Have we been wrong about covid-19 all this time? John Hopkins study on deaths...

[Dominus]

A closer look at U.S. deaths due to COVID-19 (The Johns Hopkins News-Letter / The Wayback Machine; November 22, 2020)

In short, this researcher looked at the number of deaths classified as covid deaths and compared to deaths of other causes in the past. When it came down to it, the total number of deaths have changed very little. The number of heart attack deaths along with other causes of deaths have decreased and covid deaths went up.

Have we been wrong this whole time? Did the people who died from covid were going to die anyway from something else?

 

[TX-Beau]

Re: Have we been wrong about covid-19 all this time? John Hopkins study on deaths...

The JHN article was pulled down on Thursday without explanation. The student newspaper on Friday wrote on Twitter that the article was “being used to support false and dangerous inaccuracies” about the impact of the pandemic, and that they “regret that this article may have contributed to the spread of misinformation about COVID-19.”

https://www.citizensjournal.us/john...own-article-questioning-covid-19-death-tolls/

Your article from the student paper has been yanked by the university.

Why didn't you know that, it took me 30 seconds to find?

 

[Dominus]

Why didn't you know that, it took me 30 seconds to find?

I knew that. But there was no explanation for why the article was pulled. As stated in the link you cited. How do we know the article was not pulled for reasons other than the facts presented?

 

[TX-Beau]

So you chose not to mention your source was no more? How do we know it was factual in the first place? Where was your skepticism when you posited an economics professor knew more about viruses than the epidemiologists?

Come on, you found an incendiary assertion out there somewhere and didn't bother to vet it.

 

[Alistair]

BTW it's Johns Hopkins.

 

[Dominus]

So you chose not to mention your source was no more? How do we know it was factual in the first place? Where was your skepticism when you posited an economics professor knew more about viruses than the epidemiologists?

Come on, you found an incendiary assertion out there somewhere and didn't bother to vet it.

I don't think it is fair of you to come off so strongly. I did not say here is an article take it as gospel blah blah blah. I found this article and I posed a question.

The economist certainly does not know more about the virus than the doctors and scientists that's been working on this problem. But how do we explain away the numbers she presented in her comparison of the number of deaths?

[Text: Removed]

 

[Dominus]

[Quoted Post: Removed]

I was fully aware that the researcher was an economist and not a biologist or doctor. I was also fully aware that the article was pulled.

Still doesn't explain the numbers that she presented and the connections that she made.

Yes, I was lurking on a right winger website and came across this. But as I have said many times on this forum, I try to be as objective as possible. Say Trump points o the sky and say the sky is blue and Biden points to the sky and say the sky is bright pink. Even though I hate Trump's guts, I'm not going to let my hate of him blind me from the fact that Trump is right that the sky is blue and Biden is wrong on this one.

We often criticize right wingers for being partisan bastards. Look what's happening here. You're dismissing this piece of info base purely on the fact that right wingers could be using it to promote their whacko ideas.

So, say tomorrow NASA finds bacterial life on another planet. Are you going to dismiss them too because area 51 alien spaceship crash landing conspiracy whackos might be using it to promote their conspiracy theories?

How do we explain away the fact that the total number of deaths have remained more or less the same as previous years?

 

[TX-Beau]

Oh Jesus Christ, I'm ignoring this article because the university it came from pulled it off the net and said it was misinformation. How explicit do you need them to be? Are you accusing Johns Hopkins of something nefarious?

You don't know anything she said was accurate. How do I know you're not her? How do I know there is no Santa Claus? How? Posing irrelevant hypotheticals at me does you no good.

I'm certainly going to take the decision of Johns Hopkins, over the rumormongering of an anonymous avatar on a gay porn website.

 

[NotHardUp1]

When it's all said and done, we will find that the COVID deaths among seniors is offsetting some natural death rate there, but it certainly isn't with the younger population. At any rate, it's not even, not among seniors either.

[Text: Removed]

As for vetting posts, that's a stupid standard. You're not a publisher, or a journalist, so you have no onus to scrub sources or get too independent sources, or even care.

 

[spooger]

The article linked to in the OP is still available under the Johns Hopkins banner.
It is a good read whether you accept it or refute it.

Thanks, Aristo for bringing this to the thread.

 

[opinterph]

The article linked to in the OP is still available under the Johns Hopkins banner.

A copy of the original article is linked within the notice of retraction.

A closer look at U.S. deaths due to COVID-19 (The Johns Hopkins News-Letter; November 27, 2020)

We decided on Nov. 26 to retract this article to stop the spread of misinformation, as we noted on social media. However, it is our responsibility as journalists to provide a historical record. We have chosen to take down the article from our website, but it is available here as a PDF.

 

[rareboy]

The article linked to in the OP is still available under the Johns Hopkins banner.
It is a good read whether you accept it or refute it.

Thanks, Aristo for bringing this to the thread.

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.

 

[mcbrion]

Given that the highest number of deaths happens among minorities (at least in the US), how much of this was factored into the statistics?

Blacks and Hispanics have been the hardest hit by this. One of the interesting factors is that Black and Hispanic skin do not absorb Vitamin D (higher percentage of melanin, which protects against sunburns) at the same rate White skin does (less melanin). And, around the world, studies have shown that people who died had - for the most part - a Vitamin D deficiency. The highest hospitalizations and ICU units showed this to be a consistent fact. In actuality, 12% of the world suffers from a vitamin D deficiency. (Over a billion people). It's a wonder more people haven't died, keeping this in mind.

How much of these factors (ethnicity, location) was taken into account by this study? What countries does the study mainly encompass? Without more information, this does not present a full photograph of the disease and the deaths that followed.

 

[NotHardUp1]

^And is the trend actually racial rather than cultural or economic?

In the US, black and brown races are generally economically poorer than the majority population, which could have obvious consequences in access to health care, quality of health care, as well as ability to follow quarantine and other prophylactic recommendations.

And, culturally, minority communities here might be less prone to observe state-issued control measures if they have been in a mindset of opposing governmental regulations in general.

Further, it's no secret that the world over, the tropical regions where black and brown people predominate have much more free attitudes concerning regulations, especially compared to northern cultures, so there may be a much deeper issue at work than mere genetics or majority/minority status.

Of course, the science needs to be employed and majority brown and black nations need to be compared with majority Chinese, Indian, Caucasian, Innuit and Pacific Islander groups to get actual, meaningful data.

 

[NotHardUp1]

There is also a question of whether there is any deleterious effect from marijuana smoking, which may be not yet detected in profiling disparities by race in the pandemic in the US.

The differences of use by race are not as great as by economic class, but the two obviously have significant overlap. The percentage of minority users is higher when comparing incomes, and that projects out across a larger middle class in the white majority population vs. the minorities.

One would think there should be a growing data set of whether black and brown Americans with middle class incomes are still succumbing at higher rates than the majority, as well as checking for co-factors like obesity.

A doctoral thesis or hundreds, could be written on the subject.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3419382/

 

[Pierresro]

A closer look at U.S. deaths due to COVID-19 (The Johns Hopkins News-Letter / The Wayback Machine; November 22, 2020)

In short, this researcher looked at the number of deaths classified as covid deaths and compared to deaths of other causes in the past. When it came down to it, the total number of deaths have changed very little. The number of heart attack deaths along with other causes of deaths have decreased and covid deaths went up.

Have we been wrong this whole time? Did the people who died from covid were going to die anyway from something else?

too bad i can notshare that with my aunt uncle|and three other people i know who died of covid. in my oppinion this is not a nicwe post we all going to die in the usa it was trump who is responsible for many thousands that he told at his rallys you do not have to wear masks!!

 

[mcbrion]

^And is the trend actually racial rather than cultural or economic?

In the US, black and brown races are generally economically poorer than the majority population, which could have obvious consequences in access to health care, quality of health care, as well as ability to follow quarantine and other prophylactic recommendations.

And, culturally, minority communities here might be less prone to observe state-issued control measures if they have been in a mindset of opposing governmental regulations in general.

Further, it's no secret that the world over, the tropical regions where black and brown people predominate have much more free attitudes concerning regulations, especially compared to northern cultures, so there may be a much deeper issue at work than mere genetics or majority/minority status.

Of course, the science needs to be employed and majority brown and black nations need to be compared with majority Chinese, Indian, Caucasian, Innuit and Pacific Islander groups to get actual, meaningful data.

I suppose it could be economic, but the studies I investigated specifically pointed to the vitamin D deficiency in patients who were in the worst condition, and, therefore, hospitalized. And again, the study was complied from statistics from hospitals all over the world. I think the global angle would mitigate any need for economic studies, especially since some of the countries had a much better healthcare system than the United States. But COVID is so new, one cannot discount anything at this point in time.

 

[Dominus]

tOO BAD i CAN NOTSHARE THAT WITH MY AUNT UNCLE|AND THREE OTHER PEOPLE i KNOW WHO DIED OF COVID. IN MY OPPINION THIS IS NOT A NICWE POST WE ALL GOING TO DIE IN THE USA IT WAS TRUMP WHO IS RESPONSIBLE FOR MANY THOUSANDS THAT HE TOLD AT HIS RALLYS YOU DO NOT HAVE TO WEAR MASKS!

iS THIS A SOCK PUPPET ACCOUNT SORT OF LIKE ELROY? i'M HAVING TROUBLE FIGURING OUT YOUR POSTS.

 

[opinterph]

iS THIS A SOCK PUPPET ACCOUNT SORT OF LIKE ELROY? i'M HAVING TROUBLE FIGURING OUT YOUR POSTS.

I think it is a bit of sarcasm mixed with some blame and rebuke.

(Paraphrased)

Too bad I cannot share [the information presented in the opening post] with my aunt, uncle, and three other people I know who died of COVID. In my opinion [the post I quoted] is not a nice post. We [are] all going to die in the USA. Trump is responsible for many thousands of deaths that he told at his rallies, “you do not have to wear masks!”

 

[fabulouslyghetto]

I was fully aware that the researcher was an economist and not a biologist or doctor. I was also fully aware that the article was pulled.

Still doesn't explain the numbers that she presented and the connections that she made.

Yes, I was lurking on a right winger website

Ya don't say.