Biphobia in the Gay community.Anyone expierence it?

[Romantico]

I was just curious if any other bisexuals on the board has experienced this.I for a while have been the subject of discrimination by some of my gay friends over my being bisexual.Seems like when i hang out with my gay friends alone like going to a movie,shopping,or just hanging out all is fine. However, when I do something as a group with my gay friends I am usually being attacked or challenged.What really pushed me over the edge was this past Labor Day weekend.

I introduced two of my friends 3 years ago and they have been serious ever since. They planned a big dinner at a nice restaraunt back in May to announce that they were going to have a civil union. They planned it weeks in advance. I found out about it about two days before and I didn't mention it. Afterwards, they called me to break the good news and said it was last minute and they tried to call me but couldn't reach me. I let it go. They planned the ceremony at their house over Labor Day weekend. They had been talking about it all summer. I was not invited and have been pretty pissed off and hurt by it. In the past they have had parties or get togethers and I have taken a guy friend I use to know. They were okay with that and liked him. Well, he went off to school so that was that. Then I met this girl who I was nuts about.This couple threw a Christmas party and her and I showed up.They were uncomfortable because everyone at the party was gay and were going up to these guys asking what my story was. A few months ago they saw me with a guy and now I'm holding hands with this girl. This couple got embarassed and even told me one time not to kiss or hold hands with her in their house because it made things way too complicated and they didn't wish to spend the night explaining to thier friends that I was "confused" or not brave enough to come out totally yet.Whenever I hang out with this guy I work with who's gay or any other gay guys and this couple and I go out all is cool. They prefer me with other guys. But when I am with a girl it just freaks them out.I was told by a friend who is close to them that they were practicing "tough love" with me by not inviting me to their civil union. That they have had enough of my childish bisexual claims and weren't playing my games anymore.

Some of my gay friends think I am not brave enough to come out of the closet. One of my friends always asks me in front of my other gay friends, "Hey, are you still bisexual?!" he does this usually when he has an audience and always gets a few laughs at my exspense.

Like I mentioned above, its only about 4 of my gay friends who are giving me a hard time.But still most my friends went to the civil union ceremony and didn't think it was odd that the one person who introduced the happy couple was not invited. Not one of my friends called. Not one stood up for me. Not one argued or challenged the happy couple over them excluding me.This couple has said to me in the past that my bisexuality is a choice & I am bound to loose some friends over it.

So, imagine how it sounds for me to be looked down on because of my sexual orientation and to be accused of 'choosing' this lifestyle. Sounds like Jerry Falwell or Pat Robertson. I would think of all people these so called friends would be more understanding. So, I have written all four of them off. Haven't called or emailed them since Labor Day. One these friends called when they knew I was not home and left a message informing me they gave me as a reference on a resume and to exspect a phone call. Another one knows I have theatre connections and wants me to get some good tickets and back stage passes to a broadway show so he can take his new boyfriend next month to New York and impress him. So, not only do they look down at me but see no problem in using me as well. There's a saying that, of all people, Tammy Faye Baker said in her film 'The Eys of Tammy Faye" that rings true in my opinion. She said, 'We are all just people made from the same dirt and God didn't make any junk". I know it sounds corny, but I think there is something to those words.

I know I need to make new friends and I also know this is not typical of all gay people.However, I am aware that there is that prejudice out there amongst us Bisexual men. I don't want to make new friends and have the same thing happen. It really hurt that I had to let these so called friends go.They have been there for me in the past but they all feel I need to grow up and decide to like girls or guys. They just don't get it. Do I tell people I am bi and tell them my past horror stories or do i just stay in the closet? My sexuality should not come up but after a while people will just assume I am gay. Maybe I should leave it at that. What do you all think? How and wherer do i go to meet bisexuals? I think they are the only ones who can either relate or understand where I come from.

Thanks for letting me vent. There's alot more but I didn't want to bore anyone (if I haven't already)Thanks for listening!

 

[gothamking]

I think those guys sound like assholes. It never fails that the oppressed eventually become the oppressors. I've come across a lot of what you've said, on both sides of the fence. You kinda expect it from straights, but it feels worse coming from gay people because they should understand a little better what its like to be marginalized. Gays seem to stick up for each other but bi's are treated like some weird cousins or something.

I have to say though, there seems to be a bigger bi prsence on this board lately, so maybe those who dont accept us are getting more of a chance to get to know us. Lets hope.

Hang in there. Youre not alone .

 

[JayHew]

Rough set of circumstances for sure, but I agree with your decision to let these so called friends go. Yeah, it is difficult at first, but over time you can establish better relationships with people more in tune with your life. That these people should understand and didn't is not a surprise, even thieves have an established pecking order and cop attitudes.

As you go on with meeting new friends, let them know you are bi and let them know up front how upsetting it is to you to have such "attitudes" and treatment from gay men in the past and how you won't tolerate it in the future. That should cut the number of gay men with such attitudes from your "Christmas Card list" fairly quickly and those who hang with you are at least willing to let you be you.

I have a number of bi guys in my life and they are all good people and damn few have any attitude. Could be too that we are all older, but it is good to get together and enjoy our company. Good luck in this, and I know over time it will work out for you. Don't get discouraged, that which does not kill me, makes me stronger.

 

[teh_nathan]

Yes, I have and I'm sick of it.

I think anyone who makes broad generalisations about groups of people (or even about one person) are really ignorant and have no idea what they're talking about. If they don't understand, they should just educate themselves before opening their mouths.

That's really a short answer but it says it all.

 

[Romantico]

Wow, thanks for all the support! I think age is a contributing factor. My older gay friends are laid back and more or less are the ones who convinced me to dump these 'so called friends'. I knew they were right but still didn't want to loose these people. I guess in the back of my mind I was hoping atleast one would come around. What drives me nuts is the fact they think its a choice with me. One of my friends told me to my face that they would never ever date a bisexual guy. I said to him he could have finally met Mr.Right and he could be a bisexual. According to this ex-friend of mine he said he'd never be able to trust him. If he was dating a bi guy and a female co-worker wanted to go to the movies with him and she was young, hot, and had a nice body he would freak out. So, could it be homosexuals who discriminate against bisexuals are just insecure with themselves?

I didn't see alot of it at the time, but looking back I have really taken alot of shit from these people. I would never ask any of my gay friends to 'tone it down' or to 'not act too gay' around my straight friends. Another thing that pisses me off is I do alot of charitable things for gay causes. No one is as outspoken about gay rights as I am. I volunteer with a local gay and lesbian film festival and I will be the first to speak out against any hint of homophobia. I have told everyone in my life that I have no room in my life for anyone who judges someone on who they have sex with.

Its an elite group of young gay men who against me and bisexuals. This is the same group who goes to gay bars and makes fun of anyone over thirty five who walks in. They are bitchy when it comes to movies you like that they feel aren't highbrow for their taste.The same group who feels if you don't wear 'the right' clothes you are just out of it and too old. Its these people who give gays a bad name. However, they will ignore all that and bust my chops because I don't fit with their idea on who I should be. (sigh)

Thnaks again for allowing me to vent. Send my bill to Romantico courtesy of JustUsBoys.com!!

 

[teh_nathan]

Hmm. I guess with me, what I would do, if a young female (ok, or male) co-worker asked me to go to a movie (whether I was in a relationship or not) would be to go (I'd feel flattered if anyone asked), with the understanding that I'm just going for some companionship and not looking for anything else (I guess that's not something you'd say up front but the question would be asked eventually).

The "young, hot, etc" part wouldn't mean anything to me except it would intimidate me a bit. The "hotter" someone is, the more intimidating it is to talk to them (at least for me).

 

[Dejajb]

I have! It sucks but what can we do. They still call me "straight" just because I won't choose between a guy and a girl. It really hurts sometimes, but in the long run...at least I know i wont be pushed into something i dont want for myself, thus, being happy is all that matters.

 

[The_Reaper]

Hmmm, allow me to shed some light on this issue.

I am a fully fledged GAY man/teen, whatever you want to classify me as.

As such, I feel I have some experience that others might not.

I've noticed a disturbing trend among youth today:

Question: So, are you gay or bi?

Answer: Bi...I only sleep with dudes, but I'm not "femme" or anything like that so I'm not gay.

It seems that most of today's youth associate Gay = Out Right Queen.

Which is one reason why your gay friends might think you're still "in the closet".


Another problem is the simple fact that we gays are jealous species. We're always worried our man might leave us for the younger, hotter, more in shape stud who just moved into the neighbourhood.

Our fears are doubled when the dating pool for a bi guy is doubled.

But, I also get alot of animosity from the "Bi Community" towards the idea of dating a guy.

ALL the bi guys I've met have no problem sleeping with guys, but will only settle down with women.

It's that fact that helps add to the animosity...Sometimes, reguardless of what the general sterotype is, gay guys don't just want to fuck.

We do eventually want a committment, some sooner than others, and we don't see that possibility with Bi Guys.

Which of course leads to the arguement, "You're gay! You sleep with men! Now get into a relationship with me!" Attitude....

It's sort of a keep away game...Sure, we get our hands on it every once in awhile...But we never get to keep it.

I'm sure I'm being biased here, but I've yet to meet the Bi Guy who is willing to settle down with another guy.

Well, now thatI've tackled that issue...I've got to move onto the Middle East Peace assignment I've been given...

 

[probeteam1]

As a guy who is so far attracted only to other guys (sometimes the most vocal advicates of the "gay" identity label make me feel almost ashamed to claim it, lest I seem that I agree with them), I just want to say that I agree with you entirely. I've run into this one once or twice - mostly online, interestingly enough. I've met only a very few gay folks (male or female) willing to voice their biphobia to a person's face, at least not in front of me. And after the argument coming from the first mention, most of them don't voice such prejudices around me a second time. While I realize that you can catch more flies with honey, bitterness is what I have and so I go with it.

I guess my experiences are different from those of most gay men. At this point, about half of my relationship (short-lived as they might have been) have been with guys who could be considered either "bisexual" or "straight but open-minded." And I regret them less than I do some of my relationships with "gay" men. Sure, none of those relationships lasted very long, but neither did the ones with gay men - and the bi guys were at least honest with me.

Beyond that, I have a few observations about what you went through

In the past they have had parties or get togethers and I have taken a guy friend I use to know. They were okay with that and liked him. Well, he went off to school so that was that. Then I met this girl who I was nuts about.This couple threw a Christmas party and her and I showed up.They were uncomfortable because everyone at the party was gay and were going up to these guys asking what my story was. A few months ago they saw me with a guy and now I'm holding hands with this girl.

This can be easily explained to them in four words: "Your business, not theirs."

This couple got embarassed and even told me one time not to kiss or hold hands with her in their house because it made things way too complicated and they didn't wish to spend the night explaining to thier friends that I was "confused" or not brave enough to come out totally yet.

Embarrassed? That is one of the most insulting things I've ever heard. I mean, do you act ashamed when they get all gooey over one another? If they're your friends, aren't they supposed to stick up for you, at least a little?
On behalf of gay men everywhere, I apologize. I know I can't speak for all gay men, but I'm still sorry it's happening. Ask them how they'd feel if you were to have them over at a party with a bunch of straight folks, and them ask them not to be affectionate because you're tired of confirming to your straight friends that they're perverts. With proper delivery, they'll get the point.

Whenever I hang out with this guy I work with who's gay or any other gay guys and this couple and I go out all is cool. They prefer me with other guys. But when I am with a girl it just freaks them out.I was told by a friend who is close to them that they were practicing "tough love" with me by not inviting me to their civil union. That they have had enough of my childish bisexual claims and weren't playing my games anymore.

From where I stand (sit), it doesn't sound like you're the one playing games. Really, "forgetting" to invite you is just plain passive-aggressive. They could at least eshibit enough balls to say "your bisexuality freaks us out, and we thoughtyou'd spoil our union ceremony." Really, how are they practicing any sort of love ("tough" or otherwise) if they punish you and then lie about the reason?. That's just plain petty.

Any attempt at justification is probably a load of manure. Either they refuse to accept you on the same terms that you accept them (sexuality and all) or they're ashamed to claim you. Either way, they're being miserable and childish.

And you've tolerated it longer than I would have. Friends like that, I don't think you need. It's their loss.

Some of my gay friends think I am not brave enough to come out of the closet. One of my friends always asks me in front of my other gay friends, "Hey, are you still bisexual?!" he does this usually when he has an audience and always gets a few laughs at my exspense.

Well, good-natured ribbing is part of friendship. I've been getting crap about being gay from my straight frriends since I came out, and I don't expect it to stop. But I push their buttons, too - often for the benefit of a laugh. It's hard to tell the one from the other, but you could always try going with it and see where it leads, "No, this week I'm a Unitarian."

Like I mentioned above, its only about 4 of my gay friends who are giving me a hard time.But still most my friends went to the civil union ceremony and didn't think it was odd that the one person who introduced the happy couple was not invited. Not one of my friends called. Not one stood up for me. Not one argued or challenged the happy couple over them excluding me.

Well, you don't know that nobody challenged them. If I had been there - and been your friend, the argument I would have had with them (if I even knew about the guest list beforehand) would have taken place behind closed doors. I detest drama, and so I try not to make a production out of such things. As to not telling you, that could have led to a confrontation htat would have spoiled the whole wedding. Of course, personally at that point I wouldn't have minded spoiling the commitment ceremony (I probably would have enjoyed it), but not everyone thinks that way.

But it looks like you have a bigger problem here. While only about four of them give you crap about it, it doesn't sound liek a single one of them actually supports you. What kind of friensdhip is that?

This couple has said to me in the past that my bisexuality is a choice & I am bound to loose some friends over it.

Well, certainly you're bound to lose some friends over it. Look at the state your friendship is already in. But if they're going to continue to behave in that way, do you really still want them as friends? Sometimes it really is preferable to be alone. Maybe they'll call you when they grow up.

So, I have written all four of them off. Haven't called or emailed them since Labor Day. One these friends called when they knew I was not home and left a message informing me they gave me as a reference on a resume and to exspect a phone call. Another one knows I have theatre connections and wants me to get some good tickets and back stage passes to a broadway show so he can take his new boyfriend next month to New York and impress him. So, not only do they look down at me but see no problem in using me as well.

Maybe refsing to return their calls isnt enough. Call them all back and tell them to lose your phone number.

I know I need to make new friends and I also know this is not typical of all gay people.However, I am aware that there is that prejudice out there amongst us Bisexual men. I don't want to make new friends and have the same thing happen. It really hurt that I had to let these so called friends go.They have been there for me in the past but they all feel I need to grow up and decide to like girls or guys. They just don't get it. Do I tell people I am bi and tell them my past horror stories or do i just stay in the closet? My sexuality should not come up but after a while people will just assume I am gay. Maybe I should leave it at that. What do you all think? How and wherer do i go to meet bisexuals? I think they are the only ones who can either relate or understand where I come from.

Thanks for letting me vent. There's alot more but I didn't want to bore anyone (if I haven't already)Thanks for listening!

I don't know that there are any places to meet bisexuals specifically.

Don't keep your sexuality a secret. Yes, it will prevent the harassment, but it will also lead to friendship with people who hold the same attitudes. After that, what if yo fall for a girl again? Then you're right back in the same situation. I think it wouldbe better to state your bisexuality early in the friendship, and ask your new gay acquaintances if they have any problem with that - if they do, ditch 'em before you get too attached.

 

[Mr.BiGuy]

I've seen the biphobia from some of my gay friends. I mean they're real cool about it but they sometimes tell me that I hsould just stick to one gender. Serisouly I honestly don't see gender when I'm in love with someone. I can always list the good things about women and the good things about men. Some gay people just can't see how a bi person can be sexually attractive with both men and women.

In my case I've read about some gay guys who are afraid of bisexuals because there going into "their" territory or that they think that bi men (or women) are whores that just like sex. But I don't know how they can justify that, when they don't even know what being bi truly means.

 

[snapcat]

Gee, I'm shocked that a certain someone hasn't posted in this thread already.

 

[bma1983]

One of my friends told me to my face that they would never ever date a bisexual guy. I said to him he could have finally met Mr.Right and he could be a bisexual. According to this ex-friend of mine he said he'd never be able to trust him. If he was dating a bi guy and a female co-worker wanted to go to the movies with him and she was young, hot, and had a nice body he would freak out. So, could it be homosexuals who discriminate against bisexuals are just insecure with themselves?

Don't confuse a gay guys choice to not date bi men with biphobia.

 

[bma1983]

So, if you find men sexually attractive but wont date a bisexual man is it bi'ism rather than biphobia?

Many bi guys feel and think that just because they sleep with men they're the same as gay men, when they aren't. For me, at least, I just want to be with a man who shares my sexuality. I just don't want to be with a man who finds women sexually attractive. I find it unattractive. For the same reason, I'm not gonna want a str8 guy.

 

[probeteam1]

Don't confuse a gay guys choice to not date bi men with biphobia.

That's all well, and good, but let's look at the quote to which you responded with more focus (emphasis mine).

One of my friends told me to my face that they would never ever date a bisexual guy. I said to him he could have finally met Mr.Right and he could be a bisexual. According to this ex-friend of mine he said he'd never be able to trust him. If he was dating a bi guy and a female co-worker wanted to go to the movies with him and she was young, hot, and had a nice body he would freak out. So, could it be homosexuals who discriminate against bisexuals are just insecure with themselves?

That is biphobia. Or at least something very much like it.

Let's define some terms here.

If I refuse to date women because they don't do anything for me, that's discrimination. But it doesn't make me sexist; it just means that I am not indiscriminate in my partners, and the sex of my partner is one factor. But if the reason I refuse to date women is because I consider them to be stupid, whiny, weak, or untrustworthy, then I am sexist. If I still find women sexually attractive, but believe that a woman will never understand me the way a man will, then I might be sexist. If I think that Iwill nevre understand a woman as well as I understand other men, I might be right, but I have to acknowledge that it's at least in part my problem.

I think the same definitions might apply to biphobia. Refusing to date a bisexual man because "I could never trust" him would be a good indicator of biphobia. I won't comment in this post on refusing to date bi men for other reasons, other than to say that I honestly don't understand or agree with most of them.

 

[wowsers30]

I identify as bisexual. I'm only out to a few friends who are also gay or bi. I've noticed that biphobia exists in both the straight and gay communities. In the straight commnity, the fear has risen from 'stereotype' that bi guys will get AIDS and spread it. In the gay community, the fear comes from the knowledge that bi's usually agree with the majority that straight relationships are generally more stable. I don't want to get into the blame game, but these opinions have been strengthened by gay community.

From my observations, gay men loose their virginity earlier and have more partners than straight men. Also, gay culture today is very shallow (for the most part). Not alot seems to matter other than partying and calling people 'bitches'. I met guys that aren't the 'typical' gay but the 'typical' gay is what the world sees. And its clear to me that straight and gays fall for those sterotypes when it comes to gay men.

I hope that was clear if not, message me and we can talk some more on AIM.

 

[Auburn]

I identify as bisexual. I'm only out to a few friends who are also gay or bi. I've noticed that biphobia exists in both the straight and gay communities. In the straight commnity, the fear has risen from 'stereotype' that bi guys will get AIDS and spread it. In the gay community, the fear comes from the knowledge that bi's usually agree with the majority that straight relationships are generally more stable. I don't want to get into the blame game, but these opinions have been strengthened by gay community.

From my observations, gay men loose their virginity earlier and have more partners than straight men. Also, gay culture today is very shallow (for the most part). Not alot seems to matter other than partying and calling people 'bitches'. I met guys that aren't the 'typical' gay but the 'typical' gay is what the world sees. And its clear to me that straight and gays fall for those sterotypes when it comes to gay men.

I hope that was clear if not, message me and we can talk some more on AIM.

I have no problem with bi men, first of all, but most bi-guys DO think that straight relationships are more stable. This is why you RARELY ever see a bi guy choose to enter into a homosexual relationship over a heterosexual one. Most bi guys marry women and don't even think twice about settling down with a man because they assume life is easier that way. But, let me say, that as a gay man, it's funny how gay men shun bisexuals and say they won't date them, then wonder why bi's would rather be in a straight relationship than a gay one.

BTW, i have more going on in my life than partying (and i am only 23) and i don't go around calling people "bitches". There is more to gay culture than you think....plus, if we were only concerned with the two things you mentioned, then why do you think so many gays are fighting for equal rights? Its obvious that there is alot more to gay culture. We have the same basic needs as straight people.

I do agree with you when you say 'its clear to me that straights and gays fall for the stereotypes when it comes to gay men', but how is the different from people falling for stereotypes about blacks, whites, females, etc.? Even people that belong to those groups stereotype themselves.

How do you know that gays lose their virginity earlier and have more partners than straight men? I am constantly hearing stories from women who have been slept around on, so as far as i am concerned, gay men are not bigger whores than straight men, as you seem to imply.

Sounds to me you may be a bit homophobic

 

[probeteam1]

I identify as bisexual. I'm only out to a few friends who are also gay or bi. I've noticed that biphobia exists in both the straight and gay communities. In the straight commnity, the fear has risen from 'stereotype' that bi guys will get AIDS and spread it. In the gay community, the fear comes from the knowledge that bi's usually agree with the majority that straight relationships are generally more stable. I don't want to get into the blame game, but these opinions have been strengthened by gay community.

From my observations, gay men loose their virginity earlier and have more partners than straight men. Also, gay culture today is very shallow (for the most part). Not alot seems to matter other than partying and calling people 'bitches'. I met guys that aren't the 'typical' gay but the 'typical' gay is what the world sees. And its clear to me that straight and gays fall for those sterotypes when it comes to gay men.

I hope that was clear if not, message me and we can talk some more on AIM.

I'm not sure this one works.

In my experience, biphobia in the straight community falls into two broad categories: widely applied homophobia (treating gay and bisexual people as interchangeable targets) or the more personal forms of biphobia we've discussed here ("I'm afraid s/he will cheat" or "eventually you have to choose one or the other" or whatever). While fear of HIV/AIDS sometimes comes up, it is rarely the first thing on folks' minds, and there are enough married gay men (whom we must assume slept with their spouses occasionally, given that they have offspring) who later come out that such spread of disease cannot be blamed on bisexuals alone.

As for the "knowledge" that "straight" relationships are more stable, I'm not sure how to answer that. It seems to me that the devaluing of the "gay" relationship is a self-fulfilling prediction: by expecting the relationship to fail, you help to set it up for failure. It just assumes an awful lot, IMNSHO. I don't have much to say in response to the "shallowness" of gay culture. I don't deal with it enough, and I don't consider mainstream "straight" culture to be any deeper.

I'm not sure what the comments about virgninity and sexual partner count have to do with this discussion. It seems a slanted way to assert that gay foks are promiscuous, when the truth may be much simpler. Here are two thoughts: if gay relationships are less stable, then relationships will be more volatile; they will end more often, leading to a greater turnover rate among romantic partners (and thus sexual partners). Second, adults divide kids by sex in many situations to (among other things) prevent them from getting up to any naughtiness; this is not much of an impediment for gay kids, allowing for earlier loss of virginity. I have no support for either thought, as I just made them up. My point is that stating "facts" like those only causes us to infer the cause. It doesn't really mean anything.


I have no idea where I'm going with this. I'll try again later.

 

[Like Butter]

Who agrees / disagrees.

I agree, I'm attracted to men but in my case I wouldn't have sex with one. Now some will automatically label me as being Gay just for the fact that I have an attraction Or some will label me Straight because I've never had sex with a man.
In any case I associate myself with the straight crowd because thats where I blend in.

Question is what determines your sexual orientation?

A.Sexual attraction

B.Sexual Intercourse

 

[TierraSimms]

I'll say it like this boys, you have/desire to be involved in homoerotic activities? It's OK, I am a bisexual female and I would fully expect you as a bisexual male. I have had my fun with fellow females via threesome, but I know that I am bisexual but want to settle down with a man. However at the very least not publically but yourself privately come to terms that you are bisexual.