devastated

[Eagle653]

thephoenix, I wish everyone in the world had a friend like you. Talk about going above and beyond...you're one in a million. Whether or not he appreciates you, I don't know anyone here who doesn't admire the efforts you're expending on his behalf.

To me, however, it looks like he can't bring himself to be with girls anymore and he's found one he can tolerate and doesn't expect much from him and is torn up that he's losing his cover.

I think this hits the nail on the head and, in one sentence, probably sums most of the issues with him. It's really too bad that he's refusing professional help, right now. His own fear and loathing of his presumed homosexuality is so unnecessary, really.

You're out to him. Could he be unconsciously pushing you away because, on some level, he's torn about attractions to you and revolted by the thought? Does he trust that you love him "as a brother" and not in a romantic way (if that's true)?

If those are non-issues, then chalk up his rantings and pushing you away as a just chatter in the storm. It could be he's embarrassed by the whole episode and wants to lick his wounds in peace, or he's angry and afraid of what he might say (kind of late for that, but whatever), or he's just spouting emotion. You seem to be willing to hang back and give him space, and that's probably good. Loosen the leash a bit, but keep him in site.

Good luck. Let us know what happens. You really are one in a million.

 

[3nipples]

His being closeted would explain the hostility he is showing towards you. Keep in mind that he called you and allowed you the time to come and stop him from doing anything stupid. Give him some space. He knows you'll be there when he needs you.

 

[spreadeagle]

Well, I'm sorry to be blunt, but it's as I anticipated, and Im not convinced that you have the detachment necessary to be the best help to your friend in this situation. If you're gay and he's homophobic then being associated with you may not be what he needs to move forwards just now.

Are his extraordinary good looks a factor in his being your 'best friend'? Would you still be so concerned if he was ugly as sin? What do you mean by being 'partners in crime'? Does the time and energy your friendship with him consumes prevent you having a lover of your own? ...these are thoughts that puzzle me.

 

[backpacker]

Thanks for the update and I think you are doing the right thing. As others have noted, I think some of the hostility toward you is really him being in denial about his sexuality. He may need a little space, but I'm sure he knows what a great friend you are. I'm glad you have tried to get him professional help, but if he is not willing there isn't much he can do. Hang in there, you're a good friend.

 

[NickCole]

phoenix -- in case you're tempted to avoide this, don't.

It gets right to the heart of the matter.

Read this and, to yourself if you don't want to do it publicly, honestly answer spreadeagle's questions. It will help you be less confused.

Well, I'm sorry to be blunt, but it's as I anticipated, and Im not convinced that you have the detachment necessary to be the best help to your friend in this situation. If you're gay and he's homophobic then being associated with you may not be what he needs to move forwards just now.

Are his extraordinary good looks a factor in his being your 'best friend'? Would you still be so concerned if he was ugly as sin? What do you mean by being 'partners in crime'? Does the time and energy your friendship with him consumes prevent you having a lover of your own? ...these are thoughts that puzzle me.

 

[thephoenix]

wow, spreadeagle, harsh and cynical! His looks have no bearing whatsoever on the situation. 10+ years of friendship maybe, but not looks. We've known each other since kids. I've only recently come to terms with myself, it was his "relationship" with that guy that made me face my attractions because I saw someone else fumbling around just like I felt. Partners in crime is an expression; it means we get/have gotten into trouble together. We have nonsexual fun together.

As far as my personal relationships, it has only affected one. And that one wasn't the one for me anyway. I date when I want to and have had some good albeit brief relationships. My friend and I are close; I'll admit closer than most guys. I don't harbor any romantic feelings for me. I mean this is the guy who picks his nose and wipes it on me or shows it to me or both. He calls me into the bathroom to look at the color or shape of his feces. Nothing romantic there.

He used to be real open with his affections to me (i.e. telling me he loved me, hugs, putting his arm around me, etc) his girlfriend/wife put a stop to that because she thought it was weird. To be honest, I never put any thought in to whether it was odd or not. Our friendship worked for us. Now he only gets affectionate when he's drunk around me and because of some loud "I love yous" in the past he won't drink around me any more. His wife/girlfriend has always been extremely jealous of me and has always felt like my friend would do more for me than her or would side with me rather than her.

Which brings me to the latest development: I was in Wal-Mart's parking lot and ran into my friend's wife's "boyfriend" who got kind of belligerent towards me. He was mad that his wife found out (I didn't call her) and was yelling and blaming me for her finding out. I mean he threatened me; you know the standard: I'm gonna kick your ass, they'll need 100 body bags when I'm through with you, etc etc. I was minding my own business putting my own bags into my own car and he came over trying to start a commotion. I really pissed him off by not being scared and pointing out that he was the one sleeping around so if his wife kicked him out then it was all his fault. This woman came over and asked if there was a problem and he told her to excuse the two of us that we needed to be alone. She looked at me and I told her to call the police. He told her to call an ambulance too because I was going to be needing it. I was dude, you totally don't want to get into it with me. I told him I didn't cheat, I didn't do shit, and that he needed to step away from me before he ended up seriously hurt. By that time a crowd a gathered and two or three people had called the cops, so he took off and got in his vehicle and left. And I had to waste 30 mins talking to cops about it and being told how that situation was not my business and I was THANK YOU! I know that. They weren't even interested in the fact that the guy was drunk and driving. I went down to the station later to file charges only to be told he could only be cited for "disturbing my peace." The cops here are completely useless. I did file the charges though. I talked to my friend about it and he told me the guy called him and told him that he had rattled his (my friend) little boyfriend. I'm not out and it is not obvious that I'm gay. I can only ascertain that my friend's wife had something to do with the guy calling me that. Anyway, my friend is just a distant (which I understand), but I'll be damned if I'm going down for/being called out on his repressed crap. So his distance is welcomed at this point! I'm disgusted with the whole fucking lot of 'em.

 

[spreadeagle]

You're disgusted with the whole fucking lot of them - I couldn't agree with you more. You come across as a man who is thoughtful, compassionate, loyal and together. But you're transfixed in an environment that's violent, dishonest, aggressive and irrational and filled with desperate, out-of-control people? Is this a good fit for you?

We can start in our own back-yards addressing problems that present to us with dignity, consistency and integrity. But there's always another problem more pressing than the one just resolved. Sometimes it's possible to step back and look at the big picture. What are the basic issues that cause the people you describe to live such miserable, violent, cheating, self-deluding lives? Poverty, family violence, homophobia perhaps?

Rather than exhausting yourself patching up the victims are there other ways you could use your energy, abilities and resources to address the root causes?

I admire your restraint.

 

[StlKj]

Phoenix,

A terrible situation you've had to go through, and you did the best you could in the circumstances. You kept him alive--that means some day he may calm down and realize how unfair his anger at you really is. Even if he does not, however, he is still alive because of you.

Now, this is just a piece of advice for you in case he ever tries something like this again with you around, and to everyone else who might read this and have to deal with something similar.

If you are ever with someone who has taken pills or hurt himself/herself in a bid to commit suicide, it does not matter how much they don't want to go to a hospital or have the hospital called, it simply has to be done. If you have to lie to the person to make them think you're not taking them there, then lie. Your friend was not out of the danger just because you all were watching him. We so don't want to make it worse by making the person angry, but in a case like that, the hospital/police/paramedics are necessary.

Bless you, Phoenix, for doing what you did and what you could. Even if this hurts you personally in the way you're treated by him, you saved his life that night. There is no greater service to another human being that I know of.

 

[thephoenix]

I agree with you spreadeagle, there are definitely better, more useful ways I could be using my energy to help rather than focusing on patch ups. Ultimately, he's a big boy and has quite a mess on his hands. As much as I would like to take the mop and clean it up for him, there's no way I can. I'll admit I got caught up in all the dramatics because well, my best friend had just been injured in one of the worst ways. My first instinct was to take over and fix it all myself. Now, I'm seeing how he's treating me and how he is just keeping himself in this incredibly painful cycle and I want to stand back and let him do what he will. I can't change anybody, gosh I was so deluded in thinking my part extended beyond its actually boundaries. My part isn't over, I'll be called on again....the important thing is for me to answer when I am. My plan now I guess is to just lead by example. What is they say? Live as though the world is as it should be? I feel a little hypocritical not being out, but I'd like my friend to see I have a good life and am happy. I'm of the camp that believes you can live a productive, satisifying life by making you private life just that: private. I still feel really selfish having my feelings hurt over how he's been acting, but it surprises me the way he's been. Suddenly I'm not so sure I could count on him in the same capacity if there was a need and that makes me feel kind of sick and queasy....

Btw, spreadeagle, in your previous post those were valid questions from someone who is an outside party. On second consideration you weren't harsh at all, but I still think you were a little cynical

 

[spreadeagle]

Well I guess I was (am) a little cynical - as one of Henry James' heroines says - 'I've been taught by masters.' I believe that as gay men we don't live in a world of equality, and our optimism should be tempered with watchfulness. I presume you see the discrepancy between 'living as though the world is as it should be' and not being out.

Warmth and encouragement and support are all very well, but challenging or playing the devil's advocate can sometimes promote change (painful as it may be) or get people to review their situations from new perspectives.

It's not selfish to place your own needs first - you are your ultimate responsibility.

 

[thephoenix]

Oh yes, spreadeagle, I certainly see the discrepancy by not being out, which is why I feel hypocritical. It's just a sad, sad situation.