct” political reviews, you a demonized, burned at the stake and fed to the lions. I love to discuss and debate politics and current events but in a civilize manner.
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I actually found JUB because I was searching for a gay political board. I don't go into it very often any more. It had been taken over primarily (there are exceptions) by gay Republicans that are not interested in facts. Some people just gobble up the Fox News spin, which is their right to do so, but I think that it is a little nutty, especially considering that they are gay.
I have also been spending less and less time with Federal politics. I just feel like talking about it does not do any good and it is just upsetting to see what these politicians are up to. So I get more involved in local politics, which I have found I'm able to really make a difference in the quality of peoples lives and helping to protect the environment.
As a green party member, I also think that the green party works better in the US as a grass roots local policies organization than on a federal level.
I have also been spending less and less time with Federal politics. I just feel like talking about it does not do any good and it is just upsetting to see what these politicians are up to. So I get more involved in local politics, which I have found I'm able to really make a difference in the quality of peoples lives and helping to protect the environment.
As a green party member, I also think that the green party works better in the US as a grass roots local policies organization than on a federal level.
Because that place is over run by a bunch of crazy people. There is no room there for actual debate. It's a free-for-all dominated by a few people with the disposition of drunk and angry Klingons.
I've been burned in there for holding my own opinions. I've even been admonished for 'playing the race card' when I spoke out against the GOP's view of border security and immigration. It was knee-jerk reaction in response to my position and it was the reason why I walked away and never looked back. I have enough stress in my own life without adding to it by reading and posting in there.
I've been burned in there for holding my own opinions. I've even been admonished for 'playing the race card' when I spoke out against the GOP's view of border security and immigration. It was knee-jerk reaction in response to my position and it was the reason why I walked away and never looked back. I have enough stress in my own life without adding to it by reading and posting in there.
The purpose of debate is to bring out facts and give logic to the bases of your opinion, but it also can serve to change ones view point. To have this done respect and logical argument has to be in place, but in the CE&P forum, it is emotional levels that are pushed and if there is no agreement with the view point, it quickly degenerates to name calling and flaming. That never gets anywhere. It is not a contest, but a debate, basically no winner except perhaps your mind and attitude.
Being able to debate in a proper manner allows for a multitude of view points but can lead to a concensus of what the root problem is with a given topic and can change the viewpoints of many. I have changed views many times in my life but it was due to proper discussion and getting to the root of a given issue, all emotional, retorical, dogmatic opinion set aside, being able to actually think beyond a set of opinions.
With the current manner of how things go in the CE&P forum, it is not at all condusive to anyone wanting to get into a discussion about anything unless you are a pig headed opinionated type person who can deny anything outside of your own established dogma. So unless that changes, why bother.
Just MHO.
Being able to debate in a proper manner allows for a multitude of view points but can lead to a concensus of what the root problem is with a given topic and can change the viewpoints of many. I have changed views many times in my life but it was due to proper discussion and getting to the root of a given issue, all emotional, retorical, dogmatic opinion set aside, being able to actually think beyond a set of opinions.
With the current manner of how things go in the CE&P forum, it is not at all condusive to anyone wanting to get into a discussion about anything unless you are a pig headed opinionated type person who can deny anything outside of your own established dogma. So unless that changes, why bother.
Just MHO.
The only practical solution I can think of is to nuke that forum from orbit.
I keed! I keed!
Rali_hates_Mondays
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I would do but unfortunately most of it revolve round American politics and so I feel as a British member that I'm out of my depth and I can't really have an informed opinion over many of the topics asked in it. I've just been in some of the threads and some arguments are interesting but there are some people who lack real discipline in terms of debating. They are carried away by their argument and so hysterical over defending it that they even use personal insults to "win the argument."
I'm surprised at how many swallow Fox news as gospel truth though. I have heard that it doesn't have a lot of credibility.
I'm surprised at how many swallow Fox news as gospel truth though. I have heard that it doesn't have a lot of credibility.
I visit the board regularly, I just don't post very often. This is mostly because I don't feel I have something intelligent to post or someone has already said it better than I could ever do.
The Brits on here who feel there are to many USA-topics in CE&P: there is now an international board. You can post your thoughts there.
@Nonimus: I hadn't noticed that the Dutch have taken over the board. I know holland posts there quite often, but that's the only one I can remember off the top of my head.
The Brits on here who feel there are to many USA-topics in CE&P: there is now an international board. You can post your thoughts there.
@Nonimus: I hadn't noticed that the Dutch have taken over the board. I know holland posts there quite often, but that's the only one I can remember off the top of my head.