Forcing people out of the closet

[Sha-Rok]

I just so happened to be at a Gay mans health clinic party with my partner a few nights ago. Being that we where the youngest guys there we became the center of attention. It was ok..however it seemed like everybody was trying to us to come out to our parents! Very Very annoying. I want to drink and eat not talk about my sex life with a bunch of middle age men. Is this a common practice among the gay crowd?

I'm just venting

 

[Seasoned]

So what is your complaint? Were they pressuring you to come out to your parents, or were they too inquisitive as to your sex life, or both? You were in the perfect venue to be yourself. "I'd like to be a part of this group, but I don't like this pressure. If it doesn't stop, I need to leave."

 

[Royal Heart]

That does seem rude to me. If you're not ready to come out, then you're not ready and they should respect that.

 

[TX-Beau]

That does seem rude to me. If you're not ready to come out, then you're not ready and they should respect that.

People say this a lot. So what does it mean? Aside from someone actually outing you, no one is going to force you to come out no matter what they say. The only thing "not being ready" means, is that no one is going to be able to convince you to stop the lying and hiding. That's it, nothing else.

I for one find it strange that guys in the closet will try to insist that guys out of the closet respect it.

What's there to respect? The lies? The panic? The fear? The deception? The frustration? The desperation? The loneliness? The isolation?

On the contrary, guys who are in the closet are precisely the people who need to hear that it's possible to live out of it, and possible to build an honest foundation for your life. If you're a guy in the closet, you might try actually listening to what all these other guys - who have been there and done that - have to say, instead of reacting with panic and fear that in some nebulous way they might expose your guilty little secret.

 

[TX-Beau]

I just so happened to be at a Gay mans health clinic party with my partner a few nights ago. Being that we where the youngest guys there we became the center of attention. It was ok..however it seemed like everybody was trying to us to come out to our parents! Very Very annoying. I want to drink and eat not talk about my sex life with a bunch of middle age men. Is this a common practice among the gay crowd?

I'm just venting

So don't tell your parents. Don't go back. Problem solved.

I fail to see how anyone in your scenario tried to force you to do anything.

 

[G-Lexington]

My common comment to this is that I don't to push people into coming out before they're ready. Instead, I try to make them realize that they might already BE ready.

A lot of times, coming out (especially in much of the US) is like pulling a splinter. The build-up to "OMG, it's gonna hurt" ends up being storm and fury, and the actual event is absolutely nothing at all. But we can get so worried about what MIGHT happen that we're afraid to make a move. That position is understandable, sure, but life is gonna be pretty squirrely spent on the edge of the diving board. It's much better to get in there and swim.

So instead of saying "Tell your folks", I try to find out what exactly is keeping them back, and try to get them to think about it some more. If they're still in school, and still dependent on their folks, and their folks have shown a good deal of homophobic behavior, then yes - stay in. But once they're on their own, and living their own lives, there's less reason to keep up the facade.

Lex

 

[Royal Heart]

What's there to respect? The lies? The panic? The fear? The deception? The frustration? The desperation? The loneliness? The isolation?

You have to respect the fact that it's not always safe or wise to everyone to come out. It's not our place to tell other people who to live their lives, or how to handle their relationships.

We can say that we encourage all gay men to come out, and I certainly do, but we have to understand that it's just not that easy. Not everyone lives in an environment that is supportive or even healthy.

We're not respecting lies, panic, fear or deception. We're respecting the right to choice, and that sometimes life just sucks.

My common comment to this is that I don't to push people into coming out before they're ready. Instead, I try to make them realize that they might already BE ready.

I think this is important.

I suspect there are a good number of closeted gay men who are ready to come out, but haven't because fear is the only thing standing in the way.

 

[TX-Beau]

You have to respect the fact that it's not always safe or wise to everyone to come out. It's not our place to tell other people who to live their lives, or how to handle their relationships.

We can say that we encourage all gay men to come out, and I certainly do, but we have to understand that it's just not that easy. Not everyone lives in an environment that is supportive or even healthy.

Oh Please. It's exactly our place to speak up, if we don't who will? Please leave relationships out of it. Relationships aren't the closet. You think that most of us haven't been in the closet? You think we don't' understand?

The vast majority of us have been there and there's nothing guys in the closet can teach us about it. Nor is there anyone in here who isn't sympathetic. But making justifications for the dishonesty - and that's what that is, doesn't help anyone.

Guys who got out of it, have a lot to say to guys who haven't gotten out of it. Do you honestly think that talking about the closet and our experiences with is some kind of "respect,' for how hard it is to live there. Maybe those of us who speak up are doing so because we know exactly how hard it is.

We're not respecting lies, panic, fear or deception. We're respecting the right to choice, and that sometimes life just sucks.

Oh come on, that's just more justification. No one wants to live in the closet, some guys are just afraid to leave it.

Which is why it's important to speak up.

 

[keefersweeper]

I suspect there are a good number of closeted gay men who are ready to come out, but haven't because fear is the only thing standing in the way.

this seems to be my deal, i know i have nothing to fear from my parents reaction... right now my excuse is i dont want to ruin christmas

since i've told my gay friend about my own sexuality he is openly affectionate to his boyfriend in front of me, and seeing the freedom of love between them makes me want to come out all the more.

but,

when i have people over i've been putting on a lot of shows like US of Tara that depict gay couples and issues to sort of forecast how my straight friends reaction might be to my coming out to them and their reactions, i fear are pushing me back deeper into the closet.

so im totaly stumped... the door is at least unlocked, but remains closed.

 

[Royal Heart]

Oh come on, that's just more justification. No one wants to live in the closet, some guys are just afraid to leave it.

Please, it's important that you understand, it really isn't always safe for gays to come out. Surely you must realize that there are many places where being gay and out is dangerous. Do you understand this? It's not "justification" it's a fact.

Secondly, are you really saying that no one should have a choice when it comes to telling their family and friends they're gay?

this seems to be my deal, i know i have nothing to fear from my parents reaction... right now my excuse is i dont want to ruin christmas

Make it your New Year's resolution.

when i have people over i've been putting on a lot of shows like US of Tara that depict gay couples and issues to sort of forecast how my straight friends reaction might be to my coming out to them and their reactions, i fear are pushing me back deeper into the closet.

I had those same fears when I came out in High School, but I figured that those who matter wouldn't mind if I was gay, and those who minded didn't matter. It would tell me who cared about my happiness and who were in this friendship for purely selfish reasons.

Fortunately it worked out really well. None of my friends rejected me and the tasteless gay jokes stopped.

 

[Lube]

this seems to be my deal, i know i have nothing to fear from my parents reaction... right now my excuse is i dont want to ruin christmas

since i've told my gay friend about my own sexuality he is openly affectionate to his boyfriend in front of me, and seeing the freedom of love between them makes me want to come out all the more.

but,

when i have people over i've been putting on a lot of shows like US of Tara that depict gay couples and issues to sort of forecast how my straight friends reaction might be to my coming out to them and their reactions, i fear are pushing me back deeper into the closet.

so im totaly stumped... the door is at least unlocked, but remains closed.

Stumped... about what, exactly?

I mean, your comment about not ruining Christmas was cute.

But after the cuteness wears off, there's really no reason not to come out. And there's no need to "test" people's reactions. C'mon, man--they already know! (as my latest blog entry summarizes)

Just do it.

They're waiting for you to.

 

[Lube]

Please, it's important that you understand, it really isn't always safe for gays to come out. Surely you must realize that there are many places where being gay and out is dangerous. Do you understand this? It's not "justification" it's a fact.

Well, it's certainly a lot rarer nowadays.

Even Houston, Texas elected a lesbian as their mayor.

C'mon. The "unsafe" excuse, while sometimes true, is pretty limited in America nowadays.

 

[Royal Heart]

Well, it's certainly a lot rarer nowadays.

In some places, yes.

C'mon. The "unsafe" excuse, while sometimes true, is pretty limited in America nowadays.

There's sad statistics showing that things are actually becoming increasingly unsafe in America:

2007: 1,460 hate crime offenses based on sexual-orientation bias were reported by law enforcement agencies. Of these offenses:

59.2 percent were classified as anti-male homosexual bias.
24.8 percent were reported as anti-homosexual bias.
12.6 percent were prompted by an anti-female homosexual bias.
1.8 percent were the result of an anti-heterosexual bias.
1.6 percent were classified as anti-bisexual bias.

2006: 1,415 hate crime offenses based on sexual-orientation bias were reported by law enforcement agencies. Of these offenses:

62.3 percent were classified as anti-male homosexual biased.
20.7 percent were classified as anti-homosexual biased.
13.6 percent were classified as anti-female homosexual biased.
2.0 percent were classified as anti-heterosexual biased.
1.5 percent were classified as anti-bisexual biased.

2005: 1,171 hate crime offenses based on sexual-orientation bias were reported by law enforcement agencies. Of these offenses:

60.9 percent were anti-male homosexual.
19.5 percent were anti-homosexual.
15.4 percent were anti-female homosexual.
2.0 percent were anti-heterosexual.
2.3 percent were anti-bisexual.

http://gaylife.about.com/od/hatecrimes/a/statistics.htm

Those stats are still pretty low, of course. I mean 1500 reported incidents in a country of 300 000 000 people actually surprised me. I think I have to concede to you. I can't base my opinions on un-reported incidents because, really, how am I going to know what doesn't get reported? So I'll hand it to you that it's not as unsafe to come out in America as it may appear to be.

 

[Lube]

Thanks, I'm glad we agree. I mean, sure, I'd like those numbers to be zero as much as you would. But is it enough to keep someone in the closet? Racially-motived hate crimes are over 3 times higher than sexual orientation hate crimes--and people with different skin color have no way of staying in the closet.

Staying in the closet is like continuing to sit in the back of the bus. It's accepting that it's wrong to be who you are.

And that's wrong.

 

[NineOfClubs]

As per the above crime statistics:

They're not easy to interpret.

I think today enough people are more comfortable with being out and gay, that they are more likely to report such crimes, while in past years fewer people felt it safe to do so....

 

[Inevitable2012]

I recently came out to my Mom... she's having a hard time dealing with it emotionally but she's told me she'll get over it eventually. Whereas my Dad is an ass and when he finds out... I"ll be out of the house.

 

[Scimitar]

Do remember the evil that religion can be is virulent enough to blind some people's families from ever accepting them. There are those out there who would love to fly out of the closet, but as a result of their entire community they can't. This is common in immigrant families, where their entire network here in the US is other immigrants, and it is not accepted at all. Thus if they do come out they would be completely on their own.

 

[Lube]

Do remember the evil that religion can be is virulent enough to blind some people's families from ever accepting them. There are those out there who would love to fly out of the closet, but as a result of their entire community they can't. This is common in immigrant families, where their entire network here in the US is other immigrants, and it is not accepted at all. Thus if they do come out they would be completely on their own.

40 years ago that's what any gay man in America had to do.

10-20 years ago that's why rural gays moved to the city. Lead a double life (gay in the city, closeted at home) or just came out and moved to the city by choice or from being thrown out.

I had 2 siblings thrown out of the house (not because they were gay). They survived. Makes you grow up real fast.

Is it ideal? No, of course not. But taking a stand for yourself is never easy.

This country was started by people who fled the known world for an unknown world to avoid religious persecution. But young adults can't leave their own parents' cocoon nowadays.

Being coddled is for babies, not adults.

 

[tallguy297]

Hey Sha-rok,

Mate, before your thread completely derails into an argument about statistics surrounding gay men lets try and get some perspective about this.

Your life isnt about statistics, nor is it about hate crimes or the likely hood of those figures factoring into your life. You are already partnered, you are living a gay lifestyle. If those meaningless stats were to say anything to you its that you are already at a higher risk whether or not you come out.

So, forget them. Forget the big picture. Forget worrying about any one or everyone else, because at the end of the day you wouldn't ride a bus either if you worried about stats.

The reason most older guys (and this also applies to you keefersweeper) urge you to come out, is simply so you dont waste too much of your life with lies and deceit... its really that simple.

A lot of older guys hid away, they lied, they went behind peoples backs - the people they cared about most usually - and lived double lives.

By the time they finally came out, by the time they finally were able to be who they really were in front of family and friends they realized they wasted years. Years they could have shared their own joy and happiness with thier families, instead of offering vague answers and trying to hide away.

Its actually an effort to stop you making thier mistakes. Its not meant to be pressure, its not meant to be annoying, its simply an effort to try and stop you falling into the trap they did.

But ultimately its up to you.

Coming out doesnt change the world. Nor does it subject you to increased chances of assault... or being the president.

It simply allows you, to a very selective and close group of people you love, to be you. To be open, to share your life with and to be proud of who you are, with the family that cares about you.

It lets you bring your bf home. It lets you stop being evasive and it lets you shine the way you know you can.

So is it common practise? In a group of guys like the ones you were with that night, yes mate I would say it is. Its just us looking out for our own.

 

[slickery]

Sometimes people just need a push out the door.

Your parents already know, just tell them.