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Male to female to non-binary to male again

Latimer

Latimer

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A first person account by a man who writes:
"It was all a sham."

"LGBT organizations helping me screw up my life became a common thread."

"The truth is that my sex change...was a medical and scientific fraud."

"At every step doctors, judges and advisory groups indulged my fiction."
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The NYT printed his opinion piece when he wrote of his "non-binary" nature. They should have printed this follow-up as well, but the author has been shunned by the "progressive" media that previously celebrated him.

https://www.dailysignal.com/2019/03/10/i-was-americas-first-non-binary-person-it-was-all-a-sham/
 
Although I find the story interesting and wish Jamie Shute well in his life, I question the news source. It seems to be a "conservative" website that I fear is mere Trumpism.

With this worldview, banning transgender people from the military seems right. It isn't.

Other transexual people have had quite a different journey. They choose to express their chosen gender identity in a way that, instead of blurring other personal or mental issues, clears difficulties by basing a life on honesty.

Perhaps people and therapists should ask more questions of trans-curious people. The answers might be surprising, true, and may stop mistakes. Or just prove someone is following their right path.

But I CANNOT accept workplace discrimination against transgender people. It's mean-spirited.
 
...When did Oregon come to symbol America? Oregon is not the first state I think of.

On the other hand, that article is an excellent example of why I think hrt and such should be on an informed consent basis. You can't really catch manipulative liars who're working under their own delusions and I dislike being penalized for someone else's (I'd call it willful) stupidity on what transition actually accomplishes. Apparently he paid attention to nothing.

What it looks like is someone wrote an article and during the article he still insists that his actions are not his own responsibility. He was responsible for putting himself in the correct form of therapy. Just as with all other medical decisions.

Sounds like that one guy who got a pa and then complained that the fistula wouldn't close because he'd enlarged the gauge while insisting that he'd actually done the pertinent research combined with thought beforehand.

-Ooh, wait, maybe 'Oregon Trail', I hear that game could prolly pass muster as a general 'ohfuck' symbol.
 
Is this singular experience supposed to somehow imply generalization here?

Do we know if the author is generally mentally stable? When someone says that all their confusion was 'in their head' and then blames everyone else for their confusion, I am suspecting that there's more going on her.

I would note that the source of this 'article' loses much of their credibility in giving a platform to this writer with this. It smacks of fakery.

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I don't ever begin to profess to fully understand how others might feel. I at times have wanted to be a woman, it never lasts. But as with all other aspects of my sexuality I find myself fluid. Where ever I am at for the day I try to enjoy the ride. I was surprised a few weeks ago when I found a deep desire to view naked women in porn instead of men. I wonder how many other men find themselves wanting to be women for a while or find that their sexual attractions are all over the charts?
 
rareboy said:
Is this singular experience supposed to somehow imply generalization here?

Do we know if the author is generally mentally stable? When someone says that all their confusion was 'in their head' and then blames everyone else for their confusion, I am suspecting that there's more going on her.
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Imply a generalization? Oh no, the articles generally come right out and state it. Bitter individuals all too eager to blame their own mistakes on everyone else.

'When someone says that all their confusion was 'in their head' and then blames everyone else for their confusion, I am suspecting that there's more going on here' - to my mind, that's called lieing. Doesn't matter that it isn't lieing to others - lieing to yourself about the firmness of your beliefs in an effort to run away from your pain and then blaming others still fits the description. Since he could not have been in a permanently delusional mental state for how many years there had to have been a lot of liein' going on.

"After having watched pornography for years while in the Army and being married to a woman who resisted my demands to become the ideal female -"

(Honestly, you'd think he would've spotted an issue when he said his wife resisted his demands to become the perfect woman. I mean good lord. And blaming your behavior on porn is, uh. I mean really.)

Looks more like a straight guy fell into sexism and actively ran away from internal auditing. Then he continued not doing any internal auditing (and that's pretty fucking difficult not to do during puberty, you're presented with the results 24/7/365). I'd have more empathy if he weren't attempting to shit on me to save his self-esteem hit about, horror of horrors, admitting he made a mistake.
 
Though, let's say for the sake of 'sanity' people continue to be heavily screened with multiple hoop-jumpings mandated. Even more restriction is unlikely to help when what you're trying to screen for is a fetishist with mental issues who has admitted to both strong arming by job threat and viciously cutting out anyone who asked him to consider the situation as it stood. When such people don't run into 'easy loopholes', they make them. The whole transition thing could be part of mental illness, but I'm more inclined to think he's just avoiding that the biggest mistake of his life (so far) is of his own creation going by the way he's framed literally everything. (Though I do believe he's mentally ill, I'm just incredibly dubious it has anything at all to do with his 'gender journey') He could certainly stand to be in therapy now, that kind've avoidance isn't healthy. Apoplexy by sixty, not as fit as Walter Heyer.

In order for a therapist to be helpful in gendered matters, you have to tell the truth as you know it, not the one he's been weaving together to avoid his own problems. If you're avoiding things then you're not going to tell them to a therapist, you're just going to say what you know they want to hear, get your papers and off you go.

Eventually people will have to take responsibility for themselves.
 
Huh so this is the latest be from planet crackpot! Simple got a penis you're a guy got a vagina you're a broad! Male that wants a vagina trans man female that wants a penis trans female. This shit where you dont "identify" with either is just bullshit biology says otherwise!
 
ShadowCat said:
Huh so this is the latest be from planet crackpot! Simple got a penis you're a guy got a vagina you're a broad! Male that wants a vagina trans man female that wants a penis trans female. This shit where you dont "identify" with either is just bullshit biology says otherwise!
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This really doesn't seem to try and meet the concept where it is at. Non-binary largely isn't a claim about biology. It is a claim of sex-roles, 'gender' presentation, and social negotiation of how we interact with those. Though there are some people that go through 'gender neutralization' which involves procedures, such as temporary use of HRT to make the typical trademarks associated with a given sex more ambiguous.

You've also mixed up the standard terms associated with transgender persons. You'd flip trans man and trans female. Though it's more complicated than the explanations you've given.
 
rareboy said:
I would note that the source of this 'article' loses much of their credibility in giving a platform to this writer with this. It smacks of fakery.
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[Text: Removed]

Here's the NYT article that Mr. Shupe wrote and to which Mr. Shupe refers in his later piece. I remember reading it when it was first published.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/opinion/transgender-today/stories/jamie-shupe

An NBC news piece regarding his non-binary status:

https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc...te-add-third-gender-driver-s-licenses-n772891
 
The story is published in an obviously anti-lgbtq right wing site with a naked agenda.

But I ask the question of you again.

Is this individual's story supposed to indicate some kind of generalization about non-binary people?

What about all the rest of the people profiled in the NYT article who aren't flipping back and forth?

I suspect that this person has a very fluid sexual identity....but is constantly struggling with where he is on the spectrum at any one time. Next year, we could be reading about his struggle to re-adjust to wanting to live as a woman again.

As has been pointed out...he seems to be desperate to blame everything and everyone. What he probably really needs is counselling to make him love himself no matter what he identifies as.
 
rareboy said:
I suspect that this person has a very fluid sexual identity....but is constantly struggling with where he is on the spectrum at any one time. Next year, we could be reading about his struggle to re-adjust to wanting to live as a woman again.

As has been pointed out...he seems to be desperate to blame everything and everyone. What he probably really needs is counselling to make him love himself no matter what he identifies as.
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Yeah. Would help if he hadn't clung to notions of behavior and roles when he was deciding what physicality meant to him though. You'd think when he realized gendered roles are arbitrary bolstered by the public he would've stopped to ponder the only thing left, but no. Boggles the mind.

I suspect a fluid sexual identity means not-much when hrt only shifts physicality, it isn't like it creates specificly gendered feelings or emotional states by its use. There's also that it's permanent, for a given value. Sexuality may be fluid ...but the packaging is pretty static, so most people would probably have issues of 'mental fineness' (tho not all, and more power to them says I) with physical characteristics outside of their particularly personally-imagined settings.

It's just... he was supposed to be paying attention to internal processing and he knows it. I know he knows it. He had one job and he failed miserably at it. Looks like he didn't even try, just hopped from one 'maybe this'll work with no honest introspection' to the next. And he's been doing an autobiography, which (perhaps mysteriously) also contains little-to-no traces of self examination. Grates being blamed for other's ridiculous decision making processes.

(Tho apparently he was a bit of a garbage fire on the trans boards (did some spelunking yesterday, I don't visit much these days - they're mostly just for new people) so I'd like to know where he's getting his insistence that no one questioned him).
 
^ I suspect we are dealing with a singular case where the person has other psycho-socialization issues all the way back to childhood.

But I think you capture the situation beautifully.
 
SeaCore said:
... there are some people that go through 'gender neutralization' which involves procedures, such as temporary use of HRT to make the typical trademarks associated with a given sex more ambiguous....
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Do you know people who go through this?

SeaCore said:
...You've also mixed up the standard terms associated with transgender persons. . .
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Who sets these standards?
 
Thad1527 said:
Although I find the story interesting and wish Jamie Shute well in his life, I question the news source. It seems to be a "conservative" website that I fear is mere Trumpism.
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BINGO

Thad1527 said:
But I CANNOT accept workplace discrimination against transgender people. It's mean-spirited.
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anti-trans seems to be the hot topic upon a cursory glance of HT.
 
Meanwhile, back in the land of the unwritten constitution, a woman is being investigated by the police for a hate crime after she used the word for the actual biological sex of a youngster, that is, "boy", to describe him rather than the word for the sex he currently believes himself to be, that is, "girl".

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/03/19/devout-catholic-interviewed-police-trans-twitter-row/

But not without pushback:

"
But the involvement of the police is likely to reignite the debate around the use of resources, at a time when officers are struggling to cope with high levels of violent crime and knife violence. Sara Thornton, who has just stepped down as the head of the National Police Chief's Council, recently said that forces needed to get back to core policing rather than focusing on issues such as hate crime.
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"

Question: how is this hate crime?
 
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