Mac vs PC

[andysayshi]

If I was your ethics teacher, I'm afraid you wouldn't just get an F, I'd have to spank your butt every day of the year to teach you to just man up and admit when you're wrong about something.

Promise?

RE: "When you add quotation marks to a Google search, you don't AGGREGATE the results, you RESTRICT them."

I'm not going to get into a hair splitting contest with you over the meaning of a word. As it's obvious you're just trying to use that silly spiel to distract people from the real issue. Which is the fact that you insisted there was no way to establish an overheating problem with MacBooks unless I could produce a "survey," etc.

The meanings of those words are very important in the framing of your defence, Ron. The fact that you dismiss it shows you just don't understand how to analyse data.

And that absurd contention was based on having to do Google searches on phrases without quotation marks. You even used the 18,700,000 search results for dogs that smell of cheese as "proof," deceptively leaving out the fact that without quotes, Google is bringing back millions of pages that only have the word "cheese" in them. And that when quotes are used, Google brings back zero pages for that particular phase.

Which proves perfectly why restricting data searches DOESN"T MAKE SENSE. Because there are lots of posts from people whose dogs DO smell of cheese! But your restricted search says there are none!

The bottom line is that by using quotation marks on just "Macbook overheating" -- you'll get 23,000 pages that have that exact phrase in them, which is more than enough consumer complaints to establish that Macbooks are "plagued" with overheating problems. Which clearly proves you don't need "surveys." But most of your b.s. has been centered around the absurd notion that I only had the few examples of overheating that I cited in one of my previous posts, because Google was supposedly worthless for finding more, since you'd supposedly have to search through millions of irrelevant pages.

So, if I do your restricted search on "Macbook overheating", the first link relates to pre-2008 discontinued pre-unibody polycarbonate MacBooks.

Link 2 is a 2009 MacBook. User admits his own dusty house was the problem, and removing dust from fans fixed the problem.

Link 3 is somebody asking advice about customised fan speeds - no overheating issue mentioned.

Link 4 relates to a long-discontinued 2006 (or earlier) polycarbonate MacBook which was over 3 years old.

Link 5 is simply asking advice about overheating - no overheating issue actually exists.

Even using your very specific search terms, the first five links presented either relate to long superseded Mac hardware, or don't relate to actual overheating issues at all. Of the 23,000 pages you've cited, how many of those links are as irrelevant as the first five?

And that is the crux of your problem - Google can find information, but it can't make sense of it. Your restriction of the search terms doesn't help that problem at all - it actually makes it worse.

The fact that you place your own Googling prowess above the results of professional statisticians with sample-bases in the tens of thousands is ... well, crazy. If your view was true, polling companies wouldn't exist. Political parties wouldn't have polls, they'd just Google their constituent's opinions. Car makers wouldn't collate data on their vehicle's safety stats, they'd just Google it.

I've provided you with recent statistics from a major Warranty Insurer, who says Apple portable computers are just 1.8% more prone to repair than the market leader (Asus) in their first 3 years. Statistics aggregated from over 30,000 warranty repairs in 2010.

I've provided you with the 2010 PCWorld.com user survey, with over 79,000 surveyed. PCWorld.com is the Windows-friendly flagship publication of IDG, one of the worlds largest technology information companies. The survey showed Mac users topped all brands for reliability, user satisfaction and service.

You, in turn, have shown 3 or 4 anecdotal complaints, and a joke photo of a fried egg.

RE: "One last try: show me some MEANINGFUL DATA to prove MacBook Pros overheat more than any other portable computer."

Unbelievable, you've not only insulted the intelligence of everyone following this discussion more times than I can count, you saved one of the biggest insults for last. As your whole fanatical Macfannie position has been that there was no overheating problems with MacBooks, period, because I couldn't produce a "survey."

Please quote me where I said "there was no overheating problems with MacBooks, period". I've never said it because it isn't true. But if just HALF OF ONE PERCENT of all the Macs sold last year (16 million) had overheating problems, that would be 80,000 Macs. Far more than your 23,000 search results. Add to that the fact that your search results are often spanning several years, and this tells me that overheating is NOT a major issue.

There's no doubt that some machines will have faults, and that will lead some machines to overheat. But that is true of all laptops. But the statistics clearly show that Macs are not substantially more unreliable than any other brand.

And now that I've spelled out how to instantly pull up many thousands of consumer complaints on the issue by using quotation marks, you've suddenly switched your position to, "Prove MacBook Pros overheat more than any other portable computer."

That's been my position all along. You originally said:

Unfortunately though, the same thing can't be said about the inadequately ventilated MacBook Pro laptop, which is plagued with overheating issues due to the 2 little dinky fans resulting in inadequate cooling. And of course, excessive heat greatly shortens the lifespan of circuit boards etc., which pretty much makes the extended warranty coverage mandatory for a MacBook.

All I've asked you to do is show us some data that proves this is the case. Because all the data I've shown proves you are wrong.

But in answer to this latest misleading deception, as you know, my initial post had nothing to do with Windows laptops overheating. It pertained solely to the overheating issues that have plagued MBP's. Because at a minimum price of $1,799, it's obviously a lot more of an issue than with Windows laptops that are priced much lower. And the primary motive for my post was to illustrate the importance of an extended warranty when you're investing that much money in an electronic device that has a history of generating enough heat to greatly shorten it's lifespan.

Anyway, unless you want to keep this discussion going with yet more of your deceptive b.s., I'll wrap this up with one final reminder: For a little more than the cost of the MBP extended warranty, people can get an Asus laptop that has a 15.6% malfunction rate vs 17.4% for the MBP. And the lower power is not only adequate for most people, it'll generate less damaging heat.

This just shows you haven't really looked at the data I've provided. Note that the warranty providers found that sub-$400 portable computers have a 20% higher failure rate than the average, and that premium laptops (over $1000) have the lowest failure rate, with an average of 18.1% failure over 3 years. Since ALL of Apple's laptops are within the premium category, this means that Apple's failure rate of 17.4% is better than the overall premium laptop average. Regardless of brand, laptops that cost over $1000 are more reliable than cheaper models, and very cheap models are more than twice as likely to break down.

Oh, and for the record, the MacBook range starts at US$999, with MBPs starting at $1199. (Street price would usually be 10% lower).

Plus, you won't have to worry about carrying something around in public that armed robbers and muggers will know at a glance they can sell on Craigslist for $500-$750 cash.

It's kind of funny that you're using a Mac's desirability and good resale value as a reason NOT to buy one!

 

[LT7PTLT7PT]

Hi, I'm a Mac user, but an ally of other PCs.

I know there's a big debate going on over I don't know what exactly - something to do with error incidents and price and all that fun stuff I guess. I'd just like to report my thoughts as a convert.

I like the Mac system. It's solid, easy to use and organized. Getting a Macbook (13" White, early 2008) was not originally my idea, and really through lucky happenstance, I was given this computer brand new. I already had experience with Macs from school, but every home computer I'd had was either a Dell or Toshiba or something else running Windows 95 through till XP (still love XP).

Something stuck out about this computer though. Maybe it was because it was my first Mac, or the fact that I'd never experienced their full capabilities at school, but I really felt this thing was gonna last me. Previous computers never seemed to last long, and even though I was accustomed to anti-virus/spyware and navigating Windows, it was a bit of a relief to be able to forget about those things.

And this little thing has kept me going strong for more than 3 years now. When I couldn't deal with the difficulty of running programs and executables meant for Windows, I got Windows 7. Run it on Bootcamp. Needed to store more programs, music, media, etc. (wish this thing had more HD space) so I got an external drive.

My complaints about this computer are far and in-between. I can't justify complaining about the difficulty of gaming because that was not Apple's purpose in making this computer. I can complain about the lack of internal memory, but with an external drive, it doesn't matter as much. 2 GB of RAM has never been great to me, so I may end up getting 4 GB, but that's just another easy solution.

I can complain about power cords since I think I've gone through about 3 now, but that's mostly due to unfortunate damages. My battery had been going strong until this summer, and just a week ago (when my 2nd or 3rd power cord broke) I decided to get a new battery which I'll know to treat right.

All in all, I have friends who won't touch Macs and others who praise them. I love the OS and while Macs continue to be expensive, they are getting better and more powerful. My next computer will probably be a Mac (and probably a desktop - I'd like more power, space, RAM, etc. for what I plan to be doing, which is where Macbooks and even MBPs can't quite touch the capabilities (especially upgrade capabilities) of the desktops).

I wager this Macbook will last me at least another 2 years at the rate it's been solidly working, and that amazes me because I don't get to hear about too many people whose computers last them that long with heavy use, and I do make this computer's fans work.

That's just my limited (but very satisfied) experience.

 

[menRsexii]

100% mac person here. I had a PC when I lived with my family... you don't know how many times I wanted to throw it out the window due to frustration. Never once have I had that thought about my mac

 

[theplayerking]

For me, three things that are worth top dollar: shoes, chefs knives, and laptops. Cheap shoes are uncomfortable and fall apart quickly. I love cutting vegetables with a knife that's sharp, well balanced, and feels good in the hand. If I'm visiting friends, I sometimes have to use a crappy knife and the same task becomes pure drudgery. Design and craftsmanship matter if you're going to spend a lot of time with an object. In my opinion, it's worth the extra expense.

 

[andysayshi]

^ I hear ya! Life is too short for blunt knives. Shoes are not my thing - I'm wearing 6 year old running shoes at the moment. Yet more evidence that different people like different things!

 

[theplayerking]

I understand where you're coming from, but I'd disagree that Apple has a lock on design and craftsmanship -- and where they do, it's often at the expense of usability.

don't get me wrong, I love the way my macbook air is built, but I'm very cognisant of the fact that it's also built in such a way that I can't install more ram, upgrade the hard drive, etc.

How many people actually install more RAM or upgrade hard drives? Some people imagine they would like to, but very few people actually do it, even when they have the option.

Back in the 80s, computers were thought of as "investments," rather like houses. It was all about expansion slots for future upgrades. I remember it being a major selling point even though, as now, few people actually did it. Nowadays people think of computers more like cars: you buy the model you like based on functionality, design and your budget. When a better model comes out, you trade it in. Others buy one and run it until it's obsolete or falls apart. Either way, expansion slots are not an issue. Chip design moves too quickly for savvy users to be concerned about internal upgrades and unsavvy users are too unsavvy to care.

Also, in the 80s, the inside of computers was mainly air. There was lots of room for upgrades. The Mac Book Air is so compact (engineered more like a watch than a computer) that there is no space.

 

[RonR18]

I used to be a PC person, and back then I could never understand what all of the hype was about Macs. But after I bought my first Mac, I now understand all of the hype and I have vowed to never buy a PC again if I can help it.

That sounds like yet more meaningless Apple rhetoric that dozens of Apple shills are subject to hit forums with, if Apple is in fact paying employees to engage in that type of spamming activity. So would you care to share some details concerning your adventures with Windows vs Mac in order to add a little credibility to your post? Because short soundbites are virtually useless.

 

[chrisw87]

I would be a Windows person, I prefer to build my own rigs and run Windows as I am used to it.

I abstained from trying Vista because it was a shocking OS from what I experienced, stayed with XP until recently trying Windows 7, which I am happy with.

I have nothing major against the MAC OS, just the apple hipster brigade. I can appreciate it in terms of some fields of work may prefer to use it, but where I come from it is Windows all the way, with linux for programming.

Besides, 90% of what I do is done perfectly on a regular Windows PC, it is all mainly spreadsheets and documents. Building my own rig means I can have massive levels of reserve power for extreme spreadsheets that go into many many many tabs, with alot of memory involved and I don't have to pay the $$$ for an apples name.

The one thing I was impressed with on a new mac was the display. Very nice looking, though a suitable PC display would probably impress me as much.

edit: and for the reference on stability, I have not had to juggle much on my current build, it has been powering along for 3 years now, usually operating 24-7. I built it to the bare minimums that I needed, not full of BS background programs that take up processing and memory space that I tend to find on storebought / Dell systems. I have only had to CTRL+ALT+DEL a few times in my ownership of this rig and have enjoyed it quite well.

My experiences with MAC were also back in the day when they first became colorful and "look at me". I found them shockingly unreliable at highschool and a bastard to do any work of real importance on. I am sure they are better now, but back then they created a real aura of BS to me.

 

[TheOscar]

Well I can assure you that I don't work for Apple. The biggest difference between a PC and a Mac is that Macs seem to have less "glitches" in them. Rarely, almost never in fact, do you have to "force quit" a program on a Mac. Only once in over a year have I had a program "force quit" on me. Back when I had my PC, I was having to "force quit" at least once a week. If you go out and use a Mac, you will see the deficiencies in a PC pretty quickly. It's hard to explain, I guess you just have to experience it.

It's very true. Not to mention that I notice PCs are much slower, too.
I used to own a PC and it caused me so many headaches and towards the end it got a virus and I went to get it fixed and then it worked for like one week after that. Then it blew up. XD Not literally, but it sort of just stopped completely working accurately.

I have had my MacBook Pro for a while now and not once have I gotten a headache from it. It's so much faster and less clunkier and much more simple. Plus, virus-free since I first got it. ^.^
And I promise you I am not an Apple employee! If I did, I'd actually have AT&T. XD