AIDS and Moral Relativism.

[numerobis]

Since I joined this group (my very first contact with other gay people and gay issues) I have been noticing that there is a prevail in a great number of gay men who have a double morality, I have read people post preaching and giving advices about monogamous relationships and precautions to prevent diseases in the Hot Topic, Health and Coming Out forums; but soon after these same people are giving details and opinions on hook ups, one night stand, that they would like to do these or that. I even have read of people with boyfriends that have adventures with others or that they have invited a third person into the relation to “spice up” their sex live (I have never heard of such things from heterosexual couples).

But when it hit me was just now when I opened JUB and there was this AIDS support message in celebration of the 25th anniversary of the spread of HIV, and I was thinking ahhh! that is so nice to support this cause that affect so may, but then I looked in perspective and this message was surrounded with reviews of gay porn of every kind, sex for cash, orgies, cum swapping, barely legal boys etc. etc, etc…

I know that the porn industry take precautions with their “models”, but what about the idea and the image that they sell to us, why are we so aware of the dangers of careless sex, but surrender to their “sins”. Why are these boards filled with post about cruising and casual adventures? Are our cravings more powerful that our common sense?

I am one that sometimes have been feeling tempted to that lustful life (I haven’t have any btw), but when time passes what would be left (If I survived), me alone with a lot of regrets of what should have been if…

Why these boards are not filled in a day like this with AIDS and gay issues, are we so scared that we support these issues but also try not to talk about these things?

I am just a young man too scare and confuse of the outside world, trying to form an opinion of what is the reality of gays in today’s world.




PS: I apologize if this topic is offensive to some people, I am not trying to preach morality, I am just focusing in some issues that seems to be silent in here.

 

[numerobis]

^Opps! My fault, it should have been commemorating the 25th anniversary, not celebrating.

Thanks.



You know, I am 26 years old, 1 year older than the universal aware of HIV. I have grown Knowing the facts of AIDS, and all my life I though that when I would become sexually active, there would have been a cure already for this disease (because there were all these researchers at that time). I though that one day I could live my sexuality without fear; how wrong was I, the solution of this problem seems to be far away in time to me.

 

[tucaz7]

My feelings on yours.........me having been a sexually active gay adult through the entire AIDS/HIV crisis. In my opinion what you consider a double morality is more of an open minded person, someone who can see both sides of the coin, so to speak. Safer sex practices should happen in any sexual encounter, weather it be with a regular partner, one night stand or a little action with a 3rd partner. (3 ways are very popular in the straight world, you can easily find it on this very internet).
Over the past 25 years I have had sex with hundreds(and hundreds) of men, and have managed to stay negative through it all. This was no accident.
I chose many years ago that it was more important to enjoy life and not fear it. I also new that there were risks, but I was not going to retreat to the closet, it felt far too good to be out.
Regrets?? Sure, I've got some, but I dont spend too much time looking back. You can bet I wont make the same mistakes again, I'm a fast learner.
We all need to make choices through life, you make yours, I will make mine, if you ask, I will tell you, but never force them on anyone.

Whatever you decide..............enjoy your decisions and your life--you got a long one ahead of you.

 

[trebor]

excellent posts numerobis and others. There is a "disconnect" between the disease of AIDS and the (our) behaviors that promote its spread. But we must be informed and attentive in each our personal lives to this continued disease, for which there is still no cure.
I am older and have lived through this gay plague, not just in the gay community anymore. But when it was rampant among our brothers, and when so many of them died, those of us who survived will never forget. You younger guys must be informed, and live healthy; this disease is still out there, waiting to get anyone - not just gay men - who miss the message.
Aids Day. Remember.

 

[numerobis]

My feelings on yours.........me having been a sexually active gay adult through the entire AIDS/HIV crisis. In my opinion what you consider a double morality is more of an open minded person, someone who can see both sides of the coin, so to speak. Safer sex practices should happen in any sexual encounter, weather it be with a regular partner, one night stand or a little action with a 3rd partner. (3 ways are very popular in the straight world, you can easily find it on this very internet).
Over the past 25 years I have had sex with hundreds(and hundreds) of men, and have managed to stay negative through it all. This was no accident.
I chose many years ago that it was more important to enjoy life and not fear it. I also new that there were risks, but I was not going to retreat to the closet, it felt far too good to be out.
Regrets?? Sure, I've got some, but I dont spend too much time looking back. You can bet I wont make the same mistakes again, I'm a fast learner.
We all need to make choices through life, you make yours, I will make mine, if you ask, I will tell you, but never force them on anyone.

Whatever you decide..............enjoy your decisions and your life--you got a long one ahead of you.

Good for you to have enjoyed a plentiful sexual life, it seems that you have been a precautious and informed man, that have known how to manage your sexual life (with a little touch of luck may I add), unfortunately there have been millions (and millions) of people that can’t share their story because they are not with us anymore. (More than 25 Millions people since 1981 according to the statistics).

And of course that I am enjoining and living my life, I am just trying to manage it to be as precautious as yours. And I am judging no one; everyone is entitled to live as they wish; but it seems that we live as AIDS isn’t a big deal. It is kind of a Taboo as we can’t discus about it. How can we support AIDS campaigns and at the same time promote sexual activities that could spread it. How can I interpret this message?




PS: Ohh! And of course, I think that places like this are the best ones to inform and promote safe sex among gays, because it reaches to certain types of groups among sexually active gay men. But it is not just mentioning it is explaining how.

 

[tucaz7]

I have lost more than my fair share of friends and loves to this horrific disease.
We should NOT promote unprotected sex. And we should talk about this epidmic as often as is possible. Every day, we hear or see something regarding HIV/AIDS. There are organizations dedicated to teaching what we know about it, and help is available to all who seek it.
Those that dont practice safer sex know the ramifications of there actions(at least in most of the world). Unfortunately we may never have a cure(a vaccine may be in the next 10-15 years). Lots more will still die from it.

Auto accidents kill too, but we dont stop driving, most of the time we do it as safely as we know how. We take lots of risks everyday, but safely to reduce the risk. That is what we need to stress to the community, safe. If abstinence is your choice, great, the risk is zero, but it is not a viable choice for most.

 

[numerobis]

^Good points, risks are in everyday life, the thing is to know how to prevent them.

I wasn’t implying that abstinence is the solution; that is an absurd idea; we are after all sexual entities. But we should be aware were to step and how to enjoy sex with others without been at risk; beautiful and safe gay sex in our case, to know when you should relax and when to protect yourself.

great posts btw.

 

[Andreus]

HIV does not spontaneously come into being when two or more people have sex.

thanks for this statement

it's been bugging me that people assume that sexuality and sensuality automatically assumes irresponsibility.

it doesnt.

people dont have to pretend that they are nuns just to appear as though they may be a safe partner to someone. noone is a safe partner anymore and if you don't believe that is true, you are in alot of trouble, IMO.

watching porn and jacking off tends to be a rather safe form of sex, actually, and i think that the people in the sex industry are aware of the risks. Nudity and erotica are not bad things... unsafe sex is hazzardous to your health and if you haven't got the message that you need to use a condom and not trade body fluids yet, you really wont ever. Pictures of naked men won't matter a good god damn, one way or the other.

I even read that there are various conservative organizations in america that are fighting the use of the HPV vaccine because they say it will promote promiscuous behaviors in women.

I really just want to yell as loud as I can... gimme a break !!

 

[wit_afrika]

The future looks rather bleak for people living in my part of the world...

LESS than half of South Africa’s 15 year olds will live long enough to collect a pension, according to an actuarial report on the Aids epidemic released 30 Nov 06.

Fifteen-year-olds now have a 56 percent chance of dying before turning 60. In 1996, youngsters of the same age only had a 29 percent chance.

The Demographic Impact of HIV/Aids in South Africa: National and Provincial Indicators for 2006 is a report released every two years by the Actuarial Society of South Africa in conjunction with the Centre for Actuarial Research and the Medical Research Council.

“The youth of today are facing a bleak future, and much still needs to be done to protect and support this vulnerable group,” said Leigh Johnson, one of the authors of the report. The report estimated that South Africa’s population would have reached 48 million people by the middle of 2006, of which 5,4 million people were infected with HIV – or 11 percent of the population.

Full report:
http://www.dispatch.co.za/2006/12/01/Easterncape/bcaan.html

 

[numerobis]

I really have to say that you must lead a sheltered life. In over 50% of all heterosexual relationships one or both partners will have sex with another person during the time of that relationship. Three ways sexual affairs occur not infrequently among married couples.

What I found strange was the fact about couples in a boyfriend –boyfriend relation inviting a third person to have sex the three of them together. Not that it bothers me but it is weird, what is the point of compromising if people will be coming and going thru their relation.

Seems to me to be the perfect place to put an acknowledgement of HIV - it needs to be placed where the action is.

I already explain that I also found forums like this the best places to promote awareness, but that it is not just a title to show, it is actually explaining how to be safe.

Let say this was a car racing fantasy forum, and there was a message for the responsibilities and safety of driving, and on top of it were this review about how cool it is to drink and drive in the city, and in the bottom another one about speed racing in urban and inhabited areas. We know that it is an staged industry, and we could discern between reality and this fiction world. But It was the instant perception of that image, too bad I didn’t took a picture of it, as it was really funny, there was this AIDS support message and on top of it this review of a group sex party.

But in any way I am condemning pornography, just that it should have also some responsibilities in educating people.

So why are you here? Your presence proves your own concerns. Indeed to "come out" as queer, even just the act of visiting these boards, shows that our cravings are very powerful in the face of significant societal pressures.

Well If you want to know, I am here for forums like this, were I could get information and interact with others like me( it was how I found JUB in the first place), and I don’t have any issues or problems been gay, it is just not my time (because of social and family issues) to be living it openly right now. (working on that though)

Sexual activities do not spread AIDS or even HIV. HIV does not spontaneously come into being when two or more people have sex.

If you and your partner(s) have their health checked regularly and engage in safer sexual practices then I want you to have lots of sex. I do, and I can assure you it is wonderful, pleasureable and loving.

You are talking about partner(s) there, and that implies a bond, a trust and a considerations (most of the times). But gang bang parties, and saunas hook ups have other levels of responsibilities with yourself and with others, and you wouldn’t imagine the lack of sex education that prevails. It is just like this thread a few days ago about police closing a sauna in NYC, it was said that it wasn’t primarily because it was a gay sauna, but because there weren’t taking any precautions in safe sex. So the problem is not the activity but the way you are doing it. If you want to risk it that is fine, but there are others involved too.

Maybe it is the fact that I have worked with people with AIDS, maybe it is because I live In the 2nd most infected region in the world, but for me AIDS is not something to be taking lightly.

I appreciate your points of views, because this is just what I wanted to read the opinion of different people in different places.

 

[cocktales]

I applaud this thread!


I too have had a very, very active sex life; but I too practiced "safer-sex" and that helped me through the HIV/AIDS epidemic!

Now that I am in a Mono-Partnered-relationship, I do NOT even think about straying to have that illicit affair, just to get my rocks off.......NO way!

To "us", we have something very rare, a relationship where love survives ALL things...

Sure, we have arguments/fights, for we are human; NOT dead! lol

I do think that we have reached this plateau of love for ONLY one another because we sowed our "Wild-Oats" and got that outta our system; thus we were ready for the next step; a Monogamous relationship!

We also have this little "thingy" that makes us confront one another.....We always "Kiss-and-make-up" before we go to bed and by the way; we always sleep together, regardless of how big the argument/fight was.....in the end, we still love each other deeply/desperately/forever!!!

Today my Partner and I sat down and went down memory lane having a disussion about ALL the wonderful people/friends we've lost to AIDS!

What a terrible tragedy, for such young people to just suddenly get ill and die!

We really had a difficult time remembering our best friend we lost! He was truly one of the best people....talented, good-looking, funny, and ALL those traits that make a person just the center of attention....

.........But, he died at the age of 32 of AIDS.....

I hate this fucking disease!

 

[Croynan]

I think you have posted a most interesting and valuable thread.

And i give you a lot of credit for doing so and raising the various issues that you have.

While adidas pointed out some "inconsistencies" I think the exchanges between the two of you have been excellent.

I should think you would feel very proud of this thread/posting and of the very interesting responses you have received.

Well Done.



eM.