Hepatitis B vaccine experiment & AIDS

[Diego_Ryan]

Any thoughts on this theory (do you believe it), was it an accident or purposely done?

"There is no question that HIV was introduced into the U.S. male homosexual population via the gay hepatitis B vaccine experiment that took place between 1978 and 1981. My research clearly supports the outbreak of AIDS cases in Los Angeles and San Francisco shortly after the experiment began in those cities. Not surprisingly, the government has refused to release data on the number of AIDS deaths that have occurred in the large group of gay men who initially volunteered for the vaccine experiment." ---Dr Alan Cantwell

http://www.whale.to/v/hepb1.html

 

[HartfordGuy]

Could just be a coincidence.

I always did think this virus was man made. A super weapon from one of the Super powers. ie: The US or then Russia.

What better bio weapon than one that is spread sexually?

Maybe it was stolen by some government nutjob who thought "Why not infect the queers?" That'll get rid of them. Of course, he/she never considered that bisexual people or closeted married people would bring the virus home to their wives. Or that it would spread thru drug users. Then again, they probably didn't care about the drug users either. Get rid of them too! Never thinking it would be spread to that users spouse.

I sure hope it wasn't a bio-weapon gone wild. One would think the Governments who make this crap would have an anti-virus developed first before they play around with it. Maybe they do. They are waiting for more Gay people and drug users, plus half of the starving third world countries to die. Thin the herd so to speak. Cleansing it of the undesirables along the way.

 

[KnightRider]

I'm not into conspiracy theories, and this one is no different. But I did just get the Hep A & B vaccine. If anything unexplainably bad happens, I'll let you know.

 

[Negasta]

This guy is a complete imbecile.

Genetic studies have proven beyond all doubt that HIV originated from SIV that infects chimps and monkeys.

 

[Diego_Ryan]

This guy is a complete imbecile.

Genetic studies have proven beyond all doubt that HIV originated from SIV that infects chimps and monkeys.

True, I noticed he believes the virus did not originate in Africa, which is false. A doctor who had worked in African clinics in the late 1960s and early 1970s collapsed in 1976. They didn't find anything in her and they believed all she had was exhaustion. In 1977 she began to suffer from a rare pneumonia, doctors were stunned since no one died from this, but they found that her immune system had been destroyed. They believe she treated infected people without gloves. She died in Denmark in 1977. The next 4 European cases happened with people who had lived in Africa for sometime as well.

Scientists believe the virus arrived in the U.S. in 1976, with the 200th celebration of the U.S.A; a massive party took place on July 4, 1976 in which over 50 ships from all over the world arrived on New York Harbor.

However, if it's true then the HEP B theory might not be all false. If the virus was already here in 1976, it could have contaminated the HEP B vaccine. That would be an accident though.

 

[Negasta]

However, if it's true then the HEP B theory might not be all false. If the virus was already here in 1976, it could have contaminated the HEP B vaccine. That would be an accident though.

I'm a qualified geneticist and I have read quite a few papers on the genetic history of HIV.

The basic theory is that the two types of HIV (HIV-1 and HIV-2) had their origins in humans during the 1940's when people that were encroaching into the African jungles, killed and ate the undercooked meat of chimps and monkeys that were infected with SIV-1 and SIV-2 respectively.

The virus "gestated" for the next three decades while it adapted to human physiology and finally became virulent and easily transmissible in the late 70's.

The way that Hepatitis B vaccines are prepared precludes the contamination of the vaccines with HIV or SIV. HIV/SIV and Hepatitis don't even belong to the same viral group and use completely different ways to infect the cells that serve as their hosts.

This reminds me of the incident a while back when some fucktard imams in Nigeria claimed that polio vaccines being given by UNICEF were being used to infect Muslim children with HIV through a vast American/Christian conspiracy. Predictably polio broke out within weeks because of gullible parents not having their children vaccinated.

 

[Diego_Ryan]

I'm a qualified geneticist and I have read quite a few papers on the genetic history of HIV..

At age 21? Most people get a bachelor’s degree at the age of 22, a master's by age 23-24 and a PHD by the age of 26.

Did you skip years in grammar school or high school? The info you provide is good, but unless you skipped grades, I find it hard to believe that a 21 year old is a geneticist.

 

[jockboy01]

I don't buy it, but I'm not epidemiologist either. His statistics that 80 percent of new cases of aids in the US are gay males is false though from the literature that I've read. It's closer to 40.

 

[cityboy-stl]

Well, I was part of that Hepatitis B vaccine trial between 1978 and 1981 here in Saint Louis. I did in fact receive the vaccine during the trial. Today I am HIV negative. So I do not believe a word of this and I am first hand proof that HIV was not in this vaccine.
.

 

[Negasta]

At age 21? Most people get a bachelor’s degree at the age of 22, a master's by age 23-24 and a PHD by the age of 26.

Did you skip years in grammar school or high school? The info you provide is good, but unless you skipped grades, I find it hard to believe that a 21 year old is a geneticist.

I got my bachelors in Human Genetics last year at 20 and I'm currently doing my honours degree in genetics. I'm no James Watson (yet), but I can perform experiments and know most of the theory so that I can give explanations about genetic related stuff, my professors even complimented my explaining ability during one of our courses this year.

If having a PHD is the standard for being considered a geneticist, I'm still a long way off.

 

[Diego_Ryan]

I got my bachelors in Human Genetics last year at 20 and I'm currently doing my honours degree in genetics. I'm no James Watson (yet), but I can perform experiments and know most of the theory so that I can give explanations about genetic related stuff, my professors even complimented my explaining ability during one of our courses this year.

If having a PHD is the standard for being considered a geneticist, I'm still a long way off.

Things must be different where you live? So, if you know about Viruses can you explain why some scientists believe HIV is not the cause of AIDS? They don't deny that HIV and AIDS exist, but they believe HIV is a harmless virus. They claim there are two different types of retroviruses, the ones that cause no illness and the ones who invade cells but divide with the cell. Those however, cause cancer. So, some scientists find it strange that this particular retrovirus doesn't cause cancer like all other retroviruses that do cause disease. These same scientists claim that it's been hard to find a lot of HIV in an AIDS patient. They further state that HIV is not deadly because HIV-2 which is 40% identical to HIV has not caused any illness in anyone. Some of these scientists believe another virus or even bacteria might be the cause of AIDS. Others say HIV along with another virus is required. Professor Peter Duesberg, a virologist at the University of California at Berkeley claims that the reason HIV is believed to be the cause is because in the beginning of the AIDS epidemic when doctors started saying it could be a retrovirus, scientists went in search of a retrovirus and that's what they found. He compared it to HTLV-1 (another retrovirus) which many people seemed to have in their blood, yet none became sick. It was like when viruses were first discovered, after that every illness that popped up was immediately blamed on a virus, so scientist started searching for them although it would turn out that sometimes bacteria was the cause. He says the same thing occurred with AIDS, when Dr. Gallo thought the new virus could be connected with his new cancer virus (HTLV) scientists went in search of a retrovirus instead of the real cause.

 

[jockboy01]

So, if you know about Viruses can you explain why some scientists believe HIV is not the cause of AIDS?

I almost deleted this whole post. Yes, I've read about some outlying people believing that HIV does not cause AIDS. Really, if you look deep enough, you'll find somebody with some credential that will believe anything. All of the mainstream medical community agrees that HIV causes AIDS. Could this be disproved in the future... I suppose anything is possible, but I HIGHLY doubt it considering the amount of evidence that is built up.

 

[Diego_Ryan]

I almost deleted this whole post. Yes, I've read about some outlying people believing that HIV does not cause AIDS. Really, if you look deep enough, you'll find somebody with some credential that will believe anything. All of the mainstream medical community agrees that HIV causes AIDS. Could this be disproved in the future... I suppose anything is possible, but I HIGHLY doubt it considering the amount of evidence that is built up.

Why did you almost delete it? I never said I believed it, I was simply looking for his insight. I know there is great evidence for HIV being the cause, which is why I don't understand why some doctors would say it, even a noble prize winner for chemistry said it.

 

[jockboy01]

Why did you almost delete it?

Because the concept at this point has no foundation and I try to keep this forum as factual as possible.

I don't understand why some doctors would say it, even a noble prize winner for chemistry said it.

Well, people in all walks of life ultimately see what they want to see. And a chemist does not necessarily know anything about medicine... they are quite different.

 

[wraithsa]

having read his research i am reminded of the whole theory about the polio vaccine in Africa and how it was blamed too so not a huge fan of his theory - the evidence relating it to another illness in the lente subgroup of retroviruses SIV in both the sooty mangabey and the chimp and the viruses jump and adaptation to a human host is sound due to the bush meat trade which is rife.Just add international travel and bingo u have an epidemic.

The other thing to consider is the incidence of co infection described in homosexual males (or as i love reading in journals "men who have sex with men") particularly at the beginings of epidemic, as both have same routes of transmission.

So basically my thoughts on his theory is nice try but it doesnt gel for me.

 

[wraithsa]

just going through the thread again and then coughed up a fur ball when i read this

They further state that HIV is not deadly because HIV-2 which is 40% identical to HIV has not caused any illness in anyone

being that most of my medical practise has been in south africa (home sweet home) i can assure u i have treated/managed clients with both HIV 1 and HIV 2 and more recently someone who has both. Now that i am in north america i havent seen a case of HIV 2 YET - but it definately does cause disease - i just think that less about the strain is known as it was predominantly found in west africa and most research is directed at HIV 1 by the western world(the research cash cow of the world)so our experience,exposure and knowledge with it is limited.

 

[Diego_Ryan]

just going through the thread again and then coughed up a fur ball when i read this



being that most of my medical practise has been in south africa (home sweet home) i can assure u i have treated/managed clients with both HIV 1 and HIV 2 and more recently someone who has both. Now that i am in north america i havent seen a case of HIV 2 YET - but it definately does cause disease - i just think that less about the strain is known as it was predominantly found in west africa and most research is directed at HIV 1 by the western world(the research cash cow of the world)so our experience,exposure and knowledge with it is limited.

Thanks for the info