Is being BI still a trend?

[IllgetyouHackman]

I just thought being gay was the "In" thing so, here I am...

 

[Lube]

In gay circles the whole spectrum paradigm gets a lot of play. But if you actually sit and examine it, and the world we live in, it does seem that there are far more people who are actually straight, than there are the rest of us.

We like to play with the idea that there are few people at the extremes, and most people are some kind of bi - because this makes us all feel better. But really, even if you accept the spectrum idea, there's nothing that requires that there be some kind of even distribution across it.

Then there's the difference in the functional definition of bisexual - as in someone who actually dates both genders, and the theoretical definition of bisexual - as in some guy who may have had a few passing curiosities, but would never act on them.

A lot of gay/bi guys like to operate under the second definition, and say to themselves that if society allowed guy number two, he'd go for it. Maybe yes, maybe not. It's moot, in the society we live in, the second guy isn't bisexual at all, for all intents and purposes he's on the 100 percent straight end of the spectrum.

I myself think that most people are way down there on the straight end of the spectrum, call it nature/nurture, what you will, but it remains that whatever we in the gay community like to speculate about, fact shows us this is true. There are way more of them (completely straight people) than there are the rest of us.

I think the "most people are bi," kind of wishful thinking exists because we would like it to be so, because that would make us less of a minority, and less different, and all around make it less difficult to deal with the world we live in.

If you turn the question around, and ask straight people if most people are some kind of Bi, you get very different answers.

I totally agree on the bi thing. It's a lot like belief in god--it's a feel-good thing that many people want, but there's little evidence for it.

My blog entry on the Kinsey scale points out that not all biological attributes are defined by the bell curve. Sometimes there's a biological on/off switch, and I'm starting to believe that's the case with sexuality.

In terms of "way more" straights--well, it depends by what you mean by way more. Some studies have said 3-5% of people are gay, but I think it's much higher: at least 10%, and 15% wouldn't surprise me at all.

 

[Reality101]

Eradicating the word "bi", I think the majority of people would do something sexual in nature with someone of the same sex if given a situation where they felt comfortable. I don't think that this is wishful thinking (I don't care enough). I'm talking from my experiences, conversations with people, what I have read and my thoughts on the matter. If you take fear and ignorance out of the equation, a persons perspective changes pretty dramatically.

 

[Lube]

^People hang out with people who are like themselves.

 

[Reality101]

^People hang out with people who are like themselves.

Yes I have read that you have this theory, and I think it's interesting and true to an extent. However, I hang out and know a wide range of people. I don't want to hang out with people who are just like myself. I can be annoying

 

[jstanthrguy88]

I'm just saying the town whore says shes bi shes every straight guys dream cuz she will do it with another girl. She basicly gets a fuck me sign on her back. and with Emo guys its a running trend. my 13 year old sister says the boys at school kiss and say they are bi cuz it pisses off their parents. It just seems like its more of a look at me factor these days.

 

[Lube]

Yes I have read that you have this theory, and I think it's interesting and true to an extent. However, I hang out and know a wide range of people. I don't want to hang out with people who are just like myself. I can be annoying

They're more homogeneous than you think.

If you're used to jetting off to go skiing in the Alps, you're probably not going to have friends that go bowling. If you go to monster truck shows, your friends typically won't be opera fans.

 

[jstanthrguy88]

it will be really powerful when more bisexuals make it a point to say, hey, we are part of the community of GLBT, and their issues are our issues, and their concerns are our concerns.

NO NO NO I have paid my dues to this group. I have gone to lobby bills in Sacramento I have run an entire LGBTQ fundraiser and all I get are dirty looks from gays. Like what I do isnt good enough. We dont go and march with you because its nothing to be proud of we dont do all the group crap because we have to hear people snicker about us. Personaly I find the gay community a crock and I'd rather not plaster my face to the name. Thats why gay men dont like us. Not because we dont take part in their festivals and outreach programs its because we wont stoop to that level and talk the crap with them. They see us as greedy or traitors. We are "one of them". I'm sorry to be so harsh and I know this isnt every gay man but I also live where both groups are very split. Think Alabama in the 50s and blacks and whites and you basicly got it. But either way I refuse to have to hear you say if we took part. Why is it up to us? I think the gay community shoves enough in the faces of people to speak for all of us. But let it be known that I for one have like I said paid my dues and refuse to be told I dont do enough. I just could care less now.

 

[TX-Beau]

Yeah I was pretty much just neutral about your rant, until you got to this:

NO NO NO I have paid my dues to this group. I have gone to lobby bills in Sacramento I have run an entire LGBTQ fundraiser and all I get are dirty looks from gays. Like what I do isnt good enough. We dont go and march with you because its nothing to be proud of we dont do all the group crap because we have to hear people snicker about us. Personaly I find the gay community a crock and I'd rather not plaster my face to the name. Thats why gay men dont like us. Not because we dont take part in their festivals and outreach programs its because we wont stoop to that level and talk the crap with them. They see us as greedy or traitors. We are "one of them". I'm sorry to be so harsh and I know this isnt every gay man but I also live where both groups are very split. Think Alabama in the 50s and blacks and whites and you basicly got it. But either way I refuse to have to hear you say if we took part. Why is it up to us? I think the gay community shoves enough in the faces of people to speak for all of us. But let it be known that I for one have like I said paid my dues and refuse to be told I dont do enough. I just could care less now.

(emphasis mine) Yeah, maybe the problems that gay men have with you is not that you're bi, but this attitude. I know it pretty much pissed me off immediately. What exactly are we "shoving into people's faces?" If you're capable of even saying this it's a huge indication that you have a problem with the gay community for being out and unapologetic, not the other way around.

Now I don't hate Bi guys, or want them to go away, or think they're all evil, but I will take issue with people who think that we should hide, and tippy toe through our lives because of someone else's issues. No the gay community - whatever that means wherever you are doesn't speak for you, but neither are they required to pander to your wish for them to hide.

And before you indignantly insists that's not what you meant - it's what you said.

 

[DeStzjl]

^^ well i don't know about that being why there is the underlying beef between gay and bi men. honestly i kinda think it has to do with the thinking that bi men don't really love/ or are capable of loving men like gay men are. They (gay men who think like this) think its more of a sex thing, kinda like how sum girls just kiss on girl because they think its sexy. Which goes into defending that being gay isn't a choice, you know that long religious/hating blah blah nonsense we hear about. The view on bi men who do choose to be bi for sex dont help in the defense of that issue. BUT all gay n bi men arent like that just to let that be known, i think its ridiculous that bi's and gays are even bickering over this because in the end society still looks at it the same. We all Fuck Men whether out of love or lust.

 

[jstanthrguy88]

I know exactly what I mean. Did I say go back and hide? No I didnt. But all this gay pride we are here we are queer crap is a bit uncalled for. Trust me straight people havnt forgot that we are around. And nothing is wrong with my attitude till I meet some self ritious homo who thinks his attitude towards me should be based on where my dick goes. I'm not saying go and hide out or whatever but is it a must to dance down the street in nothing but pasties and glitter on? I see no point in bing proud of that fact that we like men. Think of it this way all of us are pretty much on the same side that we where born like this so why should we be proud its not like its some amazing lifestyle choice we made that made us better in some way. If you want to be proud that your a doctor then so be it. If you want to be proud that you work at Taco Bell because you think that that was your calling and you got there then so be it, but we have no reason to be proud of something we had no control over and in the big picture of life betters nobodys life it just plays out how it lives. I think bi men understand this more than gay men. As everyone knows California is in a heated debate about gay marrige and I went to support up in Sacramento and do coverage on it. When I got there I didnt see straight people out on the block saying no you cant and pointing and crap I say 2000 gay/bi people screaming curse words with small kids around at nobody, just screaming at the capital building like someone in there gave a shit. Now you tell me, as a human being not as a gay man would you see that as ok? I just think that we put ourselves outhere way to much and nobody likes things that are forced on them and with all this gay pride and give into our demands crap we are always the ones pushing. I can honestly say I dont want my kid downtown or watching tv with me and him see a bunch of half naked guys running around and me have to explane before hes old enough. I know I shouldnt say it but most gay men are crude and dont give a shit. So dont go hide in your sparkle house but tone it down. Would it be so wrong if we where suttle and not rube about our being with men. People dont like diffrent and I know it sucks but its a fact of life. Hate me all you want for how I veiw it but in the big picture of life I'm right.

 

[TX-Beau]

I know exactly what I mean. Did I say go back and hide? No I didnt. But all this gay pride we are here we are queer crap is a bit uncalled for.

Really? So how are we supposed to behave according to you? Stay away from cameras? Pretend we're just like some stereotypical straight person lest we offend with our out presence? Stay quietly among ourselves? Never mention anything gay where it might be overheard by some homophobic straight person?

That's the closet. And yes you're saying hide. Just like a thousand and one other gay/bi men with issues about themselves. Because that's what this is about.

Trust me straight people havnt forgot that we are around. And nothing is wrong with my attitude till I meet some self ritious homo who thinks his attitude towards me should be based on where my dick goes.

Nobody cares where you put your cock, but if you run around calling gay men "self righteous homos," well, that's pretty much about you, and the issues you have with yourself. It's getting pretty clear that your issues with gay men have nothing to do with bisexuality.

I'm not saying go and hide out or whatever but is it a must to dance down the street in nothing but pasties and glitter on? I see no point in bing proud of that fact that we like men.

Pride is about being who we are no matter what the opposition from people who think that our selves must be hushed up behind closed doors - like you. It's not about "liking men", it's about personal integrity and the freedom to live our lives openly, in the full light of day, unapologetically being who we are, like everyone else. And if that means that you want to saunter down the street in a fabulous four foot pastel bouffant, a sparkly sequined evening gown and five inch size fourteen stilettos, so be it. Sugar, I'm right there by your side and I've got your back. That's what pride is about.

YOU don't want to be associated with that, because YOU think the drag queen must be hidden, and YOU think that others are going to assume YOU are just like that - and you have a problem with gay men being visible. Well, there's nothing bad or shameful in being a Drag Queen, nothing at all.

Think of it this way all of us are pretty much on the same side that we where born like this so why should we be proud its not like its some amazing lifestyle choice we made that made us better in some way. If you want to be proud that your a doctor then so be it. If you want to be proud that you work at Taco Bell because you think that that was your calling and you got there then so be it, but we have no reason to be proud of something we had no control over and in the big picture of life betters nobodys life it just plays out how it lives.

We are not all on the same side, there are plenty of people completely against us, and I'm sorry to disabuse you - but you suck cock, they hate you no matter how quiet the rest of us are. There would be no protests, no pride parades, no controversy at all if these people minded their own fucking business. But they don't, and they won't.

I think bi men understand this more than gay men.

Nothing like a little condescension and arrogance from the guy who insists that gay men are condescending and arrogant.

As everyone knows California is in a heated debate about gay marrige and I went to support up in Sacramento and do coverage on it. When I got there I didnt see straight people out on the block saying no you cant and pointing and crap I say 2000 gay/bi people screaming curse words with small kids around at nobody, just screaming at the capital building like someone in there gave a shit. Now you tell me, as a human being not as a gay man would you see that as ok?

This is just like every other apocryphal horror story out there. Category X is wrong, because I saw one member of category X do Y at place Z - so obviously category X is wrong. It's an appeal to personal authority to bolster an argument. The problem is. You story has nothing to do with the question of Pride. It only demonstrates that some people may or may not have done something you think is bad - in a context that may or may not have happened in the first place.

I just think that we put ourselves outhere way to much and nobody likes things that are forced on them and with all this gay pride and give into our demands crap we are always the ones pushing.

Ahhh, if we shut up and went away, we'd get all those rights and protections that straight people have, because you know that's worked so well in the past.

I can honestly say I dont want my kid downtown or watching tv with me and him see a bunch of half naked guys running around and me have to explane before hes old enough.

DEAR GOD THE CHILDRENNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Newsflash. I don't give a damn about your kids. It's your job to raise them, your job to police them, your job to censor them.

YOUR job, nowhere does it say I am responsible for censoring my life because you're too damn lazy to deal with your own kids.

I know I shouldnt say it but most gay men are crude and dont give a shit.

But GAY men are the ones with the conceited attitude. Now I'm pretty much sure that the reason gay men don't like you has nothing whatsoever to do with anything Bisexual.

So dont go hide in your sparkle house but tone it down. Would it be so wrong if we where suttle and not rube about our being with men. People dont like diffrent and I know it sucks but its a fact of life. Hate me all you want for how I veiw it but in the big picture of life I'm right.

...Hide, be quiet, don't tell, people might get offended, their opinion is so important that we can't be seen. If we just shut up and go away, they'll forget we're here...

Fuck that. The difference between you and me, is that I don't hate you, I'm not embarrassed to be associated with you, and if some phobic ass attacks you, I'll defend you. I won't tell you to "tone" it down, I won't apologize for you, I won't tell you to pretend to be other than what you are, I won't imply that being who you are is less important that the offended sensibilities of homophobes. I won't pretend that your silence is respect, I won't tell you to shut up and go away. That's what pride is about.

Is that because you're "subtle and not rude about being with men," Fuck that too, it's in spite of that attitude, it's because I know there's nothing wrong with being Bi, or Gay, or a fabulous Drag Queen, or a twink, or a Biker bear, or any kind of gay/bi guy.

I'M not ashamed of who YOU are. I am disappointed however that you won't ever do the same for me. I refuse to tone it down, I refuse to hide, and because of that, and all the other gay men who refused to hide, and refused to tone it down, life gets better for all of us. Even you, and I don't begrudge you the help - even if you never step up to the plate and take your swing like the rest of us.

 

[IllgetyouHackman]

Sorry have to agree TX-Beau here. Also you sound as if you are way too worried about what everyone else thinks and you like to stereotype people. Just come to terms with who you are and stop worrying about putting all gay men in the same basket.

 

[jstanthrguy88]

You know I'm ok with who I am I wouldnt change myself at all. But like I said at the end of the day I'm right. Im respected because I have respect for the people around me. Try it some time I promise it will work. I really think you are misunderstanding me. I have a problem with where we represent ourselves not how. I think there are places and in front of people you dont do it. I think there is a certen amount of respect you have for people. We are a minority like it or not. One persons actions reflect on all of us. And as far as being prideful I'm all for it if you see a point in it which I did mention. However I dont agree that everyone should have to deal with it. But would it piss you off if they had straight parades? Yes it would same way black people and hispanic people would if white people had them. I think pride is bullshit and a sorry excuse to put your shit in the faces of other people. But whatever Im one person and I know my opinion means next to nothing in the big picture so why waste my breath.

 

[TX-Beau]

You know I'm ok with who I am I wouldnt change myself at all. But like I said at the end of the day I'm right. Im respected because I have respect for the people around me. Try it some time I promise it will work. I really think you are misunderstanding me. I have a problem with where we represent ourselves not how. I think there are places and in front of people you dont do it. I think there is a certen amount of respect you have for people. We are a minority like it or not. One persons actions reflect on all of us. And as far as being prideful I'm all for it if you see a point in it which I did mention. However I dont agree that everyone should have to deal with it. But would it piss you off if they had straight parades? Yes it would same way black people and hispanic people would if white people had them. I think pride is bullshit and a sorry excuse to put your shit in the faces of other people. But whatever Im one person and I know my opinion means next to nothing in the big picture so why waste my breath.

You go on telling yourself that if you have to. But in the end you wouldn't be allowed to say anything, this place would not exist, if we were so worried about the respect of bigots. We all owe our progress to gay men who were out and loud, and refused to back down. And THAT is reality. I feel very sorry for you. But that's not going to change the facts.

I have news for you, the people out there who aren't bigots, don't care, and the ones who do, don't even care if you call yourself bi, to them you're just a disgusting faggot and always will be, just like the rest of us. No matter how much you try to earn their respect. No matter how much you pander, no matter how much you try to distance yourself from the rest of us.

I don't care who else has parades. It's entirely irrelevant.

Unlike you, I'm not worried about what other people think of me. And that's what you want in the end, for all of us to be terribly worried about what people think about us. But why should that matter? Worrying about respect never got us anywhere, that is reality as well. You only have the prerogative of advocating your conditional acceptance because others refused to do what you advocate. That is reality Too. The respect you think you have only exists because other gay men wouldn't take your path. Their sacrifice allowed you to be where you are now. Their bravery gave you the opportunity to spit on them. More reality. Perhaps you think pride is bullshit, because you don't have any.

So we come to this, gay men don't like you because you're Uncle Tom, it has nothing to do with you being bi. At least that question has been answered.

 

[IllgetyouHackman]

You know I'm ok with who I am I wouldnt change myself at all. But like I said at the end of the day I'm right. Im respected because I have respect for the people around me. Try it some time I promise it will work. I really think you are misunderstanding me. I have a problem with where we represent ourselves not how. I think there are places and in front of people you dont do it. I think there is a certen amount of respect you have for people. We are a minority like it or not. One persons actions reflect on all of us. And as far as being prideful I'm all for it if you see a point in it which I did mention. However I dont agree that everyone should have to deal with it. But would it piss you off if they had straight parades? Yes it would same way black people and hispanic people would if white people had them. I think pride is bullshit and a sorry excuse to put your shit in the faces of other people. But whatever Im one person and I know my opinion means next to nothing in the big picture so why waste my breath.

You're missing the point! Why does any of that concern you? And why does Pride bother you and not Religion???? They both throw the same "shit in the faces of other people". The only reason you're going on about this is because it clearly bothers you, just get over it and accept people for being as free as they want.

PS: TX, you need to stop with all the intelligence its getting me excited!