Geological Time: A Republican Explains

[EastMed]

GQ: How old do you think the Earth is?
Marco Rubio: I'm not a scientist, man. I can tell you what recorded history says, I can tell you what the Bible says, but I think that's a dispute amongst theologians and I think it has nothing to do with the gross domestic product or economic growth of the United States. I think the age of the universe has zero to do with how our economy is going to grow. I'm not a scientist. I don't think I'm qualified to answer a question like that. At the end of the day, I think there are multiple theories out there on how the universe was created and I think this is a country where people should have the opportunity to teach them all. I think parents should be able to teach their kids what their faith says, what science says. Whether the Earth was created in 7 days, or 7 actual eras, I'm not sure we'll ever be able to answer that. It's one of the great mysteries

Is Mr Rubio suggesting we suffer a form of cognitive impairment whereby we cannot distinguish fact from fiction?

And is he not offering a justification of his theological views by way of epistemic relativism?

I think we should be told.


http://www.slate.com/blogs/weigel/2..._some_science_about_the_age_of_the_earth.html

 

[rareboy]

He is an idiot.

And trying to play to the religious reactionary base who don't hold with all that fact stuff.

 

[Laufey]

They should "teach" faith at churches...

And teach science in schools. Not both.

 

[palbert]

He is an idiot -- and a dangerous one. So stereotypically reactionary Cuban trying to straddle a divide. (And before you say anything I had a Cuban lover for 17 years and lived in Miami until 1990.)

 

[palemale]

What is disturbing is that most Republican office holders know better. I believe Rubio is Catholic, and Catholicism teaches that evolution is a real and true, just divinely inspired. So he cannot even say that evolution is inconsistent with his religion. He refuses to acknowledge the truth because it will hurt him with an important part of the Republican base. However, any political party that will not acknowledge scientific truth, mathematics and evidence, is unfit to govern. The Republicans want to teach mythology as science.

 

[Sausy]

So long as the Republicans are dependent on the support of an anti-scientific religious base, it will not get my support on anything. Rubio can't really believe what he's saying here. He just doesn't want to say "fuck your ignorance" and lose the evangelicals. Look what's happening in the Islamic world...when the zealously religious have tremendous power you march to their tune. The GOP has to stop the radical Christianists NOW.

 

[Jack Springer]

Another liberal jackoff session going on here.

Then Sen. Obama was asked a simliar question in 2008 while running for President. He gave a similar response to the response given by Sen. Rubio. Neither Rubio or Obama fell into the trap the interviewer was asking. Sad thing is that most readers won't even spend the time to read the specifics -- they'll just go away with an understanding that meets their agenda.

The whole purpose of the question is to provide fodder for discussions like this and score talking points to diminish the person you want to slam.

Nothing to be gained by either side.

EPIC FAIL

And here's then-Sen. Obama, D-Ill., speaking at the Compassion Forum at Messiah College in Grantham, Pa. on April 13, 2008:
Q: Senator, if one of your daughters asked you—and maybe they already have—“Daddy, did god really create the world in 6 days?,” what would you say?
A: What I've said to them is that I believe that God created the universe and that the six days in the Bible may not be six days as we understand it … it may not be 24-hour days, and that's what I believe. I know there's always a debate between those who read the Bible literally and those who don't, and I think it's a legitimate debate within the Christian community of which I'm a part. My belief is that the story that the Bible tells about God creating this magnificent Earth on which we live—that is essentially true, that is fundamentally true. Now, whether it happened exactly as we might understand it reading the text of the Bible: That, I don't presume to know.

http://www.slate.com/articles/healt...politicians_hedge_about_whether_universe.html

 

[Kulindahr]

Another liberal jackoff session going on here.

Then Sen. Obama was asked a simliar question in 2008 while running for President. He gave a similar response to the response given by Sen. Rubio. Neither Rubio or Obama fell into the trap the interviewer was asking. Sad thing is that most readers won't even spend the time to read the specifics -- they'll just go away with an understanding that meets their agenda.

The whole purpose of the question is to provide fodder for discussions like this and score talking points to diminish the person you want to slam.

Nothing to be gained by either side.

EPIC FAIL



http://www.slate.com/articles/healt...politicians_hedge_about_whether_universe.html

Obama's answer is more coherent. It's also more theological, and on that level it's correct: Christians have argued since the start over whether those days are to be taken literally. It's known now that the type of literature is what's called a "royal chronicle", which is strange to us but can be treated as more poetic than anything else we're familiar with -- and without knowing it Obama seems fairly close to that understanding.

 

[Sausy]

What IS sad happens to be that 58% of today's Republicans, and 46% OF Americans in total actually believe the Earth is 10,000 years. The truly tragic price of allowing fundamentalists to get so involved in our political system that otherwise intelligent, capable people have to walk on eggshells to avoid pissing off the scientifically ignorant. Obama was probably a bit more forthcoming than Rubio was on the matter but then again Rubio's base genuinely strongly holds that view more than Democrats or independents do. The overall numbers should bring us a great deal of pause...WHY should so many Americans reject sound science to basically historical allegory not meant to be taken at its most literal word?

 

[rareboy]

Another liberal jackoff session going on here.

Then Sen. Obama was asked a simliar question in 2008 while running for President. He gave a similar response to the response given by Sen. Rubio. Neither Rubio or Obama fell into the trap the interviewer was asking. Sad thing is that most readers won't even spend the time to read the specifics -- they'll just go away with an understanding that meets their agenda.

The whole purpose of the question is to provide fodder for discussions like this and score talking points to diminish the person you want to slam.

Nothing to be gained by either side.

EPIC FAIL



http://www.slate.com/articles/healt...politicians_hedge_about_whether_universe.html

No. They handled it very differently.

But help us out here Jack in order to understand you better.

Do you believe in the translation of the Judeo/Christian/Islamic bible that the earth was created in 6 days less than 10,000 years ago?

 

[Rolyo85]

The most significant difference of course being that Obama doesn't suggest fairy tales be taught at schools as "possible fact".

 

[eastofeden]

I wish all politicians would permanently shut the fuck up about their religious beliefs.

 

[Kulindahr]

What IS sad happens to be that 58% of today's Republicans, and 46% OF Americans in total actually believe the Earth is 10,000 years. The truly tragic price of allowing fundamentalists to get so involved in our political system that otherwise intelligent, capable people have to walk on eggshells to avoid pissing off the scientifically ignorant. Obama was probably a bit more forthcoming than Rubio was on the matter but then again Rubio's base genuinely strongly holds that view more than Democrats or independents do. The overall numbers should bring us a great deal of pause...WHY should so many Americans reject sound science to basically historical allegory not meant to be taken at its most literal word?

What's even sadder is that people think the Bible says that -- it doesn't. It gives not the slightest hint of the age of the earth.

 

[Kulindahr]

No. They handled it very differently.

But help us out here Jack in order to understand you better.

Do you believe in the translation of the Judeo/Christian/Islamic bible that the earth was created in 6 days less than 10,000 years ago?

There is no Bible translation that says that. There are a couple of versions where the "study notes" or whatever make the claim, though.

 

[opinterph]

It's known now that the type of literature is what's called a "royal chronicle", which is strange to us but can be treated as more poetic than anything else we're familiar with ...

I'm having trouble finding a definition or similar explanation of "royal chronicle." Can you provide a link?

http://www.wordreference.com/definition/royal chronicle

 

[Centexfarmer]

I am NOT shitting any of y'all while I'm sharing this.

When I first purchased my farm in Central Texas I wanted to "grow organically."

Texas A&M University in College Station, Texas has a simple soil evaluation/pH test.

So this is what I did:

Three tablespoons of soil from my garden into a peanut butter jar.

3/4 cup of water.

Shake to mix.

Let it settle.

The heaviest material will settle to the bottom first; clay, then sand, then "organic material."

Depending upon which of those layers were the "thickest" would determine the "amendments" that needed to be added; mulch, manure, minerals, etc..

Before I sent off my soil sample to get a reading on the pH balance, I showed the peanut butter jar to my socially conservative GOP/Libertarian BFF since middle school friend.

He pointed at the jar and said, "That's proof of the Great Flood!"

I said, "What?"

And he said, "Remember that trip we took to the Grand Canyon?"

And I'm like,

"NO! 2,000 + years ago God did not put the Earth into a Peter Pan Peanut Butter jar, shake it up, then let it settle into a National Park!



I just want to figure out if I can grow plumb tomatoes!"

Turns out that I could, and we still haven't found the ark.

 

[Jack Springer]

No. They handled it very differently.

But help us out here Jack in order to understand you better.

Do you believe in the translation of the Judeo/Christian/Islamic bible that the earth was created in 6 days less than 10,000 years ago?

I understand what you are saying. No matter how Obama answered the question I won't dwell on that -- what's important is that we make the republican look stupid. It's what democrats have tried to do for years. Nothing much changes.

I believe that God created the world. How he did that, how long it took doesn't have anything to do with my faith -- nothing essential there for my salvation.

 

[Centexfarmer]

I understand what you are saying. No matter how Obama answered the question I won't dwell on that -- what's important is that we make the republican look stupid. It's what democrats have tried to do for years. Nothing much changes.

It's what Karl Rove HAS BEEN DOING FOR YEARS, and Obama played Rove Politics during this last election like a stand up Base.

I believe that God created the world. How he did that, how long it took doesn't have anything to do with my faith -- nothing essential there for my salvation.

Good Answer!

But that answer doesn't seem to work as well in judgement toward others with a differing perspective/damnation.

 

[Laufey]

I wish all politicians would permanently shut the fuck up about their religious beliefs.

Im so fortunate that religion isnt even mentioned here in politics, including the campaigning period. People simply dont give a shit and dont want politicians to preach religion.

In 2008 when the crash happened here our prime minister ended his speech by asking God to bless the country. It was one of the most talked about events for weeks because such a thing had never happened before and most people thought it was a really inappropriate thing to say.

 

[opinterph]

Is Mr Rubio suggesting we suffer a form of cognitive impairment whereby we cannot distinguish fact from fiction?

The Senator indicates that he is not qualified to render an absolute answer to this controversial issue. He seems to favor an approach that accommodates a variety of different viewpoints, while suggesting that the mystery of the Earth’s creation is not particularly relevant to his role as a senator.

[Is not Senator Rubio] offering a justification of his theological views by way of epistemic relativism?

As an infant, the senator was originally baptized as a Catholic. Prior to adulthood, he was later baptized as a Mormon and then reverted back to Catholicism.

As an adult, Rubio became married in a Catholic church and his children were baptized under the auspices of that same religion. Though he has regularly attended a Southern Baptist church, he considers himself to be a practicing Catholic.

From what I have read online, it appears that the Catholic Church is not particularly concerned about the timeline relating to the appearance of life on Earth, but indicates that to the extent evolution may have played a role, that development occurred under the guidance of God. The Catholic Church specifically denounces any belief in atheistic evolution and holds a special reverence for what it describes as “the human soul.”

In much the same way that Senator Rubio described how the age of the Earth lacks relevance to the role of a senator, the Catholic Church appears to indicate that sacred writings are not intended to provide a scientific exposition of nature, but rather to address matters relating to salvation. Is this the concept you intended to reference by mention of a justification through epistemic relativism?