Is Positive Discrimination A Good Thing ?

[LuckysRevenge]

First, explain what you mean by "positive" discrimination.

 

[backagain]

Affirmative action, giving women and minorities a leg up.

HMM, another race threads. (skips on by)

 

[MoufOfKhaos]

Because those things are clearly positive discrimination.

 

[youfiad]

I find it to be generally hurtful in the long run as the problem is merely swept under the rug and not properly addressed. Now that I've answered the question, we can close the thread.

 

[medic1]

And were offffffff.................

 

[youfiad]

Because affirmative action doesn't address a problem, it merely pussy-foots around the problem. Why do these problems exist where whites and men predominate in certain aspects? That's where problems need to be attacked. The rest will take care of itself. I'm not convinced that granting whatever it may be to someone who is maybe less capable, only the bases of some silly quality, is the right way to go about things. I would never want to receive or given an advantage in the business world because I am gay. That's asinine. I may be denied several jobs, or be at a disadvantage for many on that basis alone. The real solution is to look at society and ask ourselves, how is this happening and how can we fix the problem at the roots? If you cut a weeds at the surface, they'll just grow back. You gotta remove the weeds to get rid of the problem.

 

[MoufOfKhaos]

You seem to think people are interested in removing the weeds, which is another problem I have with people saying affirmative action accomplishes nothing but giving jobs to someone that may be less qualified, solely because of a certain class(race and sex, since I very much doubt sexuality is coming that much into play).

You can't remove the problems at the bottom without knowing those problems have to be fixed at the top first.

 

[LuckysRevenge]

I feel like affirmative action is simplified so much by opponents to the point that it's distorted to something which it is not. And then people just throw out the baby with the bath water.. bath water which was mostly good in the first place.

There are affirmative action programs that look at MANY factors and treat them just as that: factors.
A person from a very poor region who went to public school and had parents who did not attend college (whether white or black) does not have the same advantage as someone from a middle-class or upper class neighborhood. So in one example, as a potential admissions officer at a school that employs affirmative action, I may look at these factors and maybe favor him or her over a student with identical or similar scores from a more well-to-do family and neighborhood.

 

[Willie Boy]

There is no such thing as positive discrimination. Affirmative Action was a poorly thought out plan to counter discrimination with..... yep, even MORE DISCRIMINATION. It doesn't matter what angle you view it from, it is all bad. The thought that you can end discrimination by choosing people by the color of their skin? Hello!

What companies have been too stupid to realize is that choosing employess/advancement options based on skin color only shoots themselves in the foot. The fact is it is in the companies' best interests to hire/promote the best person qualified or they aren't getting the most for their money. If you turn someone down simply because he is (or isn't) black you are actually turning down his skills. The same goes for any discriminatory situation. Think about this. You go in to buy a used pick up.... You see this shiny, new, pristine looking vehicle for $20,000 or a mud-caked, dented, older vehicle for $8,000. Which one do you consider first? Most would say (barring financial necessity) the shiny, more expensive vehicle. But think about this, the old workhorse has proven itself, the other just can't hack it. I know this is a generalized analogy. I just didn't want to type out a lot of details and have this post stretch over a couple pages.

 

[youfiad]

No, to the contrary, affirmative action addresses the problem head-on by recognizing women and minorities were historically unfairly excluded from certain professions and opportunities. The policy is an open redress of wrongs suffered, not unlike war reparations.


Unquestionably true is a bit of a stretch of the imagination in my humble opinion. That's a logical fallacy of false cause.

But anyways, I've already given this thread much more attention than it deserves.


I don't agree that the rest takes care of itself. There were generations and generations of racism and sexism at work when the affirmative action policies were enacted. Although society has improved notably in the decades that have followed, there seems to be a continuing need to promote the policies for a time longer to continue protecting access to opportunities. It is unquestionably true that many schools, employers, and government offices would not have made the gains mandated without the onus of official policy bearing down upon them.

The effective sinecures that were created in some instances are indeed rankling, but that is collateral damage at an acceptable level for many people, as the greater goal is being achieved in degrees. There ARE more minorities and women being given a chance on the whole, and it is gradually resulting in more of them being followed by others in succeeding generations.

I see this as any good doctor would. If a patient is suffering from severe pain, a good doctor would want to try to get to the bottom of what's causing the pain. A bad doctor would prescribe pain medicine and call it good. Same thing is said about Affirmative acting; make it feel like there isn't a problem doesn't mean there isn't a problem.

 

[LuckysRevenge]

Unless you have a time machine or plan to reorganize society by force you can't get to the root of the problem.

 

[Willie Boy]

Actually it can be done. All that is needed is to get fools to understand that it is in the company's best interest to hire the person with the skills best qualified for the task at hand. That strengthens the company and inevitably the income of the person doing the hiring. To choose someone based on skin color/gender is idiocy at best. Replace those fools with people of intelligence and the issue is resolved immediately.

 

[youfiad]

Actually it can be done. All that is needed is to get fools to understand that it is in the company's best interest to hire the person with the skills best qualified for the task at hand. That strengthens the company and inevitably the income of the person doing the hiring. To choose someone based on skin color/gender is idiocy at best. Replace those fools with people of intelligence and the issue is resolved immediately.

Meh I wouldn't say that means it's completely solved. You gotta give everybody the equal opportunity to succeed which is tricky, but doable.

 

[youfiad]

I would respectfully assert that you are looking at affirmative action too narrowly. It is not a policy employed in isolation. It accompanies the desegregation of our society. The line from Dr. King's speech about children playing together is in fact occurring. As our schools and churches and neighborhoods have become multi-racial, the "problem" of racism has become mitigated by degrees. We haven't come to any Utopia, nor will we, but we are enjoying more understanding than when we lived separated lives.

Minority children and girls can see people who look like them in positions of leadership and power. They know it is possible. They can shoot for it realistically and make it happen.

Interracial marriages are growing more common, and meeting less resistance from blacks and whites and Chinese alike.

Perhaps most importantly, people of various ethnic minorities are exerting cultural pride at every turn, and our society is learning how to respect differences without allowing them to become frictional.

Affirmative action isn't some plaster we use to cover up flaws in the wall -- it is one of the bricks making up the wall. Although many of us know of examples in which someone unqualified is hired, the majority of cases involved qualified people, with an extra hand given to those who ancestors got a boot in the face.

Mehh, those are all debatable points. But as I said, we've already given this thread far more than it's worth.

 

[JPGhost]

And were offffffff.................

No..definitely not. I used to think ..there must be something wrong with glass ceiling effect but now I know a new term.
I shall tune with this one, thx bendy

 

[JPGhost]

You can't remove the problems at the bottom without knowing those problems have to be fixed at the top first.

But isn't we have a black president who befriended with Beyonce and Jay Z kinds- right now?

 

[MoufOfKhaos]

But isn't we have a black president who befriended with Beyonce and Jay Z kinds- right now?

...I'm afraid to even ask you this, but, what does that have to do with anything?

 

[JPGhost]

Im not really familiar with affirmative action but my logic runs like this:

If we have our president in minority section, isn't he automatically decrease all affirmative action while more conducting equality as a whole?-- more than if we have a republican president?

Im curious, explain me? ^^

 

[JPGhost]

^
Yes. But I think if it's already a flawless system why are we still arguing about it?

Oh I see, the merits k Im out.

embarass my ass- dont have to be stingy...geez
thats why I dont like u

 

[PreTTy PeTe]

no one gives a shit about a affirmative action anymore.

we have target and walmart that will hire the minorities and pay they a shit salary.

that's all.