Frustration with other gays.

[ToolFan24]

Hello everyone. I have a miscellaneous concern involving college. I just finished my first semester at a large university. During the time, I managed to meet other gay kids, as I joined every possible lgbt group. My frustration, however, lies within the community. I am noticing a trend within the young group: they are all unbelievably shallow. I constantly find myself disgusted with the group of kids, many of whom I found attractive at first. We had formed a group interested in beginning a gay fraternity. At our first meeting, they were unbievably judgmental about who would or would not be allowed in the fraternity. I found this aggravating, as the group is formed to serve as a symbol against discriminaton. I would not express this annoyance within a forum if they were not, apparently, the only gay community at the university. I searhed for a community to join so that I would feel less ostracized from my peers, yet I find myself feeling like an outcast even within the gay community. It feels like interacting with a group of high schol girls casted for the new mean girls movie. Being the only "straight" gay within a this group of femmes Makes even more difficult to identify with them. Is this normal? Am I too close minded? Do I just need to search harder to find people with which I can identify?

 

[sdmister4]

i feel the same way about the LGBT group at my school actually. i joined sophomore year because i just came out of the closet and had no gay friends to speak of. unfortunately the group turned out to be one of the most fake groups i've ever seen, fake in the sense that they were friendly while i was in the meetings, but most of them wouldn't recognize me if we were walking down campus. out of probably 30 people in the group, there are only 2 that are genuine. and if you think about it, maybe it's not entirely their fault. most gays--as we would all agree--have gone through a period of hiding their real selves behind a big facade. when we come out, it feels like standing naked in a crowded room, so we want to cover up, and it's easiest to cover up with something that's familiar, so they still put on a big show for the world, it's just not a closet door anymore.

if you've tried to be friends with them and just didn't like their personalities, it's not being close minded, it's just knowing the kind of people you don't want to hang out with. if you end up disliking all the gay guys in the area, you may just be stuck with your straight friends for now. there's no reason to try to fit in if you don't like what you're fitting in to.

 

[greyhorse]

Yes it is unfortunate that even within a community of supposedly like minded people there are these cliques. I find that "straight" gay guys don't tend to associate in general with the "gay" community and either just want sex or find someone they can be themselves with and leave their association at that! So you just have to find the people you can befriend and be happy with that. Good luck and have a great time in college. Cheers, G

 

[KaraBulut]

We had formed a group interested in beginning a gay fraternity. At our first meeting, they were unbievably judgmental about who would or would not be allowed in the fraternity. I found this aggravating, as the group is formed to serve as a symbol against discriminaton.

So, in other words... a group of gay kids who were probably bullied in high school now have the opportunity to bully other people?

So, did you speak up?

It feels like interacting with a group of high schol girls casted for the new mean girls movie. Being the only "straight" gay within a this group of femmes Makes even more difficult to identify with them. Is this normal? Am I too close minded? Do I just need to search harder to find people with which I can identify?

Here's the irony: a lot of the "straight" gays are hiding in the closet. These "femmes" are probably a lot braver. It takes balls to just put it out there and be who you are without an apology.

What you are saying is a common discussion at JUB- that it's tough for more masculine gays to relate to more effeminate gay guys. Some of it is just the discomfort of being in public with a guy who is obvious gay (which tags you as as gay by association). Some of it is just a difference in interests- fashion/arts vs football for example.

But you and the "femmes" do have something in common: you both like cock. That's always something to keep in mind.

You're trying to relate to a group of people who like different things that you do. In all likelihood, it's masculinity that's a turnon for you. So, you just have to make a distinction between acquaintances that you know who are gay and your friends who are people with whom you have common interests and values.

It does take a while to see past the flaming and queeny behavior of some guys to see who they are and whether you have something in common with them. Some of the less masculine gay guys are very caring and grounded guys who can be your best friend in the world. And if you're looking to meet guys, the more effeminate guys know who's gay and you will meet guys like you through going to their parties and being in their circle.

The key is that you have to be willing to look past whether people are effeminate or butch and take the time to get to know them.

But keep this in mind- if someone is bullying people and putting them down then it doesn't matter whether they're butch or queeny. It's wrong. Speak up and tell them it's wrong. And remind them that they've probably been on the receiving end of bullying and it sucks.... but it doesn't give them the right to bully other people.

 

[ohioguy7711]

Much of what the OP complains about is the true nature of the world at large. Most people are not deep thinkers, open minded or critical thinkers. More so, every group you join, whether it is Gay and Lesbian, a fraternity, a chorus, a work place is going to have a wide range of people who offer a wide range of views and interests. My college fraternity had over 75 members at any given point. I was friendly with 85% of the group. I was close friends with three or four. My Gay and Lesbian campus group had about 50 members of which I was close to about three. Friendly to many and in competition or hostile to some (this was a political group and many opinions were shared. Not everybody agreed all the time).

I just started working for a new company and there are about 15 of us in the training class. We have been in training for a few weeks. It is impossible to be friends with everybody in the group. I have formed acquaintances with a couple of the guys in the class as we share certain similarities, interests, backgrounds, hobbies, etc. Through conversation and dumb luck each of us has found those we liked and "clicked" with.

When joining a group, join because you like what the group does. Find those in that group that do the things you like to do and share your values. Be kind to all members of the group as you never know who might be of value to you in the future. Even though there are people in the group who do not share your "values" (you call them shallow... my guess is they think you are uptight... just consider that for a moment) there must be those who DO or the group would simply crumble.

As for starting a fraternity, if the idea is to start a group that does not discriminate, well that's a club. A fraternity is a group who share like values and ideals. That in and of itself is discriminatory. By joining, I am saying I like my values, they are different than yours and as yours are different, you are not really welcome here.

 

[hylas]

im sorry that youre having a bad experience. dont think all gay men are like that... in fact, i always felt that gay men are very easy to be friends with. maybe its just a sad coincidence that almost every gay guy at your uni is a twat. (although that makes me a little suspicious. is it really that hard to find decent gay friends?)

anyway, i notice that you use terms like 'girly' and 'fem' as synonyms for 'bitchy', 'shallow', and 'fake'. it might be true that some fem gays are also mean and shallow, but be careful there. theres a lot of predjudice against fem guys, also from other 'straight-acting' gays, and thats just as bitchy and shallow.

dont hang out with shallow, cliquish bitches. but dont dismiss a guy, just because hes effeminate, either. most fem guys arent faking it; being fem is who they truly are, and being a fem guy takes a lot more courage than being 'straight-acting'.

 

[MeDarrin]

Much of what the OP complains about is the true nature of the world at large. Most people are not deep thinkers, open minded or critical thinkers. More so, every group you join, whether it is Gay and Lesbian, a fraternity, a chorus, a work place is going to have a wide range of people who offer a wide range of views and interests.

Very true. There are gay people I really like and there are gay people I really do not like.

I've also learned that sometimes WE are more of a problem than we think. For example, we may have had an interaction or two with people and we assume that every individual member of that group is probably like that. Some times if we're patient and extend ourselves, we will see some good results.

A couple of very, very good friends I've made in life I did NOT like at first! I thought they were "rude" to me. Sometimes you just need to give some people a chance.

Also, I have to be careful of how easily I throw around the "shallow" judgment to others. How do I know they're "shallow"? If they are laughing about a TV show or talking about a pair of jeans, does that make them "shallow"? I've talked about the nature of the universe and I've also talked endlessly about a Golden Girls episode. If a newbie walked in and heard me laughing about Golden Girls, I guess I'd be dismissed as "shallow."

There are actually very few "shallow" people in the world. Then again, aren't WE shallow if we won't give people a chance past their exterior?

Get past their defense layer and you may find them to be a lot better--or worse. But don't give up. Not all gays on that campus are going to be bad. Not all people reveal themselves straight up. I myself, considered outgoing, am actually not at all until I feel really comfortable.

 

[bigdaddyhorse]

i feel the same way about the LGBT group at my school actually. i joined sophomore year because i just came out of the closet and had no gay friends to speak of. unfortunately the group turned out to be one of the most fake groups i've ever seen, fake in the sense that they were friendly while i was in the meetings, but most of them wouldn't recognize me if we were walking down campus. out of probably 30 people in the group, there are only 2 that are genuine. and if you think about it, maybe it's not entirely their fault. most gays--as we would all agree--have gone through a period of hiding their real selves behind a big facade. when we come out, it feels like standing naked in a crowded room, so we want to cover up, and it's easiest to cover up with something that's familiar, so they still put on a big show for the world, it's just not a closet door anymore.

if you've tried to be friends with them and just didn't like their personalities, it's not being close minded, it's just knowing the kind of people you don't want to hang out with. if you end up disliking all the gay guys in the area, you may just be stuck with your straight friends for now. there's no reason to try to fit in if you don't like what you're fitting in to.

If you're meeting with these people in a group, maybe you could use that opportunity to say something about how you feel. If that is the only LGBT group on campus then there is no reason that everyone who joins should be swayed into thinking the way you say these people do. Speak up. That's what these groups are all about.

 

[interesting]

Then again, aren't WE shallow if we won't give people a chance past their exterior?

Indeed, I wouldn't say that all of the people you've met are shallow. I would at least get a chance to know some of them. At my university, I've been to actually only 1 LGBT meeting, and I found the people to be quite nice. A majority of them joked around and have fun, not really making any comments that I found to be selfish.

So to respond to your question, no, the majority of gay guys are not like that. There are always groups within a group, I'm sure you will be able to find yours.

 

[ToolFan24]

Thank you everyone for responding, I will try and make this an all-encompassing answer so as to respond to as many questions/concerns as possible. If I used the terms 'fem' or 'girly' in a synonymous way to 'bitchy' or 'shallow', I apologize. That was not my intention and I will do my best to use more effective language. As many of you expressed, I need to be wary of how I perceive effeminate gays. It is not that I automatically look at them judgmentally and make a decision off of pretenses. I have quite a few fem friends that mean the world to me. I love our differences and am actually drawn to the care-free and open way in which they live. With this specific group, it was not until about halfway through the semester, after I had gotten to know them, that I began to notice these things. And it is not that I do not live openly, because i do. I am the kid you'll see running around with the HRC or the FCKH8 tee shirt. A lot of the time, however, I find it difficult to find common ground between us(other than the liking boys part), because I am your typical engineering major, metal head skater boy. While they would leap at the chance to go to a mall and shop, I would rather grab a board and hit up DC for the day. While I have tried many times to tag along and enjoy myself within the group, I find that it is just not who I am. And none of this is to say that I dislike (all of) them. It is quite the contrary. This is specifically on the grounds of attraction.

My differences aside now, my main concern is exactly what you all have expressed. I can't believe that this group, which apparently is an anomaly of sorts, is the only one around me. I'm attending a university with 30,000 some undergrad students. I was shocked when I saw the small size of the lgbt community. I guess I had formed a little fantasy image in my mind of walking into a gay epicenter, where everyone was as comfortable with their sexuality as i am. To answer the questions as to what I am pursuing; I am not looking for meaningless sex. In the long run, I am looking for a relationship. For now, however, it will suffice to establish a group of gay friends.

As for the fraternity situation, I have given up on that group. I reached the point in that meeting where I told them exactly how I felt and exactly what was wrong with what they were doing. Only a couple of them speak to me now because the others, obviously, did not like what I said. Being around discrimination infuriates me, let alone from within the gay community.

As for finding another locale, I am under the age of 21, leaving me with limited options. There are two gay clubs in the city, which are very popular with this group of kids. I find it hard, however, to envision going to a gay club to meet someone, as opposed to finding a hookup.

 

[LiveForLove]

It sounds like frustration with your university or situation rather than gay people in general. There are nice gay guys who are looking for a meaningful, monogamous relationship out there. Just be patient (easier said than done) and you will find someone else like you.

 

[Rooster]

Have you considered making nongay friends? It sounds like you are interested in the political aspect of gay rights anyways, so why not start a Gay Straight alliance at your college? There are a lot of straight people who are passionate about gay rights and they make great friends.

Also, it's already been said, but all groups have drama. It can't be avoided.

 

[KaraBulut]

My differences aside now, my main concern is exactly what you all have expressed. I can't believe that this group, which apparently is an anomaly of sorts, is the only one around me. I'm attending a university with 30,000 some undergrad students. I was shocked when I saw the small size of the lgbt community. I guess I had formed a little fantasy image in my mind of walking into a gay epicenter, where everyone was as comfortable with their sexuality as i am. To answer the questions as to what I am pursuing; I am not looking for meaningless sex. In the long run, I am looking for a relationship. For now, however, it will suffice to establish a group of gay friends.

GLBT university groups are a place to start but they're not the end-all-be-all of university gay life. Many universities have a gay graduate student social group that tends to have a more mature group of students. Given your interests, it might work better for you to find gay social groups in town- like the local gay political caucus, a gay professionals networking group or a group that shares a common interest. If you're close to DC, there's lots of options - especially around the Dupont Circle and Georgetown areas.

 

[Mstrshake]

Aww, this makes me want to meet you.

 

[slnattak]

Large universities aren't for everybody. They're pretty fake to me.

But then again I'm fake and shallow too. I think everybody wants people deep and interesting and like caring and sensitive. But it's hard to ignore that I prefer a certain body type, or an image. Would you yourself really be in a genuine romantic partnership to somebody that was buttshit ugly? Or would you want to you know, help him look better, so other people could see the heart inside? After all, if you really are as deep as you say you were, you wouldn't care how ugly your boyfriend is. But I don't buy that.

I prefer a bitchy, fashion-centric shallow gay men telling me if I'm doing something socially wrong or inappropriate actually. I think everybody needs that.

See the sad thing about human beings is we want other people to be nicer without being that way ourselves.

 

[MrMiles]

Large universities aren't for everybody. They're pretty fake to me.

But then again I'm fake and shallow too. I think everybody wants people deep and interesting and like caring and sensitive. But it's hard to ignore that I prefer a certain body type, or an image. Would you yourself really be in a genuine romantic partnership to somebody that was buttshit ugly? Or would you want to you know, help him look better, so other people could see the heart inside? After all, if you really are as deep as you say you were, you wouldn't care how ugly your boyfriend is. But I don't buy that.

I prefer a bitchy, fashion-centric shallow gay men telling me if I'm doing something socially wrong or inappropriate actually. I think everybody needs that.

See the sad thing about human beings is we want other people to be nicer without being that way ourselves.

Isn't the thread about having friends in some kind of a fraternity for gay people? I do think that some of them might end up being partners, if not most of them, but we are talking about making a group of individuals that are not judgmental for having a same sex partner. One of them might be your boyfriend. Some of the rest might end up being your best friend/s. Or is having an ugly friend downgrading as in less guys will like me because of who I am friends with instead of who I actually am? I see what you mean by wanting people to be nicer when you are shallow. But that's hypocritical. So I think you yourself should start being nicer in order to notice people treat you differently.

 

[cielo100050]

"Even the huge "manly" fraternities at my school are little douche bitches"

this made me laugh.

 

[future_retro]

ToolFan, I found this when I was your age and going to LGBT groups at university (in Brisbane, Australia). I have a friend in London who told me the experience was the same for him. I think this 'problem' is pretty universal. But not to worry, what you'll find is that while you'll never discover a perfect group of like-minded gay people, over time you'll naturally form your own group. Give it a few more years of meeting people, making friends etc. and one day you'll realise you'll have your own group. It won't be a formal one that meets in a room at a certain time but it will be just as real and probably much more supportive, fun and interesting.

 

[chance1]

just came across this thread and it resonated

was out thursday night - big night out - everyone home from college - day before christmas eve - got to the dance club early - had a good hour before the dancing got going full throttle

good but new friend met me early - and a couple of his buds showed as well - we began to chat about jobs, life, not just pop culture stuff

i brought up DADT and how amazing it was that it was finally repealed - 3 of the group of 5 did not know what it was - and the other 2 did not know any specifics - couldn't really explain why it was so good that it was repealed

i was really bummed

it sorta hit the same chord of ........... there is no gay "struggle" - that the current crop of gay youth does not really necessarily appreciate the situation - and think that they have what they need

interesting

had a great time that night - we danced - and had a blast

but it stuck with me

 

[scream4ever]

I agree with this post 100%. I went to a medium sized public university in a decently liberal city, so I was not scared to be out at all. Regardless, I made friends with a lesbian member of the QASUm and started doing some things with the group. A lot of the members I gotta say were either very shallow and flaky. A couple months later my friend was killed in a plane crash and my closest friends were busy, so I asked her to hang out and explained the situation. She said something along the lines of that she didn't want to speak to me for a while because the last time I was at her place she said I should leave soon because it was getting late. I then said I'd leave in a few minutes and that reminded her of when she was raped. IMO she had no right to do that because I needed a freind and I didn't know what happened to her after all. One of the other friends I made basically supported her and hung out with me out of pity and then left early after my sister told us to be quiet. I never recovered my friendship with the first girl and the 2nd one stayed casual for a while but eventually fizzled out.

Also, most of them seemed very uninvolved/apathetic about civil rights. I brought up Prop 8 at one point and they all basically shrugged their shoulders at it.