No more Indians!!

[mike0501]

Today a small university here in my state officially changed its mascot from the "Red Men" to the "River Hawks" to conform to NCAA compliance. What a crock of crap! At least North Dakota has one university president with enough sack to stand up to the establishment's undesired and unrequested crusade of 'Political Correctness' to 'defend' a people who neither need nor want their defense. Check this out:

http://www.universityrelations.und.edu/logoappeal/openletter_6-07-06.html

 

[mike_n_herrin]

yeah i don't know i have mixed feelings on this. "we" feel the need to change school mascots but yet we still allow the rebel flag to fly over state capitals... seems dumb to me.

 

[ALLANKREPINA39]

Cleveland, Ohio's MLB team the Indians has been under pressure for years to change their team name and/or logo [a stereotypical hook-nosed face sporting a feather and bright red complexion.] So far nothing has changed--and probably will not--despite protest marches at the beginning of every season by native American picketers. Since I don't see much difference between the logo and the sambo image long resented by African-Americans, I'd have to come down on the side of native Americans, but feel I'm probably in a small minority.

 

[Swellegant]

I think in the case of the Cleveland Indians, particularly regarding the logo, it's racist and tacky. In the case of the Fighting Sioux, however, I don't see anything to be offended by. In fact, it honors and upholds an admirable and historically significant Native American tribe which is indigenous to the region in which the college resides. It's no more offensive than the Fighting Irish, if you get down to it, and really more appropriate.

But stupid people don't get what Politically Correct means. They interpret the problem with the Cleveland Indians' name and logo to mean that there should be no teams named after Native Americans; the issue, though, is that a team, or really any group or institution, should not caricaturize and demean a culture and ethnicity in any manner.

I wish there was a cure for stupidity.

 

[ALLANKREPINA39]

A very imprtant distinction. Thanks.

 

[WYSIWYG]

Firstly, lets get the term "Indian" correct. Columbus thought he had landed in Asia and not the Central American shores. He started the misnaming of the native peoples here!!

Secondly, I do not think that these native tribes liked being uprooted and put on reservations or lands where nothing will grow. I am sure they would prefer not to get government "assistence", live in poverty, or not have an education.

I am sure that most would not have liked to have their braves balls and cocks cut off, or their womens cunts cut out and stretched to dry on the horn of a solders saddle. In New England, the leaders of the rebellion agains the English, when one was captured, he was beheaded. The head was then put on a pike and left there by the side of the road.

And most of all we had no right to claim their land for our own.....As Chief Joesph of the Seattle Nation said: We do not own this land. We are caretakers only. it is not ours to give, etc.

We have been a racist and bigotted nation since the beginning....has nothing to do with being Poilitically correct, but a dehumanization of a race or peoples!

 

[Kurn]

Better to be politically correct than humanly incorrect. Human problems arise because little things don't get fixed.
Political correctness is an attempt to align grammar with reality.
Sometimes the correction lacks something. But what is always lacking is an appreciation for our fellow earthlings that would make discussions such as these unnecessary.

 

[trawler69]

Not so long ago in th UK the school blackboard was deemd not politically correct and renamed a chalk board. Black people became coloured people as did Asian and other non caucasian races. All this did was to remove their identity of which they are rightly proud. If you refer to a black man now as "a coloured gentleman" he will probably correct you.

Also I may buy a car from a second hand car sales man, but not from one who is so ashamed he insists on being called "A previously owned automobile reallocation officer."

 

[Nonimus]

Not so long ago in th UK the school blackboard was deemd not politically correct and renamed a chalk board. Black people became coloured people as did Asian and other non caucasian races. All this did was to remove their identity of which they are rightly proud. If you refer to a black man now as "a coloured gentleman" he will probably correct you.

Also I may buy a car from a second hand car sales man, but not from one who is so ashamed he insists on being called "A previously owned automobile reallocation officer."

And you can't ask for a black bag either - it has to be a 'refuse sack' - I'm sorry but the people who make up these rediculous re-naming schemes have to be the most racist of anyone. Who would even associate a blackboard or a blackbag with a member of the human race - unless of course its on your mind i.e. racist.

 

[Kurn]

Don't think I disagree Nonimus. People should concentrate more on more important matters. Like actually making friends with some "dark" persons.
Asking where they're from, like family history, family experiences, their own outlook and why they have it, is like getting a free education in how the world works.

 

[cocktales]

I think we must look toward Florida State University for guidance here:

I mean, they are nick-named the Florida State Seminoles, they have the hatchet-chop for their battle cry to encourage either a fierce defense or cry for a score.

At the beginning of home games, Chief Oseceola is ridden to the center of the field where a flaming spear is plunged into the earth as a sign of "WAR" toward their opponents!

The administration of FSU went to the Seminole Indian Nation (bye the bye, they NEVER had a peace-treaty with the U.S.) and asked permission to use their name and ALL the other practices in ALL university varsity games and GOT it!!

The Seminoles of Florida are proud that FSU wants to further the name of the Seminoles by naming their mascot after them! This is the highest honor anyone can do for their nation!

It's a shame that the judicial system "had" to get involved in this; whereas, the indian and college administrations could easily have settled the matter between the two entinties!

 

[unclaimedblessing]

I'm surprised the Seminoles ok'd the name & the image of Osceola.
He was a brilliant leader who died under mysterious circumstances while interred by the whiteman. A doctor decapitated him and kept his head for research.
Our history has too many examples of injustice and ethnic cleansing. I can readily understand why certain groups get outraged by our either glorifying or callously misusing references to their group or individuals.

 

[RationalLunacy]

yeah i don't know i have mixed feelings on this. "we" feel the need to change school mascots but yet we still allow the rebel flag to fly over state capitals... seems dumb to me.

Well, what do you expect from a country whose own nation's capital has a team called the Washington Redskins?

 

[mike0501]

Firstly, lets get the term "Indian" correct. Columbus thought he had landed in Asia and not the Central American shores. He started the misnaming of the native peoples here!!

Secondly, I do not think that these native tribes liked being uprooted and put on reservations or lands where nothing will grow. I am sure they would prefer not to get government "assistence", live in poverty, or not have an education.

Thank you for the lesson, but I think we are all well aware of the history behind the term "American Indian". But, whether it was the correct term to use at the time or not, doesn't matter now. They are called Indians nonetheless. And you know what else? They are quite happy with it. Ask any Indian you see which they prefer and they'll be happy to tell you. The term "Native American" was not coined by them, but instead by the "PC Police" who have created a society where we must walk on pins and needles afraid of whom we might offend at the turn of every corner. Secondly...what the hell do you mean by "where nothing will grow"? I admit that it was wrong and terrible to take their land and forcibly relocate them to Indian Territory (now called Oklahoma). However, this is a quite fertile place and I don't think they require your adding extra drama to their plight.

 

[mike0501]

You know, even today we still fuck with Native Americans...I agree, it's just a mascot but still...I don't know...I'm blabbing, I guess...

Hmmm... I'm not so sure about that. I agree that we fucked them quite well in the past...and it was wrong. However, you say "even today"... Right now, the single largest economic shift from the white man to the Indian is occurring. It is called "The Tribal Casino", and believe me, they are not complaining any more. The majority of the people I work with are Indians, many of them have become some of my closest friends, and I am an associate member of the National Indian Gaming Association (www.indiangaming.org), so I know a thing or two about which I speak. They openly admit to me all the time that they neither need nor desire protection from the PC Police and even joke to me all the time about whether or not I have "contributed" this week (in other words, have I played any blackjack).

 

[mike0501]

I'm surprised the Seminoles ok'd the name & the image of Osceola.

The Seminole Nation proudly supports FSU's mascot. This is because the mascot is respectfully kept in very high regard. The university and the tribe have a wonderful relationship that they are both quite happy with. However, FSU will change the mascot that they have always had. And it's not because the Indians demand it......

 

[unclaimedblessing]

Native Americans are just like any other ethnic group.
No one speaks for all. There are militants among them too.
Even when they were free no one spoke for them all. Individual bands of Sioux, Apache & Comanche etc didn't have to adhere to peace treaties other bands of their tribe agreed to.
Even their names are debateable issues.
The Sioux don't like the name Sioux. It was a bad name given to them by their Ojibway enemies meaning Little Snakes. They prefer Dakota, Lakota or Nakota (depending on the dialect of the three main divisions).
Apache means enemy in Zuni. They call themselved Dine.
Comanche means enemy in Ute. They call themselves Numunu.
So even the names we call them are derisive in some of their minds.

 

[Kurn]

The main thing is the attitude you have with you every moment of the day.