Bikes vs Cars

[EddMarkStarr]

In the United States, changes to cities that make bike riders happy have the opposite effect on car drivers. Downtown shops and restaurants depend on the customer traffic that the automobile brings. Turning car lanes into bike lanes has the effect of hurting retail commerce in city centers. This means that the types of businesses that depend on the automobile have to give way to the types of businesses preferred by bike riders.

The problem for city governments is any changes to the street grid will effect everyone - what would you do?

 

[rareboy]

Maybe try to look at European cities with large bike riding populations and learn some fucking lessons from them?

 

[BiBtm64]

TL;DR: Cyclists, drivers and business owners all deserve a fair go. I'd like to see city planners consider off-road parking where cycle lanes take the place of on-street parking.

As a commuting cyclist and regular car driver and I can see both sides and it's a complex issue. Roads date back thousands of years in ancient civilisations like Mesopotamia, Rome, and China, as a concept of public space for mobility of the whole population. Then came the Industrial Revolution, cities grew bigger and busier, horse-drawn vehicles and bicycles became a norm, then the automobile was invented and soon they became more numerous, and faster. Social norms shifted, with car ownership becoming a symbol of freedom and status.

Businesses found a new market. People could set up a business along roads where car drivers could park. It was a natural evolution of supply and demand.

It's inevitable in our current age that the perception of roads as spaces "owned" by car drivers is being challenged by movements advocating for sustainable urban development and multimodal transportation. It's good to see many city planners are rethinking road use around more pedestrian use, public transport, and cycling options. When a small amount of space is taken away from motorists to create more mobility and healthier options for others, it's not a bad thing. I don't ride to work to save the world. I do it because it's healthy for me, and it's generally quicker. Most peak hour drivers in my home city seem pretty well okay with cyclists sharing the roads, I'm one less car. Don't get me wrong - I regularly drive to do my shopping too, I'm not anti cars. Automobiles, whatever you call them.

I agree it's not fair to hurt small businesses that have sprung up along major roads where there used to be parking for customers. It would be great if city planners thought more broadly about solutions that benefit everyone. Installing ample off-street parking would be a great way to start.

 

[EddMarkStarr]

I'm asking about all this because Rob's video highlights the uneasy choices city planners have to face.
Shops along a road are as important to city life as home ownership is to the community at large.

 

[LeicsDom]

Maybe try to look at European cities with large bike riding populations and learn some fucking lessons from them?

I used to ride a bike all the time until ill health forced me to rely on a car.
As a bike rider I welcomed the cycle lanes that sprung up, especially during Covid.
In the UK bikes, taxis and buses all share the same special lanes.
My beef was always those bloody Deliveroo-type riders who sped over junctions and along footpaths. They give bike riders a bad name.
Now I am forced to use a car I welcome the cycle lanes because they make it easier for us by segregating cyclists onto specific lanes

 

[LeicsDom]

I'm asking about all this because Rob's video highlights the uneasy choices city planners have to face.
Shops along a road are as important to city life as home ownership is to the community at large.

I don't think that here in the UK we need to have as much car parking by shops in the way that rural America does.
We are now used to out-of-town shopping malls which have acres of parking or city centre multi-storey car parks. It si only small villages that need on-street parking outside shops

 

[smokeshadow]

It's an unfortunate affect that most European cities grew up in an era where the vast majority of the population walked or rode horses/mules/wagons to and from one location to another; so residences and businesses were located accordingly. Within easy distance from each other and often adjacent to each other. Here in the U. S., most cities, especially those around and West of the Mississippi River grew up around the automobile. Residences and businesses were seperated to keep "unsightly" portions of the business (trash, manufacturing pieces and parts and their resulting infrastructure) away from where people lived. No thought was given to walking, as the automobile provided quicker and safer transportation (to say nothing of not contributing to the masses of excrament that accumulated from horses ).

 

[EddMarkStarr]

Maybe try to look at European cities with large bike riding populations and learn some fucking lessons from them?

I would like to have an inland city, away from the west coast earthquake zone, with room to spread out, create a car-free district following a European scale layout.

 

[peeonme]

We have bike lanes in the suburbs of Detroit, I seldom see anyone use them even on nice days. I see a lot of e-bikes on the sidewalks.

 

[Kahaih]

It's a 2,000 foot drop in elevation from my house to the nearest village. Going down might be fun, but the climb back is out of the question. LOL And, it's not like anyone can pack a week's worth of groceries on a bicycle, anyway.

Anyway, even in flat cities in warm, steady, dry climates, bicycle and automobile traffic doesn't mix well, and there is always a lot of sharing/crossing each other's space - the two can't possibly be exclusive --slowing down auto traffic and creating a very dangerous situation for bicycle traffic.

 

[USEDCAR]

I hate bike riders; they act like they own the road and want to cut in front of traffic, and the same with motorcycle riders.

 

[EddMarkStarr]

It's a 2,000 foot drop in elevation from my house to the nearest village. Going down might be fun, but the climb back is out of the question. LOL And, it's not like anyone can pack a week's worth of groceries on a bicycle, anyway.

Anyway, even in flat cities in warm, steady, dry climates, bicycle and automobile traffic doesn't mix well, and there is always a lot of sharing/crossing each other's space - the two can't possibly be exclusive --slowing down auto traffic and creating a very dangerous situation for bicycle traffic.

Seattle is a mix of bike lanes and streets completely closed to automobiles. The net effect doesn't seem to make anyone happy. I've seen bikes with rack mounted carriers and pulling cargo trailers. But using the trailers for shopping seems to take all the joy of bike riding away, from my personal experience.

 

[Kahaih]

/\ You wouldn't dare leave that anywhere unattended, with or without shopping in it. One store per trip?

What do they do with it when they live in a flat?

~~~
What is the average age of a city cyclist, anyway?

 

[me203]

And, it's not like anyone can pack a week's worth of groceries on a bicycle, anyway.

Given how fucking expensive groceries are, it's getting a point where all many people can hope to afford is a couple of small bags holding rice and beans each week. Which would be easily carried!

My cranky crack aside... A more practical method of handling shopping would be multiple trips a week. Which might be a hassle, of course. I do multiple trips (even though I don't use a bike), which is attractive in summer, when I might be getting a fair amount of fruit that is pretty perishable and thus ideally used up fast (e.g., berries).

 

[EddMarkStarr]

Biking and walking made me realize how limiting commerce must have been in the 19th century. The automobile changed the face of the USA - none too pretty I might add.