"Donnie Darko" Sequel in the works...

[Críostóir]

falconfan, Donnie isn't on the golf course because of Frank. Frank is on the golf course because that's where Donnie ended up. Frank is a time-traveling ghost. Donnie is on the golf course because he's a sleepwalker, and has other mental problems. He's heavily medicated for some of them.

The sleepwalking means that Donnie doesn't die in the original timeline. Frank informs him of what he did in the intervening days, because Frank remembers it (ghostly omniscience). Donnie takes this as instruction, because he doesn't yet know who Frank is (and hallucinations would not be unusual for someone as messed up as Donnie).

Self-fulfilling prophecy is a standard feature of time-travel fiction (when it's done well). See The Man Who Folded Himself (David Gerrold) for a particularly nice gay example.

I think, falconfan, that time-travel stories are just not your cup of tea. They don't make linear logical sense, it's true. There's an awful lot of suspension of disbelief required. I mean, no one can ever change the past, because if they succeed they won't go back to change it, right? Would you go back in time to make Napoleon lose at Waterloo? He lost! So there's always a logical paradox inherent in ANY time-travel story that involves trying to change the past (for an example of a great time-travel story that doesn't, read Connie Willis' The Doomsday Book. Expect to have your heart torn out though; that book is extremely moving, and very sad things happen.

If that suspension of disbelief is more than you're willing to do (and believe me, I could understand that), then you're unlikely to enjoy time-travel fiction in general, and DD in particular. But right now you're doing the equivalent of saying "Gandalf couldn't do that! Magic doesn't really work!"

 

[Telstra]

I like both versions, with a slight preference to the newer.

the new song suits the mood.
the old one sounds like a disco music.

 

[falconfan]

It appears to me that out of 27 posts, 3 people have said they didn't like the movie. Which puts you in the minority. With that said, you cannot make the assumption that the movie didn't make sense period. Many people who saw it obviously understand it. I saw it, many times, and I totally understand. Críostóir obviously understands it to. Now that there are AT LEAST 2 people who understand it, you saying the movie doesn't make sense cannot be correct. Let's see the possible outcomes: We both may be wrong on what the movie is about, but that still wouldn't prove you right, which is what you're yearning for. There is no way you can be right because if there is at least one person, and as of right now, there is 2, person who understands it, it cannot prove your statement true. It makes your statement an opinion because nobody is supporting it. What you should have said, like Críostóir said previously, is that the movie did not make sense to you. It DID make sense to me, and to Críostóir, and to thousands others. I don't wish to argue, I' just telling you the actuality of what you claim to be true.

Ok being in the minority doesn't make me intrinsically wrong. The movie does NOT make sense period. It has obvious plot holes. It's easy to "understand" what the writers intended. I "understand" that but I'm not willing to over looking the gaping plot problems in the story to justify that reality. It has plot issues which subvert the story. It makes no damn sense. Period.

 

[falconfan]

falconfan, Donnie isn't on the golf course because of Frank. Frank is on the golf course because that's where Donnie ended up. Frank is a time-traveling ghost. Donnie is on the golf course because he's a sleepwalker, and has other mental problems. He's heavily medicated for some of them.

The sleepwalking means that Donnie doesn't die in the original timeline. Frank informs him of what he did in the intervening days, because Frank remembers it (ghostly omniscience). Donnie takes this as instruction, because he doesn't yet know who Frank is (and hallucinations would not be unusual for someone as messed up as Donnie).

Self-fulfilling prophecy is a standard feature of time-travel fiction (when it's done well). See The Man Who Folded Himself (David Gerrold) for a particularly nice gay example.

I think, falconfan, that time-travel stories are just not your cup of tea. They don't make linear logical sense, it's true. There's an awful lot of suspension of disbelief required. I mean, no one can ever change the past, because if they succeed they won't go back to change it, right? Would you go back in time to make Napoleon lose at Waterloo? He lost! So there's always a logical paradox inherent in ANY time-travel story that involves trying to change the past (for an example of a great time-travel story that doesn't, read Connie Willis' The Doomsday Book. Expect to have your heart torn out though; that book is extremely moving, and very sad things happen.

If that suspension of disbelief is more than you're willing to do (and believe me, I could understand that), then you're unlikely to enjoy time-travel fiction in general, and DD in particular. But right now you're doing the equivalent of saying "Gandalf couldn't do that! Magic doesn't really work!"

Nope. Just doesn't make sense. I'm fine with time travel. I get it just fine. I get the paradox. What I don't get is how someone who's not dead can lead to their own death by instructed someone to follow a course of action they wouldn't have followed otherwise. You're assertion that Frank is following Donnie and "Reminding" rather that instructing are not supported by the plot. This is because the hallucinizations of Donnie contain information, like Patrick Swazye's darker side that Donnie couldn't know, couldn't hallucinate, and couldn't possibly have sleep walked to with the intervention of Frank. Frank is guiding. Period. Frank can't guide because without his own guidance he's not dead. It's not an effect that undid it's cause, which is what is the primary paradox of time travel, it's simply and effect that for no reason proceeded it's cause.

Even ignoring that... the "Normal" timeline in which Donnie is crushed is depended on the existence of the abnormal storyline. The jet engine should have crushed Donnie, or that's how it's presented. But the jet engine traveling through time is depend upon the alteration of time itself which leads to teh time storm. It doesn't make sense. Once more it's not a effect that is undoing it's cause but an effect that proceeds it's cause for no reason.

The recurrence of the rabbit mask at the part, the placement of Donnie's family on the plane, the red herring of the link between Frank and Donnie's medication are all devices used to elicit a response from the audience rather than tell a story. They're examples of the filmakers intent to manipulate you into like the film rather than make a solid coherent story.

The film lacks logic.

 

[Glafna]

the new song suits the mood.
the old one sounds like a disco music.

True enough I guess, although I still like em both.

 

[Glafna]

In all honesty, all this debate is just making me want to go see No 1 and No 2 that much more. Thanks for the push, lol.

 

[Telstra]

people analyze the movie too serioulsy. but good to analyze tho.

i still think its not about time travel.
Its about mental illness.

 

[Críostóir]

falconfan, you need to reread what I said. I didn't say Frank wasn't giving Donnie information he didn't have already. That's the essence of time-travel paradox.

You know what? Just avoid anything with time travel in it. You'll just rant endlessly about how it makes no sense. If you've ever seen a time-travel story that DID make sense, tell me, and I'll show you why it doesn't.

 

[falconfan]

falconfan, you need to reread what I said. I didn't say Frank wasn't giving Donnie information he didn't have already. That's the essence of time-travel paradox.

You know what? Just avoid anything with time travel in it. You'll just rant endlessly about how it makes no sense. If you've ever seen a time-travel story that DID make sense, tell me, and I'll show you why it doesn't.

It has nothing to do with the mere fact it's time travel.

I said very blatantly what the problem is.

The time travel paradox stems from when there is a cause that leads to an effect that undoes the cause which in turn undoes the effect which reinstates the cause which leads to the effect which undoes the cause and etc....

That's not what exists here. Here there is simply an effect that predates the cause for no apparent reason and they're using time travel as a screen for poor story writing.

 

[Críostóir]

I'm told that whoever gets the last word loses the argument. So right now, I lose.

 

[pacz]

Anyone having difficulty understanding Donnie Darko should try to watch the Director's cut, pause the screen when the pages of Sparrow's book come up and read them. That should make things easier.

Also, a great Donnie Darko web site (game) http://www.donniedarkofilm.com/

 

[Royal Heart]

I'll take "Sequels We Neither Need Nor Want" for 400, Alex.