"A Deceiver and a Liar"

[Eagle653]

Well, well we all witnessed quite a coming out story this weekend with the sad saga of Rev. Ted Haggard in Colorado. First there was an out-of-nowhere public accusation; then a rapid "stepping aside" and smooth denial; then more details of accusations; more denials; a failed polygraph by the accuser; then an admission of "some guilt;" then a firing with a stunning letter from the pulpit, admitting to being "a deceiver and a liar" and, more amazingly, an admission of "repulsive and dark past" and a lifetime of "warring" with himself about his sexuality. Oh please.

How sad on all fronts. Sad for his wife, his congregation, and especially for Ted Haggard. Those amongst us who are, or have been, married felt a jabbing pain this weekend--being outed publicly against your will and not choosing the time nor method.

What struck me, though, was how almost everyone connected with him--including himself--is still clueless and still missing the point.

Some "leaders" claimed that he sucummed to temptation. Sorry, no. This isn't a case of a horny man boinking his secretary. This was a closeted man expressing who he really was in the only way he knew how. Reckless, yes. A victim of his own denial of who is was, yes. A horny man "sucumming to temptation," no. I don't buy it.

This part of Haggard's statement really irritated me when I read it: "There is part of my life that is so repulsive and dark that I've been warring against it all of my adult life." That "part" of course is his homosexuality. How much must you loathe yourself to do what he did? The cover ups, the marriage, fathering children, and then rising to the top of your profession and exerting as much influence you can to fight against the thing you hate most about yourself? How much hate can one man hold against himself--and how much damage can he do to others in the process?

Of course, he's still not getting it, is he? Instead of viewing himself realistically, and someone of value who happens to be gay, he chooses to view himself as inherently flawed--"repulsive and dark." Of course, this plays right into the hands of his peers who feel likewise about him. Oh forgive me God, for I am weak and flawed... So much has this played into his peers' view of the world, that they are today gladly proclaiming his "admission of sin" and even his recognition of his sinful and evil behavior as "the Gospels are working."

What we're witnessing is a human tragedy. I hope that he gets counseling--not by one of the conversion types or someone equally as uninformed as he, but real counseling that leads him to acceptance and does so so that he can live in peace and restore any level of self-esteem. If he doesn't, he will continually live his life as a broken, self-loathing man who does not feel worthy of God's grace. There really is no way out of this.

Interestingly, there is a more salient message in his famous passage of "There is part of my life that is so repulsive and dark that I've been warring against it all of my adult life." Assuming he's a rational man, this demonstrates, in quite a poignant way, how much this is NOT a choice. No rational person chooses to be repulsive and dark. No rational person "wars" with a side of themselves that they can switch off like a lamp. No--you "war" with things you cannot change. You find "repulsive" things that you cannot control. He would have given anything to change and control this aspect of himself, and he could not. None of us can. I hope that's the lesson he learns from all this--as well as those around him.

This weekend I felt like I was witnessing a trainwreck...I didn't want to watch it, but I couldn't look away either. I'm glad my coming out experience did not mimic his--I can't think of anything more mortifying. On the other hand, he was the architect of his own undoing.

I am curious though--do you think people will understand how "not a choice" this all is, given this very public downfall? Or, will it send shutters through other guys in that situation and have them re-double efforts to cover their tracks? Will any good come of this? Or, in 3 days will it be Ted who?

 

[Orlandude]

The public consiousness is short-lived unless it's like the war being shoved in our faces every day. I think it won't be long before it's "Ted who?". The wingers want this story off the front page. More than anything, it goes to prove that their theory of "repressing your so-called dark side" doesn't work...not even for them.

The upside of this whole thing is that it is making a lot of rightwingers realize that you can't mix politics with the pulpit. It doesn't work and it can backfire big time...like with Haggard. In the final analysis, all that he preached was hypocrisy and that makes the position of the right indefensible. Perhaps many of them will wake up on election day, finally realizing how they have been used by a disingenuous White House. Perhaps they will take down their political signs and keep their churches a private thing...as they should be...not a spectacle and pawn for the politicians.

 

[Riverrick]

That is really a great post, Averageguy. You said so many things that I have been feeling this weekend about this story.

And yes, he is using Christian lingo to reframe his behavior. Now he is a sinner just like everyone else and therefore can be forgiven and go on with his life. Perhaps with no further examination of the issue.

I DO think some people will understand that he was driven by desires, not choices. But I really don't expect anyone to feel any compassion for this gay man or any other gay men as a result of this.

 

[sixthson]

He's been raised to believe that being gay is the most vile, despicable thing there is. He has also been taught you cannot be Christian and gay and especially if you are gay, you definitely will go to hell, unless you repent and renounce who you are.
I think he is both a deceiver and a liar, starting with lying to himself.
I think it is good that he has been exposed. I think the revelation (even if it had been private) is an awful one for his family. I heard that he has a gay son, but I am unsure how true this is.
The worst thing, as far as I am concerned, is all the damage it has undoubtedly done to young people dealing with their sexuality. Imagine having feelings of attraction to your own sex and going to church where you are condemned to hell for it. I wonder how many lives have been irreparably damaged or ended by this kind of thing.
I grew up under this kind of religion and I know how painful it is to feel that God hates you. Afterall, if the pastor says God hates you, He must, right? Fortunately, I am strong and didn't overly turn this kind of teaching in on myself. Still, it caused me great pain and added one more dimension to the self acceptance process. My heart goes out to those who are more fragile and less able to think for themselves. I suspect Haggard is one of those who grew up believing this kind of hate and turned it in on himself. The problem is, he went on to propagate the lie of hate.

 

[Jeimuzu]

That man infuriated me. The only defense of most anti-gays is that they think it's a conscious choice, whereas it's not - it just hits you naturally. However, he knew exactly what it was like to be gay, and still fought us.

 

[JayHew]

Good discussion and to me it goes to show how absolutely destructive orgainized religion is. Religion has little to do with spirituality but has a lot to do with dogma and preying on fears of people. Each person has questioned why, how, good and evil and because of not having a firm answer, allow others to foss their ideas upon them. Religion controls by fear and ignorance not enlightenment or spirit.

This will not change anything and will reenforce closet living for many. It will not open discussion but increase condemnation because it is easier to cling to our superstitions then to move forth in a new and better way of thinking.

It is sad.

 

[Roland00]

I am going to repeat some of what I said in the politics forum

The people that get hurt the most are his wife and kids.He is a creep and deserves no sympathy.He don't know the meaning of being a true christian.Gay men should be out of the closet these days....and not hiding behind their wife and kids.And he lies....all in the name of Jesus....*vomit*

I am not defending Haggard's actions, what he has done with his advocacy of the intervention of hateful religon and goverment is disqusting.

But as your comment about Gay Men should be out of the closet these days. Haggard is now 50, thus he was 17 when the APA remove homosexuality as a mental disease. Supposedly Haggard became a born again before that. Thus any reason wasn't going to reach him for he was already brainwashed.

My point is this even though most of us realize there is nothing wrong with being gay there is still people go around brainwashing people. We need to be out and show people there is nothing wrong with being gay, so the people who are brainwashed see reality. Additionally we must confront the people who are brainwashing and be able to debate them rationality in public. Do not yell at the brainwashers, be nice, just let their own actions show themselves as fools.

----------------------------------------

To be gay in one of these churches and to act on is to commit the unforgivable. You can be a murderer and they will go around saying I forgive you, but if you are gay they will avoid you or place you in one of the Exodus International/NAARTH reparative therapy clinics. In fact this is what Haggard probally is doing, for he says he is getting religious counseling on his life, his marriage, and his deep secret. He is great friends with James Dobson (Focus on the Family guy, whose political wing is Family Resarch Council run by Tony Perkins.) Dobson is probally one of the biggest advocates of reparative therapy in the US, and besides funding such insitutions has published several books other people have wrote advocating such things.

I pity Haggard, for his life has been a lie and most likely instead of confronting it he is only going to go deeper in the pit of shame. I also pity his wife and 5 kids.

 

[Treborf]

Now he is a sinner just like everyone else and therefore can be forgiven and go on with his life. Perhaps with no further examination of the issue..

I think what makes this situation so unfortunate for Haggard is that he won't be able to move on. Most people after coming out, voluntarily or otherwise, go ahead and start building their lives as gay/bisexual men. Even Mark Foley will at least be able to finally start living his life openly, and will probably end up more well-adjusted as a result of his outing (once all the scandal dies down).

Haggard, on the other hand, will most likely spend the next few years trying to repent, while becoming even more repressed than he was before. He was pushed out of the closet only to jump right back in. A damn shame it is.

 

[jakey501]

Wow. All of these have been really good posts. Mine will be a little less profound....I do not believe in outing someone. There is a time and a place for each person to do that on their own; and if they never come out of the closet then that's their life and their decision.
Now...having said that.... When someone who is gay and is closeted and actively paticipates in things against homosexuals--i.e preachers preaching against homosexuality; politicians legislating against gay marriage, etc.--then regardless of the motive behind their actions (fear, self-hate, power, cover-up) I think they should all be outed. In fact if I was extremely wealthy, I think I would hire private detectives and follow these homophobic religious leaders and politicians around and try to find dirt.

And in response to one of the previous posts that asked if this would cause religious people to realize that it's not a choice or would it just be forgotten about in time......I think it all will happen. Mostly people will just forget about it. And extremely religious people will just think it's "Satan's" doing or that it's his cross to bear and to resist temptation. Yet there are others, like my parents--religious and having a long road to accepting their gay child--who with every new gay person coming out of the closet realize that being gay is more common than they thought. And that gay people come in all shapes and sizes, not just the flamboyant swishy hairdresser that they think of (which my gay brother happens to be, lol). And especially when hypocrits like Haggard are outed, it causes them to start to question their own churches position on gays.
We are never going to be accepted by everybody, but with each new person out of the closet it becomes more and more common and with that more acceptable and more relevant to peoples' lives.

 

[jockboy01]

Excellent post Averageguy... you summed up everything I thought when reading about this story. And yes, I have pity for him, and disgust for his anti-gay preaching. But ultimately, pity for his self-loathing.

nterestingly, there is a more salient message in his famous passage of "There is part of my life that is so repulsive and dark that I've been warring against it all of my adult life." Assuming he's a rational man, this demonstrates, in quite a poignant way, how much this is NOT a choice.

I'd actually never thought of it this way but you're right.

Religion controls by fear and ignorance not enlightenment or spirit.

I disagree here. True of some churches but definitely not all. I've been to both and now I only attend those that focus on being good people without all of the societal crap associate. I know a lot gays despise religion and religious institutions, but in the right context, they are very helpful.

do you think people will understand how "not a choice" this all is, given this very public downfall? Or, will it send shutters through other guys in that situation and have them re-double efforts to cover their tracks? Will any good come of this? Or, in 3 days will it be Ted who?

I wondered myself what the response would be to all of this. And as much as I'd like to be optimistic. I don't think much good will come of this. I agree that Ted is not on a path to a better life after all of this and still maintains that homosexuality is unhealthy and needs to be changed.

This is sad for him, and sad b/c society sees this and it only reinforces that homosexuality is a bad thing. I don't think society will see it as you so eloquently described as a self hate of something about him that can not be changed but rather as an internal flaw and a fall into sin. They'll miss how sad and pathetic our society is to where a guy can only express who he really is in a secret and underhanded way. I think str8s will see it as further demonstration of how gays go about having sex whereever they can get it.

My gut instinct when I first read this story was disgust that a gay man could be so adimittly homophobic in such a public way. Only after I thought about it did I realize how sad it was for him and I felt bad for him. I think most str8s will have the gut reaction of being disgusted by his sexual acts and few will delve beyond that reaction.

And then in a few days it will be Ted who? I wish I was more optimistic but I just don't see it. Maybe I'll try and bring it up with some str8 friends who don't know about me and see what they say just to see if I'm right... haha.

 

[M4P]

I am curious though--do you think people will understand how "not a choice" this all is, given this very public downfall? Or, will it send shutters through other guys in that situation and have them re-double efforts to cover their tracks? Will any good come of this? Or, in 3 days will it be Ted who?

Excellent post! I'm convinced those with closed minds will not change and he will be yesterday's news in short order.

 

[smaq44]

Awesome post, AverageGuy.

Before I share my response, a little background: I came out to myself in June 2005; out to my wife a couple months later. We like the new level of honesty in our relationship. We both embrace a faithful, monogamous relationship. My coming out has helped both of us to grow. We’re more bonded than ever in our 32 year marriage.

But coming out is a process, and it has been a little rocky at times.

For instance, I’m having difficulty accepting my membership in a small, much maligned, marginalized minority group. As a white male, this is a new experience for me. I resent being maligned. I resent being marginalized. (I can almost see Nelson Mandela shaking his head and wondering what it takes for some people to smell the coffee.)

I love being gay. If it was a choice, I would ask to be gay. The only thing I would change is my self-honesty. I would like to have been honest with myself right away, and (given a homophobic, heterosexist culture) honest with others by the time I was 21.

But the Rev. Ted Haggard is a pathetic idiot.

I can conjure up no sympathy for people who are homophobic on the outside and homo on the inside. Even before I figured myself out, I was pro-gay rights. That’s a choice. I was a Catholic religious for six years. I am intimately familiar how homophobic some religions are (especially mine). I am intimately familiar how some Catholics seem to take great pleasure in using their religion as tool to inflict pain and spread hate. Thankfully, there are also Catholics like Father Mychal Judge (the openly gay priest killed during the strike on the World Trade Center).

It’s true that internalized homophobia can play havoc with a guy’s mind, but Ted still had choices. Lots of small choices that added up to major deception.

Ted acted out. He knew. He chose to close his eyes a million and one times.

The people in the New Life Church are idiots too.

If they had been willing to embrace a good minister who happened to be gay, they could be focusing on becoming better humans right now (instead of sending the youngsters out of the room and running around with their hair on fire).

As my wife and I read Ted’s remark that “There’s a part of my life that is so repulsive and dark that I have been warring against it for all of my adult life” we both expressed anger and frustration.

News flash, Ted! IT’S NOT A CHOICE!

I don’t suppose I’ll live to see the day when the majority of Americans understand and embrace the plurality of human sexuality.

And it makes me sad.

And pissed.

Mac

 

[jaysizzles]

Excellent post averageguy! I've enjoyed reading the other above posts as well. Good and well thought out pov's.

While I do sympathize/empathize with men who have issues coming out...I have no sympathy for this man. He truly did make his bed and now... etc. I imagine him crying publicly (in a Tammy Faye mascara running down the face sort of way) asking his flock for forgiveness for his being a "fallen and weak sinner". He'll go for some counseling to "de-gay" himself (rehab...the "in" way to get over any public humiliation ) ...he'll get out and cry some more...write a book...go on the talk show circuit...spew some rhetoric...ugh! I hope I'm wrong but I honestly don't see him ever accepting homosexuality...something he so vehemently and publicly opposes. The (un-christian-like) hate and denial is so ingrained in him and his evangelical community that they will pray even harder for forgiveness, redemption, salvation... They see us as evil wicked sinners who will burn in hell...but if he repents...he'll be saved (oh...and we could be saved too if only...ack!).

As far as general public perception is concerned...I don't think the vast majority of people will remember Haggerd's name in the near future...but they'll not soon forget yet another religious man or politician associated with a homosexual sex scandal. These scandals, imo, reinforce some of the misguided general perception (of the un-enlightened...of course) that homosexuality is deviant (so wrong that these good god-fearing men are lured into and corrupted forcing them to lead secret and shameful lives ). All (well okay...not all) of the efforts of the GLBT community to be regarded as respectable get undermined by a few highly publicized "fallen".

Okay...I realize I'm being overly cynical and sarcastic...but I just get so fed up with the ignorant and the self righteous misguided haters who don't see that their demise is due to their repression and denials of natural tendencies and not in being homosexual in and of itself. I resent his/their begrudged association with me and my peers.

 

[luminum]

I hope it shows people just how bad things can turn out when you hide it and how impossible it is to hide it forever. How hiding is not an option.

 

[mexamor]

Wow, some really great posts and a great topic. I really appreciate smaq's comments, seeing as I am married and out to wife also. I have to admit that for all the swagger that I put on being happy, I sometimes wonder if I am going to hell. I have a hard time with religion.

Having said that I don't feel Rev. Ted is in the same boat. He acted out and remained secret about it. An honest man comes out to his wife first and then they decide what to do. That is how I see it.