Is it ever too soon for the truth?

[tallguy297]

Hey guys...

Well I guess the shoe is on the other foot this time... I'm coming to you for advice and I want.... no need to hear what you have to say, warts and all, so please tell it like you feel it.

I suppose the issue is this. The truth.

The truth about your past, your scars, your baggage... the stuff we all have and we know that at some level... but when is it ok to tell your bf or partner or prospective bf?

I guess for me it stems from having lived what seemed to be an enourmous lie for so long - I was late to coming out, late to willingly let myself enjoy the company of another guy, and the fact that my childhood possesed elements of pain and hurt no one need endure - that I feel this enourmous pressure to reveal all my dirty laundry way too soon.

Its like I have this belief that if I dump all the crap now, at the start, if he can sit there and deal with all this stuff... if I can be truly honest and open and not keep secrets, and he stays, if he wants to keep going, then maybe this relationship could be real.

But if I dont tell him, I feel like I'm lying. Still lying.

But surely theres a balance? Having all that stuff dumped on anyone when you are just trying to figure out how much you care for someone is just going to push them away... or is it?

My intentions are always good... I want to share, I want them to share, and in doing so let them know I dont care about their baggage, and I would do whatever it takes to make them feel at ease... Its like the worst you can tell me means we have only way to go from here. Up. Together, stronger, growing, fully trusting.

But when? Because it seems to me that not long after a guy I really care about enters my life, I have the need to Dr Phil him to death. And good intentions or not I screw it up.

How do you guys deal with it? Is it something you talk about sooner... or later?

 

[Telstra]

only you know when to tell the truth.
An appropriate/relax comfortable time to tell perhaps ....

 

[Halifaxboy8]

Everyone has a past, including the people that you know right now, the people that you are going to meet, and most importantly, you.

Take some perspective. If you met someone for a coffee date would you want them to dump their life on you in that hour? Probably not. It might make you wonder about their stability as a person. It would, at least, give you a little warning bell, and and worst, scare you off.

Sharing is part of the deal of a relationship. Its good to know who you are dealing with. Truth is important. Too much info, too soon..hmm.

Then, there is the matter of WHAT you are sharing. I'm just about willing to talk about anything that's happened in my life, and that's a lot. However, there are some things that I keep to myself. We all have our deepest, darkest secrets and that's not only normal, its ok.

FULL disclosure is something that is even rarely shared with a psych professional. Putting that onto someone's lap who may not have the tools to deal with it is a recipe for disaster.

 

[ronnie_h]

I talk about things from my past when the time has come. And strangely I always sensed and knew it when the time was there.

However, there is no one who knows everything about me and I don't expect othes to tell me everything about them. It's not lying when you keep some things about your life to yourself.

As time passes things become less important and they loose the influence on your life. At least when you allow them to. Sure, you can't forget some things, but after years and years when you think back, you will see that it becomes easier to just go ahead and not letting those thoughts or memories have an influence on your present life. They still won't become fond memories, but they are past, history... and you can't change things that happened.

If there were things I wanted to talk about to someone, I too sensed it when the person and time was right to talk about it. Try to listen to your feelings. If they are confusing, it's most probably not the right time or person.

 

[hotb0d]

what truth are we talking about here? give us an example.

As for relationship....imagine yourself to be an onion. Peel one layer at a time. No need to reveal everything and to be frank, I don't think a human being can completely 100% disclose everything about himself to another person. The only person that know you the best is yourself and no one else.

I am dating a guy and of course for us to continue our relationship...we have to tell each other our past and all that jazz. I reveal to him the good truth first, not lies, they are just good side of me. As for the dark and dirty stuff, well I tell him when the time is right (usually when a conversation veer to a certain topic).

I don't analyze him because I trust him or at least I'm willing to risk my heart and pride on this guy. If the relationship doesn't work out then so be it, I move on and take the experience with me for the next one.

 

[slnattak]

First breathe and relax. It's a universal experience that all gay men relate to. Like we're all in this together. =)

Other people can disagree if you want, but what you're talking about is objective.

Unless you grew up in an area that supported homosexuals equally, then when you grow up you're going to be bullied and felt like shit for being different. That's how it was for me. It's like the same thing where you have, everybody is like the same type of flower right, so life is good for them. And then the gays are these wild flowers, and feel different so different that they usually don't even notice the other unique flowers....and that loneliness is hard, and you have all the other flowers who look alike, try to make you conform. And you get lots of crushes on straight flowers that don't want anything to do with you.

It's just that outsider feeling that hurts. And we want to belong but it's like we see through the illusion so much- we can only sort of empower humanity as psychologists from the distance, or as writers and entertainers and artists.

I think that gay guys are from another dimension, another aspect of reality and I think we are here to return lost souls back to their original source. I think, we have an important social role as spiritual functionaries not only in our own community, but the rest of the world as well.

 

[rareboy]

Instead of a litany of hurts, slights, traumas and mistakes, use the opportunity to tell the person the good things you've learned from a particular event in your life. Too many times, these truth telling sessions are an opportunity for people to relive all the negative things in their life. Sometimes, as you note, it seems as though it is a litmus test for the other person, as in 'gee, if I can unload all this stuff and he still sticks around....he's gotta be the one.' But all they may see is someone who is damaged or badly scarred....possibly a little too needy, and they're probably thinking 'omg, if this is how intense it is at the outset, what else does this guy have in store?'

So stop that. Every guy isn't your priest and/or a counsellor.

And when you talk to people about your past and your issues, balance it with a funny story or a good memory...also make sure you balance it by talking about their past experiences at the same time. Only talk about you in the context of him. It will help you control this urge to tie him to a chair and flood him with your entire life story in one go.

It will provide reassurance that you have your shit together and aren't just looking for a vessel to pour troubles into.

And if you even think about Dr. Phil, stab yourself in the leg with a fork.

It may also be something you should speak to a psychotherapist about. They may be able to help you resolve a lot of this stuff in a way that you can just leave it behind once and for all and not even feel the need to dredge up every time you meet someone.

You see, what you see as telling the truth isn't necessarily so at all. If you actually had forgiven (particularly yourself) and forgotten all that had happened in the past, you wouldn't even think about having to spill everything. Likewise if you didn't hang onto a lot of past events as reasons/excuses to explain why you are what you are today, you won't feel the need to give someone a roadmap to your entire life at the outset.

 

[slnattak]

lol for real, Dr. Phil is a bad therapist anyway.

Just look for an equal. Not your job to a man's mother or fixer upper. But I like the 'daddies' lol.

 

[hylas]

yes, there is such a thing as too much too soon. for me, it would be a giant red flag if you "unloaded" all your issues and traumas early on. i would think that you have boundry issues, and that you are damaged goods.

(btw, if you unload all your issues and he still sticks around, that could be a red flag for you. maybe he subconsciously likes "people with issues" and will prevent you from properly dealing with them, or lose interest as soon as you have dealt with them. its a possibility, im just sayin')

why do you feel you have to "unload" all your baggage? it almost reads like you havent really dealt with a lot of it yet, like its still always on your mind. if you still "need" to talk about it, talk about it with a therapist (or a patient friend, but be carefull. you dont want to lose him by using him as a free therapist.) after a while, you will have more distance, and it will become much easier to see when the approriate time has come to reveal those things.

pretending to be heterosexual when youre not, thats living a lie. but not revealing some things from your past, like abuse and trauma, thats something different.

 

[G-Lexington]

It's easy to feel there's only two options here. Be honest and tell everything, or lie and hide everything. I'm going to go for option three.

Be open.

Let me use an analogy. (What?! Lex using an analogy?!) Let's say you've got a bunch of clothes in your closet that you're embarrassed by. The two options above would be

1. throwing open the door, showing him each and every article in there, from every angle, and saying "Isn't this horrible?"

2. locking the closet and putting a dresser in front of it.

But there's a third option. Just let him know the closet exists, and if he wants, he can look around.

You don't have to even go into much detail if you don't want. For example, when you find a good spot, you might say something like "Yeah, I've had some issue about that sort of thing. Probably from living in denial and living in the closet so long." There. You've let him know about the existence of these problems. You might be more specific if you'd like, but don't feel the need to be. If he asks questions about that - "When did you finally come out?" - you can start fleshing in details. Again, don't feel you have to immediately tell him everything. But be honest, be factual, and let him set the pace for how much is told.

This is how I was with my partner. I didn't hide anything from him. I wasn't coy about it. When we started comparing sexual histories, I told him about losing my virginity on the side of the highway. In about two sentences. He said "That sounds like a porn film." I said "Yeah, except it wasn't all that good." We laughed, and he never asked about it again. He's asked about other things in detail, but other things I thought he would want to know, he never really delved into. And I feel that's his choice. He knows I'm open, I'll tell him anything and everything, but I won't bother boring him or burdening him with stuff he has no interest in knowing about.

Lex

 

[tallguy297]

Wow guys... I'm honoured you all responded... and the way you did.

More than that I'm almost shocked at how wrong I've probably been on this issue...

However, there is no one who knows everything about me and I don't expect othes to tell me everything about them. It's not lying when you keep some things about your life to yourself.

See... this almost seems foreign to me. The thought of not sharing this stuff worries me that one day I might reveal something by accident and he immediately takes it as me not trusting him enough to tell him in the first place... but maybe thats really how life is?

As for relationship....imagine yourself to be an onion. Peel one layer at a time. No need to reveal everything and to be frank, I don't think a human being can completely 100% disclose everything about himself to another person.

I don't analyze him because I trust him or at least I'm willing to risk my heart and pride on this guy. If the relationship doesn't work out then so be it, I move on and take the experience with me for the next one.

I guess we're not talking about everything... but a small number of pivotal events that majorly change how you think and feel about a range of issues. Events that shaped who you are today, so in that sense it feels like a major thing not something to brush aside...

Instead of a litany of hurts, slights, traumas and mistakes, use the opportunity to tell the person the good things you've learned from a particular event in your life. Too many times, these truth telling sessions are an opportunity for people to relive all the negative things in their life. Sometimes, as you note, it seems as though it is a litmus test for the other person, as in 'gee, if I can unload all this stuff and he still sticks around....he's gotta be the one.' But all they may see is someone who is damaged or badly scarred....possibly a little too needy, and they're probably thinking 'omg, if this is how intense it is at the outset, what else does this guy have in store?'


And when you talk to people about your past and your issues, balance it with a funny story or a good memory...also make sure you balance it by talking about their past experiences at the same time. Only talk about you in the context of him. It will help you control this urge to tie him to a chair and flood him with your entire life story in one go.

It will provide reassurance that you have your shit together and aren't just looking for a vessel to pour troubles into.

RB, you know that you and I often go about things differently, so it means a lot that you responded here.

I think you've probably nailed it. Its maybe not so much the issue itself, because with so much of our pasts we do use it to learn and to grow and to change and be better. And I do try to show that when I talk about stuff, that its always had an upside even if thats taken a lifetime to learn, but the intensity of the discussion.

Its like....I just need to get it out there... now. And I need you to do the same... now. But weirdly for me to want his baggage out there... its meant to show him he can trust me, have faith in me... I dont need him to deal with my issues... theyre done. I always hoped him sharing his would create a bond...

You see, what you see as telling the truth isn't necessarily so at all. If you actually had forgiven (particularly yourself) and forgotten all that had happened in the past, you wouldn't even think about having to spill everything. Likewise if you didn't hang onto a lot of past events as reasons/excuses to explain why you are what you are today, you won't feel the need to give someone a roadmap to your entire life at the outset.

So I can just be me... warts and all, right now. Take me as I am and either like it or lump it?

Hmmm... see thats the attitude I take with meeting a new mate, or collegue or stranger... but rarely the one I take with someone I want in my life... and now I wonder why? Its like theres 2 versions of me... the edited, need to know basis version and the full disclosure model.

The question I need to ask I guess is why is that?

pretending to be heterosexual when youre not, thats living a lie. but not revealing some things from your past, like abuse and trauma, thats something different.

Damn, I wish I could say I agreed... but right now I cant. Maybe that will change...

It's easy to feel there's only two options here. Be honest and tell everything, or lie and hide everything. I'm going to go for option three.

Be open.

Let me use an analogy. (What?! Lex using an analogy?!) Let's say you've got a bunch of clothes in your closet that you're embarrassed by. The two options above would be

1. throwing open the door, showing him each and every article in there, from every angle, and saying "Isn't this horrible?"

2. locking the closet and putting a dresser in front of it.

But there's a third option. Just let him know the closet exists, and if he wants, he can look around.

Lex... oh screw it...

Yep, youre right... it feels like theres 2 options. And when I look back at whats just happened after reading this I realised he was using the 3rd.

But instead of understanding that, I've demanded he open the closet... no actually I broke the bloody door down to see for myself. I thought that by sharing my life I had a right to know about his.

I was wrong. Its was so disrespectful and arrogant that I'm ashamed of it. My need to be open and honest doesnt mean he feels the same.

What I've got to understand is that that doesnt mean hes lying or hiding. Its just that hes either not ready, scared or unable to share it.

Faaaarrrkkk.... why is this so clear now???? Am I really that stupid???

Again, don't feel you have to immediately tell him everything. But be honest, be factual, and let him set the pace for how much is told.

And I did neither. I spilled and forced him to do the same. It would have seemed cold and insensitive... when all I wanted was him to trust me. Something that has to be built not forced.

He's asked about other things in detail, but other things I thought he would want to know, he never really delved into. And I feel that's his choice. He knows I'm open, I'll tell him anything and everything, but I won't bother boring him or burdening him with stuff he has no interest in knowing about.

Lex

And here again is perhaps the issue in this happening too soon and too quickly. He doesnt know me fully yet... and my assuming he wants to know what I want him to know is crazy because I dont know him fully at the start either...


Damn, it really feels like I've been wrong here.

And that my need to build trust quickly is doing more harm than good.

Deep down I guess thats the real crux. Trusting in the you, as RB said, the you as you are now, is good enough. Without explanation.

Yeah, look, I had shit happen. And even though its dealt with on a day to day basis, when it comes to a relationship it bothers me. It affects areas of my confidence because theres real emotion involved. Areas that I could care less about in a one night stand or hook up. But let my heart get involved and suddenly they seem important.

So... Ive just got to learn to accept him as he is? Until he tells me what he wants to know? And hope he does the same for me?

And I've got to stop giving in to the need to share so soon?

Its not a lie to hold things back?

Its ok to never reveal aspects of your past or life? Is full disclosure something you never give to another guy... because that concepts shakes me to the core...

 

[KaraBulut]

Instead of a litany of hurts, slights, traumas and mistakes, use the opportunity to tell the person the good things you've learned from a particular event in your life. Too many times, these truth telling sessions are an opportunity for people to relive all the negative things in their life. Sometimes, as you note, it seems as though it is a litmus test for the other person, as in 'gee, if I can unload all this stuff and he still sticks around....he's gotta be the one.' But all they may see is someone who is damaged or badly scarred....possibly a little too needy, and they're probably thinking 'omg, if this is how intense it is at the outset, what else does this guy have in store?'

^^^QFT.

The truth about your past, your scars, your baggage... the stuff we all have and we know that at some level... but when is it ok to tell your bf or partner or prospective bf?

...How do you guys deal with it? Is it something you talk about sooner... or later?

These things are important to you.

Why would they be important to him?

For example, there are gay people who have very strained relationships with their family members. If you're at a point where a couple would normally be meeting each other's family, then it makes sense to explain why you haven't introduced him to your family or it makes sense to warn him about your relationship with your family before he meets them at an uncomfortable Christmas dinner.

Beyond that, your past is only important as it relates to your present with him or your future with him.

Everyone has a past. Everyone has some baggage. Being in a healthy relationship means accepting these things as a given with the understanding that there's a difference between a overnight bag and a steamer trunk. If you're lugging around a steamer trunk, it's time to downsize and start looking forward in life instead of backward.

 

[G-Lexington]

The toughest thing to come to grips with when you start a relationship with is that you're two different people. That's especially true when you hit it off really well, because you'll start deluding yourself that you're somehow exactly alike. And the fact is - you're not.

About four months after my partner and I moved in with each other, he had a birthday. That morning, I kissed him, told him "Happy birthday", said we'd go out to his favorite restaurant that evening, and left for work. Why? Because that's how we celebrated birthdays in my family. We had parties when we were little, but after the age of ten, we might get a small gift, a nice dinner, and a "happy birthday". That's it.

I came home from work to find him on the couch, drunk and crying. Why? Because I didn't care. Because in HIS family, birthdays were a HUGE deal. People would take the day off work to celebrate his birthday - seriously! And because all I did was kiss him and offer him a crappy dinner, he took that to mean I didn't care.

The thing is - neither of us were "wrong" per se. Neither of us were doing birthdays "incorrectly". We just had different viewpoints on how they should be celebrated. Once we realized this, we discussed it a bit, and we now celebrate our birthdays differently - low-key for me, big deal for him.

I think you're looking at a similar situation here. As you see it, it's a given that when a relationship really gets underway, you basically open up and "show off the dirty laundry", if you will. But to him, I'm guessing you only deal with this stuff if it comes up. Or you don't deal with it at all. That's his way. I'd say your way (although possibly a bit overboard) is probably the healthier of the two, but that doesn't mean he's doing it wrong. That's just become HIS way of doing things. It MIGHT come to pass that he decides your ways is the better, and that he should share this stuff with you. Or perhaps he won't. But that doesn't mean he's doing it wrong. He's just doing it different - his way.

I'd say just talk to him about it. Tell him, in essence, what I told you. "I hope I didn't weird you out about telling you all that stuff. It's just I've always thought that that was the way to do things - get everything out in the open right at the outset. After thinking about it some more, I realize that you simply might not feel that way, and it was unfair of me to expect, or demand, that you do the same."

Lex

 

[tallguy297]

The toughest thing to come to grips with when you start a relationship with is that you're two different people. That's especially true when you hit it off really well, because you'll start deluding yourself that you're somehow exactly alike. And the fact is - you're not.

I swear Lex, you keep getting into my head.

You are so right here. We did hit it off... and brilliantly. Its almost like in every way that mattered (from my perspective at least) we matched up. Our views on relationships, commitment, the future, friends, family... It was almost too good to be believed.

And you're right I guess. I thought we were exactly alike... and how foolish an assumption is that?

But looking back I pushed so hard cause I thought he might want me too? So I could help... but clearly I was wrong.

We didnt have time to learn about our differences... and how that makes him more attractive to me not less. He didnt have time to know that when I commit to something or promise it I mean it. He didnt have time to know that no matter what ours or his pasts I wasnt going to hurt him.

But by forgetting our differences and disrespecting his (at the time unknown) fears I did exactly that - hurt him.

I forgot we were in fact 2 different people. And this thread has opened my eyes so wide I cant believe how crazy and misguided I was here.


Add to the mix, that a friend of mine I shared dinner with last night, brought up another point... I had met another friend while I was meeting this new man in my life - he had gone to work so I had a day to kill - and so I arranged coffee with the friend. I had told him about the meeting, and even what our friendship was based on - the fact the friends parents had kicked him out of home for being gay, that he was sometimes in need of an ear and so on - but looking back now I cant help but wonder if that meeting triggered a fear in him... a fear of whether or not I really meant what I said about commitment.

Maybe its not to soon for the truth ever... maybe its too soon to start assuming your head space is the same as theirs. That your belief is the same. That while you know your level of commitment and trust, you cant know theirs so quickly. And in turn they have no basis to trust you yet...

On so many levels I've screwed this up. A guy I cared enormously about has slipped away because of my selfishness, lack of understanding or now adding in the friend thing, pure circumstance.

And yet I want to fight for him. But again thats me... my side.

I'm pretty sure from his point of view all of the signals were so wrong there will never be another chance.

 

[KaraBulut]

It seems that you're overthinking this.

The next step is to have a talk with him. Instead of putting thoughts in his head and words in his mouth, perhaps it's time just to listen?

 

[Telstra]

I swear Lex, you keep getting into my head.

You are so right here. We did hit it off... and brilliantly. Its almost like in every way that mattered (from my perspective at least) we matched up. Our views on relationships, commitment, the future, friends, family... It was almost too good to be believed.

And you're right I guess. I thought we were exactly alike... and how foolish an assumption is that?

But looking back I pushed so hard cause I thought he might want me too? So I could help... but clearly I was wrong.

We didnt have time to learn about our differences... and how that makes him more attractive to me not less. He didnt have time to know that when I commit to something or promise it I mean it. He didnt have time to know that no matter what ours or his pasts I wasnt going to hurt him.

But by forgetting our differences and disrespecting his (at the time unknown) fears I did exactly that - hurt him.

I forgot we were in fact 2 different people. And this thread has opened my eyes so wide I cant believe how crazy and misguided I was here.


Add to the mix, that a friend of mine I shared dinner with last night, brought up another point... I had met another friend while I was meeting this new man in my life - he had gone to work so I had a day to kill - and so I arranged coffee with the friend. I had told him about the meeting, and even what our friendship was based on - the fact the friends parents had kicked him out of home for being gay, that he was sometimes in need of an ear and so on - but looking back now I cant help but wonder if that meeting triggered a fear in him... a fear of whether or not I really meant what I said about commitment.

Maybe its not to soon for the truth ever... maybe its too soon to start assuming your head space is the same as theirs. That your belief is the same. That while you know your level of commitment and trust, you cant know theirs so quickly. And in turn they have no basis to trust you yet...

On so many levels I've screwed this up. A guy I cared enormously about has slipped away because of my selfishness, lack of understanding or now adding in the friend thing, pure circumstance.

And yet I want to fight for him. But again thats me... my side.

I'm pretty sure from his point of view all of the signals were so wrong there will never be another chance.

no ...
there will always be another chance. Its either him or you not want to have anther chance.