Married friend

[risemix]

Typically these stories start off a little different. My friend (who I will obviously not name) is not like most of these closet cases who marry women because they're sexually confused and think committing will change them. No, he did it because he was vying for his unnaturally neglectful father's acceptance. When I approached him in 9th grade about his sexuality, he quickly changed the subject. A few years later, he comes back into my field of vision and life; this time, with a girl by his side. We're both 23, and met when we were 14.

He's joined the army now and he's very good looking. She is... not. She's a nice woman and I'm very respectful of her and of their relationship. I still kind of liked him, though... there was something more to it. He brought her to my house, and we went to dinner, the three of us. It was very awkward, because she knew all about me, I guess.

I soon found out that he still is attracted toward me. He made an advance at me that night, and I turned him down; he had a girlfriend. I was seeing someone. I'm really not into wrecking relationships. It just isn't me.

For five years, he didn't speak to me. A few days ago, he came into town. Now he'd married the girl; he came into my house. We sat on the couch and talked for a while... and there was this look. Like something had been left unsaid.

We spoke very cryptically about his marriage. I learned he doesn't love her. He is attracted to women, but doesn't love this girl. He married her to impress his father. As he was telling me the story, he hugged me. And then he started crying. He told me he missed me, and that I was the one he wanted.

I think a lot of people like to assume that when you have this kind of power over a married man, it feels good. It's a common fantasy, taking a man and "converting" him, or if he's already gay, there's something taboo about it still. I felt no such power. I felt kind powerless, actually, because I know there's nothing I can do to help him. I also felt a complicated kind of sadness and uncertainty. If he wants to divorce his wife and flee to me, what does that make me? A homewrecker? I admit I'm troubled by the thought, since I have no ill will toward the girl.

A few weeks have passed now and we speak on the phone. He's become more brave about it, and I'm worried, because I don't want any trouble, despite having very strong feelings for him. He's a good soul who got wrapped up in something too big for him. And honestly, I'm not sure I'm ready to be wrapped up in it. As terrible as this may sound, I have feelings for him but have no such liking for his baggage, although as a friend I'd be willing to help him cope.

I know I haven't really asked a question, or asked for advice per se; there are really only two roads to travel here and I know well what they are. I'm never above words of wisdom and an e-shoulder to e-cry on, though.

 

[risemix]

Why do I have the feeling you are going to end up sleeping with him (repeatedly) and then be asking us how this happened.

He's turning to you to give him an out from his marriage. Don't get near this nutjob with a 10 foot pole. I hope I'm wrong about your intentions, I really do.

No way. Not at all.

He's not a nutjob. He's just a victim of a really bad parenting situation, and sexual confusion, I think.

But no, I'm not going to sleep with him. I couldn't if I wanted to. He lives pretty far away. I think this came off badly. I'm looking mostly for a way to help him because I like him, but I don't think it exists because I'm not technically an impartial party... and it sucks.

The reason I gave a lot of details without asking any questions is because I wanted to hear peoples' gut reactions to all the thoughts I had on the subject, though, so I'm glad you were honest with me. Thanks.

If it helps, I'm 23 and I've had sex with two people. One I was dating for a while and the other I regret. I'm not religious or prude, I just prefer something more where sex is involved. I'm not going to sleep with him.

 

[8tomtoms8]

I don't think there is much you can do for him. If he wants to experiment with guys, HE needs to talk to his wife about it. The two of them need to come to some kind of decision. If, he's like most closet cases, he wants all the societal benefits of being "straight" and married but wants to mess around on the side as well. The last thing you want to do is get tangled up in that mess. Often, after the novelty of guy to guy sex wears off, they go back to their wife anyway which just leaves you used and humiliated.
The other thing to remember is if he's willing to cheat on his WIFE with you, he'll have even less trouble cheating on you with someone else.

Find yourself a guy who is more like you (knows who he is), who you can really develope a future with.

 

[KaraBulut]

I know I haven't really asked a question, or asked for advice per se; there are really only two roads to travel here and I know well what they are. I'm never above words of wisdom and an e-shoulder to e-cry on, though.

It's true. You really haven't asked for advice here. It just sounds like you mostly want to get this off your chest?

I guess my issue with your original post was that you were/are making excuses for him. You are blaming his parents, his wife, whatever.

This is harsh but it's true.

In your efforts to be compassionate and understanding, you're making excuses for him. It's 2009, not 1959. These are choices that he's made. Some day he will wake up and realize that he's squandered much of his life on a loveless marriage, trying to be something that he's not.

But in the meantime, you have to move on.

I know there's nothing I can do to help him. I also felt a complicated kind of sadness and uncertainty. If he wants to divorce his wife and flee to me, what does that make me?

Don't wait to find out.

Get on with your life so that there's not two guys who wake up and realize that they have both squandered their life...

 

[Seasoned]

I was one of those "nut jobs" and believe me no one can possibly get into the head of another. We'd like to think that everyone sees things they way we do, but obviously that is not the case. Personality coupled with environment will determine all kinds of outcomes. The guy is coping the best he can. My hope is that he will realize what is best for him and leave his marriage, not to fly to you, but to begin living life as an independent gay man.

 

[bankside]

He came to this decision without you, even though it involves you. You haven't done anything to manipulate his feelings.

If he has decided he does not love her, it is time for him to divorce. At the very least it will give her an opportunity to find someone who does love her. At the moment he is just blocking her potential happiness.

It is touching that he would come out of the blue and say he has feelings for you, but he has to make a clean finish to his current relationship. It would be best if you said that you really enjoy his company, but if he has feelings for you he should not see you again until things are settled with the woman who is still his wife.

If he is single and living on his own in 8 months, it would be a good time to give you a call. But if he is interested in asking you out, he has a lot to take care of first. And "helping him through his divorce" is almost the worst possible way to start a new relationship, so he needs to take care of that on his own.

Tell him you're sorry it isn't working out in his marriage, and that it wouldn't be appropriate for you to spend more time with him now given his feelings, but once the dust settles you'd love it if he gave you a call. (assuming you would).

 

[G-Lexington]

Well, it sort of seems like you're only presenting two options here. Him stuck in a loveless marriage, or him dithcing her and hooking up with you. As others have hinted at, there's a third option. He divorces his wife, comes out...and DOESN'T hook up with you. And if you simply want to help him, I think that's the advice you need to give him. "If you really think you're gay, then perhaps it's best if you end the marriage and start living as a gay man. I'm not interested in getting involved with you, but I'd be happy to help you through the coming-out part."

Lex

 

[TX-Beau]

Well if you know your options the only thing left is decide.

If you think you can be his friend and not sleep with him – consciously or not I would bet that in his head that’s on the agenda, then be his friend, but that’s all.

Do not let him think that if he leaves his wife that he can run to you, you don’t want to be any kind of factor in the implosion of his relationships, and she’ll most likely end up allotting you a share of the blame, if he goes straight from her to you.

Most likely he’s gonna end up cheating on her, if he hasn’t already. Remember, he’s been keeping secrets from everyone, like all closet cases do, and you have no guarantee that he’s not keeping them from you as well.

Right now, you’re the only emotional outlet he has. However, I’ve never seen a closet case come out because of someone else. People aren’t in the closet because they just haven’t found the right guy. Even if he leaves her, that doesn’t mean he’s gonna want to be your boyfriend. It doesn’t mean he wants to come out, it just frees him to go pursue other guys. You may find yourself odd man out if he follows the typical pattern.

Even if he comes out, there’s still the possibility that coming out will end your usefulness to him.

Sounds harsh I know, and probably he isn’t consciously trying to play you, but think about it, he deliberately used her to lie to someone else. He’s still using her. She’s a prop, a beard, where is his concern for her feelings? His grand lie is more important to him than her happiness and welfare. Why should you be any different? I have no respect for gay men who wreck other lives to defend their lie.

He says he wants you now, but is it really you he’s after, or is he making use of his only obtainable option? He can cry you a river over his situation, but don't give the benefit of the doubt until there is no more collateral damage.

If he starts to be a stand up guy, let's the wife go, comes out, or at least makes progress, then you can sympathize and stand by him.

 

[BlueDevil]

I had a friend once that was in a similar situation to your married friend. He married young to make his family happy and I think deep down thought it might make his sexuality clearer. course it didn't and he was as he put it "looking but not touching". then he had twins and finally decided to come to terms with his sexuality and leave his wife for someone he met online.

The bottom line was that his wife was hurt, his kids were hurt, and the guy left for never could really bond with him because he thought that he was just being used as an esacpe.

I would say to give him support but be careful not to get too involved even though he is a good friend. Don't be his escape because if you get too caught up in it, you'll be hurt, too.

 

[risemix]

All great words of advice. Thanks.

Do not let him think that if he leaves his wife that he can run to you, you don’t want to be any kind of factor in the implosion of his relationships, and she’ll most likely end up allotting you a share of the blame, if he goes straight from her to you.

I'm way ahead of you. This is a huge concern of mine, if not the primary concern as selfish as it might come off sounding.

She's a nice woman and deserves better than this situation, in my opinion. No matter what, I think she'll end up getting hurt. I do not want to be caught up in that, if you know what I mean.

Again, thanks for the kind words everyone and not thinking I'm terrible (was a little worried about that).

 

[Lube]

Well, I don't think (yet) he's the terrible person other people have made him out to be.

The deciding point for me would be whether he gets a divorce or not. If he doesn't get a divorce, keep your distance! As others have said, he will use her as his beard, and that's an awful life for all 3 of you.

However, if he does move out and file for divorce, I don't see what the problem is. You're not some hookup he met on the Internet. You guys have a long history together. He genuinely cares about you and is interested sexually.

Who cares if she hates you? You didn't convert him or anything. Sheesh.

 

[CudDULL]

If you had feelings for him in the first place and you know he tried to advance towards you why didn't you stay close to him for those five years. There would have probably been a different outcome from him marrying that chick. Now its too late, I would have rather broken up their relationship instead of their marriage. Now both of you are going to be unhappy, more him than you I guess.

This is a sad story but nothing it going to change unless bold decisions are made and obviously the hole has been dug deep enough to hurt people.

I'm not blaming or critizing you for the sitaution you're both in, that wouldn't be fair, but if only you would have indirectly or directly helped him with coming comfortable with his sexuality.

 

[risemix]

If you had feelings for him in the first place and you know he tried to advance towards you why didn't you stay close to him for those five years. There would have probably been a different outcome from him marrying that chick. Now its too late, I would have rather broken up their relationship instead of their marriage. Now both of you are going to be unhappy, more him than you I guess.

This is a sad story but nothing it going to change unless bold decisions are made and obviously the hole has been dug deep enough to hurt people.

I'm not blaming or critizing you for the sitaution you're both in, that wouldn't be fair, but if only you would have indirectly or directly helped him with coming comfortable with his sexuality.

I think a lot of people forget sometimes how young 22 (presumably when he got married, I don't know exacty when) still is and how difficult homosexuality is on some people due to pressure from their families and pressure from their friends. I am very lucky to have a family that was really pretty "whatever" about me being gay when I was 18 and told them. Some people aren't as lucky or even just have their own hangups. Everyone is different.

Had my friend and I gotten together when we first decided we had feelings for each other, things may have been a little less complicated, but we are young and we're stupid and sometimes things don't turn out how they should as a result of that. For the record, though, I am not in the closet. I also don't respond well to being hidden, as I've tried to do that with a guy who was in the closet once before. If I am to be in a relationship, I feel that I should be able to at some point meet the parents as their boyfriend and not as their friend from, uh, where exactly did you meet again? And why are you over here so much? And why do you sleep in his room? These questions seem insane, but they are the kinds of things I've dealt with before when my first serious boyfriend was in the closet and his parents didn't know me as well as they should have.

The point of this diatribe is that there were a lot of reasons why I decided that it wasn't a great idea five years ago, and his girlfriend was really the tip of the iceberg. I think it was unintelligent of me to deal with it that way, or maybe just unwise, but I can't take it back now.

Well, I don't think (yet) he's the terrible person other people have made him out to be.

The deciding point for me would be whether he gets a divorce or not. If he doesn't get a divorce, keep your distance! As others have said, he will use her as his beard, and that's an awful life for all 3 of you.

However, if he does move out and file for divorce, I don't see what the problem is. You're not some hookup he met on the Internet. You guys have a long history together. He genuinely cares about you and is interested sexually.

Who cares if she hates you? You didn't convert him or anything. Sheesh.

This might be somewhat beyond the scope of this thread, but humans are really complex and sometimes the struggles we have only make sense to us. In my friend's case, I do feel people have been as easy on him as I could expect given that they don't know him the way I (think) I do, so I'm not mad about it. All you guys know is that he's some asshole who married a woman he doesn't love and wants to break it off now. If I didn't know him, I'd be making the same sorts of assumptions I see here. But that's actually good for me, because it could be that I'm just too close to the issue which is why I posted here in the first place.

 

[spencer]

just make it clear to him that he shouldn't stay married with someone he doesn't love and that you don't intend on being with him if he does get out. and especially tell him not to end it because of him.

 

[KaraBulut]

I think a lot of people forget sometimes how young 22 (presumably when he got married, I don't know exacty when) still is and how difficult homosexuality is on some people due to pressure from their families and pressure from their friends.

Your heart is in the right place but you're making excuses for him.

Your friend didn't go into this because he was 22 or because he didn't want to be gay or because he didn't know that there were other options. He went into it because of what my generation used to call [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Best-Little-Boy-World/dp/0345381769/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1251755413&sr=8-1"]The Best Little Boy in the World[/ame] syndrome.

He's got a mess on his hands. And it's going to cause people to get hurt.

... because it could be that I'm just too close to the issue which is why I posted here in the first place.

Forty years ago, the road that you've taken would have been considered the rougher path. Now, it's clear that your decision to live your life as an openly gay man- while not pleasant at first- is the more honest way to go.

You're correct that you're too close to this. And you risk being hurt when your friend gets caught- and he will get caught eventually.

 

[TX-Beau]

Well, I don't think (yet) he's the terrible person other people have made him out to be....

Who cares if she hates you? You didn't convert him or anything. Sheesh.

OK, when I was in the closet I was a raging asshole. Why, I was pissed the fuck off, I was gay, I knew it, and I didn't want to be gay. I was pissed of at the world because I didn't think it was fair that I got no say in the matter.

The fact that I was in a closet I didn't choose, didn't make me a nice person in an unfortunate situation, it just meant that I was a raging asshole in the closet. There is no excuse for the damage I did while being a raging asshole in the closet. It's why I don't have any respect for gay men who take other people down with them. I don't respect the person I was when in that situation. I knew I was wrong, I didn't care.

We as gay men tend to have a default sympathy for the gay guy; and that's a good thing if he's being fired or bashed, but it isn't a good thing when it leads us to ignore serious behavioral problems on the part of the gay guy.

At this point in this guy's life what he's doing is incredibly destructive to all involved - even himself, it needs to be described in the starkest terms. He's a user who's going to crush this woman. Sooner or later, in one way or another. There isn't even any way to avoid it, all you can do is wait for the crash, and this isn't going to be getting drunk and picking fights - he's going to crush her in a way that's incredibly cruel. All of her hopes and dreams, her happily ever after, her domestic security, will be exposed as empty lies he's told her. Before we start justifying and minimizing what he's doing, let's ask what we think that's gonna do to her?

This guy followed another guy home and made a move with the intention of committing adultery; after telling said guy that he doesn't love his wife, that he only married her as a beard. I'm sure that felt very cathartic for him, but what position did it put the OP in, what does that mean for his wife?

People can change, if they want to, and it's certainly possible that somewhere down the line he'll be a different guy, but he's going to have to clean this mess up first. The only way he's ever going to change is if he comes to terms with himself, and deals with the damage he's done. Until then he will not be a nice person in an unfortunate situation. Nice people care about what they do to others.

If the OP thinks he can help without getting entangled, more power to him, but ultimately this guy made the decisions that created this mess, and he's going to have to make the decision to get himself out.

 

[TX-Beau]

Your heart is in the right place but you're making excuses for him.

Your friend didn't go into this because he was 22 or because he didn't want to be gay or because he didn't know that there were other options. He went into it because of what my generation used to call The Best Little Boy in the World syndrome.

He's got a mess on his hands. And it's going to cause people to get hurt.

beat me to it and far less verbose.

...Damn foiled again... (grin)

 

[nautiboyjeff]

Risemix - I kind of have a different perspective on this. I was married too - so I can tell you from experience that he should leave his wife as soon as possible for HER sake. Let her go out and find another man, don't drag her along, because I can tell you from the description you gave, his marriage is not going to make it because of the lack of love AND/OR the gay thing - take your pick.

As far as you getting involved, I don't think it's such a bad thing. Your odds of having a really successful relationship are diminished because you have a LOT to deal with. But I can also tell you - from experience - coming out with a friend/lover/confidant was the only way for me. By having my boyfriend there, who's been with me for 12 years, was the security I needed to tell my parents. I did tell my wife before I met my bf, but I had another relationship with a man that made me realize that I would eventually fall for another man. I told my parents a couple of years after being with my bf and it was a very good experience, because IF they rejected me, I knew I had someone who loved me no matter what. Also, my desire to tell my parents became overwhelming because I wanted them to know my bf.

If he has the family problems, he's not going to come screaming out of the closet - he is already fearful of his family - the only people he knows that love him no matter what. YOU may be the other person he needs or wants to make this leap. It's very complicated and if you start down this path with him, just know there are a ton of issues but if he leaves his wife (he doesn't have to tell her why) and then starts something with you, I don't think that's "home wrecking". Tell him you will be there for him, but before you guys start up something, make it clear he needs to end that relationship somehow.

After you guys get a solid foundation together, then perhaps coming out can be an option for him.

I guess I am just not a militant fag - I am not confrontational and it's been a fairly pleasant experience for me.

If you have feelings for him and he has feelings for you - carpe diem - because true love doesn't happen too many times in your life - you shouldn't feel like there's some moral superiority - just love your friend and help him through this - if it evolves into a HEALTHY relationship then embrace it!

Good luck.

 

[texan_slant]

I give you kudos for being able to delineate and compartmentalize your feelings and situation. Sorry if I am just repeating what everyone else said; iI didn't bother reading any of the other responses.

Remember that he is still processing his feelings and sexuality, so in essence, you're that outlet, stabilizer, and window of opportunity for him - since he has had feelings for you, and hasn't ventured out into the gay community much (if at all), assumably, you are that ray of hope, yet his straight world come crashing down and you end up being an "unintentional, yet negative" representation of his process.

Basically, it's still unknown where/if/when there is ever hope for a relationship with him, so I wouldn't necessarily hope for that either, cuz what if it doesn't happen?

Your safest bet would be to be there as a friend, and don't cross that boundary into lover - at least not yet. Most especially, try not to give too much more as a friend than you already have, cuz clearly, it might be painful for you with all of your own feelings muddled up inside. That, coupled with the aforementioned risks, is just a lanslide waiting to happen.

Just be cautious, be there as a friend, and let your friend work through his marriage. If you both love each other and it's strong enough to make it through the last few years and the current road bump, then you are truly meant for one another.

 

[KaraBulut]

beat me to it and far less verbose.

...Damn foiled again... (grin)

Nah- in cases like this where the OP is doing the right thing for other people but not the right thing for himself, it never hurts to have the message repeated.