Not able to figure out what he wants

[Ally1980]

Hi JUB-ers

Hope you all are well

I am having a hard time figuring out what a guy i am seeing wants. I am gay but not out, i think he is too and not out. Story is bit on the longer side.

The sitaution is as follows, he is a colleague from work, 49, utterly handsome and single (Daddy alert!!). The moment i saw him two years ago I instantly liked him and this liking got stronger over time and developed into love from my side. he is a big chief in the firm I work.

Well it started as following. At one of the introduction days to years ago for new staff he was one of the presenters. That was the first moment I saw him and i was completely bowled over, after that wherever I saw him I had shaking hands and very goosebumps that comes along with a crush.

After that i met him many times during corporate drinks where we talked a bit. He was very friendly and cool for a senior in the firm. As I didnt want to come across as needy after that i kept a routine of greeting him during lunch and wherever I saw him. During around Xmas I saw him in the parking lot when I parked my car next to his, we started talking and I was like, I would love to know what you do as a professional in the firm. He replied by saying that it was sure possible to talk about it over a cup of coffee. Thus he invited me.

As I didnt want to come across as needy, i replied in February by reminding the idea of coffee and plan something. He agreed and then we talked over a cup of coffee, planned was 30 min but it resulted in like 1hr and a half. After the coffee i got to know that he is very sweet and neat person, thoughtful, interested in you as a person, curious to get to know you. But from what i know he doesnt do this with other juniors.

Till August I kept to the routine of greeting him whenever i saw him and staying a bit on the background, not to come across as needy (i can come across like that very easily). So after my holidays when I got back to work in August I sent him an email asking him how his holidays were. He replied short by saying they were great and whether I could come over for coffee that day. I was bowled over, and we planned somethign at the end of that day. I planned 30 min but we kept talkign for like 1,5 hr. And it wasnt work realted at all, more of a personal conversation with us asking each other personal questions. He asked me more then I did though.

Although we talked personal stuff, we didnt ask each other about our partners or love life explicitly, but the hints he gave directed me in the direction that he is single. Things like the darkness of winter and the lack of light he experiences. Or holidays he takes all alone. Kinda hard to imagine that him being mature, good looking and highly intelligent and succesful and he is still all alone. Well by now I had fallen in love with him, i just lose control whenever I see him.

Well the fact that he invited me to meet up 2 times by now, means he has some sort of interest in me. What type of interest it is I dont know. Does he know, I like him and does he just go along with that? Or doesnt he even have a clue and he is doing this as a senior guiding a junior? Plus seeing the age gap a friendship is unlikely as we are in different phases of life, moreover from the conversations he isnt in his midlife crisis either. He doesnt seem the type for a one night stand or fling. So what is it?


Well a few months passed and after him asking me two times I asked him for coffee this time. I gave some suggestions and he couldnt fit that in his planning, so he opted for a friday. As Friday being my university class day, i was like I cant, but before hitting the send button on the corporate communicator I thought: "Let me try to siuggest to meet up after class somewhere in a bar or so for a drink, and see how he reacts". Well I did that he responded postively, like for sure!

So I had the date last night.

It was a lot of fun, we talked over all sorts of stuff but mostly persona thingsl. I managed to confirm he is single, no kids and he is independent, strong willed and adventurous. But also that he might be gay, as I asked him about his places for clubbing and things he lieks to and his answers were very dodging, as he was holding info back. Moreover he didnt even ask me why i dont have a gf, why im single etc. I even asked him if it is usual for him to mingle with colleagues and juniors outside of work on a friday evening, he was like yeah i do that often in a group setting, as he is pro integration between departments.
He patted me on my arm, wishing me a good evening and seeing me soon again.

That triggered me to think that he is just being social to me, but on the other hand there mght be other reasons that I am not able to figure out. So i am experiencing a mixed feeling of dissappointment at one side and hope of the other that things are still possible.

Still the question remains, what are his intentions and what doesn he want?

Thanks!

 

[sixthson]

One thing is sure: nothing is possible if you both refuse to admit who you are. At the very least he likes your company and we know you like his. At some point one of you is going to have to take the big step. Since you want our opinions, I suggest you do it.

 

[aaggii]

Mention about the workplace being gay friendly, then tell him you know this cool place (gay bar) with good music etc and invite him. This way you play it safe, if he´s into you or at least he´s gay, he´ll most probably say yes, if not, at least you can know for sure what´s going on.

 

[racer2438]

I don't believe in high school hijinks...

so I just ask, I'm up front and clear as a bell.

Communication...is key to everything.......just ask him

 

[Seasoned]

There are some potential pitfalls here, the foremost one being the fact you work together and that he's in a senior position. The second issue is your claim of being in love with him even though you don't know what to call your interactions. Obviously, you have a strong attraction and some choices. You can continue this way or you can reveal what's been going on.

 

[Ganoderma]

hi Ally1980,

Good that you have made this posting about your current situation. Your profile indicates that you are a member of JUB since 2006 and you tell us that you are 24yo and that you are closeted (at your job). I tend to advise you to let people around you (= including people at your work) that you are a gay guy. Is there any particular reason why you are not yet out (at your job)?

Please note that I don't exclude that people at your work might well already be aware about your real interest. Are you really sure that any female co-worker is still believing that you are 'straight, single and looking around for a nice girlfriend'? Hey man, quite a few girls are very well capable to note that you will check out nice guys passing by (or things like that). All those female co-workers will as well be aware that you don't seem to have alot of interest / no interest at all in the topic 'girls'. Are you really sure that these female co-workers (and maybe also quite a few of the male co-workers) will have asked themself the question why you don't have a girlfriend?

Just follow the advice of #2 and/or #3. Start telling him items about yourself and see how he is reacting. Any idea about the general ideas / atmosphere at your workplace? Inclusive? Or with alot of homophobes?

Take care and feel free to react.

 

[TX-Beau]

Hmmmmmmmmmm................

OK, so first off you aren't on a date if you don't even know if he's gay or not. That is called hanging out.

Dating the Boss will get you soundly hated and despised in the office, and will ultimately get you fired. He isn't going to marry you and whisk you off to his country club manse to become his Hausfrau.

If this is happening as you say it is, and reading through the lines of your wishful thinking - this guy you've hung out with three times, has shown no interest in you sexually whatsoever.

No one in here knows anything about either of you and we are incapable of giving you any help about his sexual orientation, let alone his attractions.

If you are unwilling to tell a guy you like that YOU are gay, you will forever languish in an ocean of completely avoidable angst.

 

[JimLahey]

Well you've succeeded in coming across needy, by all the mentions or trying to not come across needy! I dig it though, I think I get what you mean. AS to whether or not this guy is straight or not it's very ahrd to say, there's been a number of people I've met who I could assume all I want but get it wrong. So far asking has been the only way I've gotten an answer. Sometimes the answer isn't what you want either, sometimes they're lying to you (and themselves) but whatever the say you've got to respect that. I don't have a fancy job, I'm a university student working as a pizza driver part time. I would agree with TX that seeing the boss is definitely a good way to be hated, maybe not fired, but if enough people don't like you well you might as well be fired. As per the comment on not being able to be friends due to age difference, I don't agree with. My best friend, I guess you'd call it that, is 29 years older than me, and plenty of other friends in their 30's-40's and some even my age and younger. It's high school mentality to focus your friendships based on age, when for the most part it's quite irrelevant. Though I am curious of your age, were you born in 1980?

Any reason you think you don't want to be out at work? From personal experience at some point people will find out and just wonder what the hell took you so long. Some people probably already know, especially when they ask you about girls, people are pretty perceptive on your lack of knowledge on women!

So what it comes down to is that you have to ask him or tell him how you feel. If he's not directly your boss it'll be less awkward, if he is things have a potential of going wrong. So I'd recommend at the very least mentioning that you're gay, but don't say how you feel about him, but don't say how you feel about him. I want to write that one down twice. From then gauge how he reacts, he might even disclose more info on himself, it might be what you want to hear or might not be, just expect nothing.

Here is the worst that could happen: He's extremely homophobic and will never talk to you again and try to get you fired. Now that's very unlikely. So you know it's going to be better than that at least, whatever you do respect his wishes and feelings. No means no. Again from personal experience you have to let it go if it comes to that, or you're just gonna be all sorts of messed up whenever they're around. Some people can managewith the person just fine after having those sorts of feelings, others can't, I don't know you but you do so act accordingly. If you can manage after that and maintain a friendship, you'll have someone who cold potentially be a good mentor in the workplace and a lifelong friend.

 

[LutheranGuy]

what are his intentions and what doesn he want?

Look him directly in the eyes, and ask him exactly that.

 

[Ally1980]

Well thanks for the responses guys. I havent been online lately so that why the late reply. Let me answer on a few things first.

My profiel says out at home, which is a relative term, being that only my sister and brother in law know this, the rest doesnt and I know they wont accept it. Regarding outing myself at work, it is a step too big to out myself at work while I havent outed myself properly to everyone at home. Also even though my colleagues are very supportive of me in general and like me, I am sure that would change that would if they know I am gay. What also does not help that all my colleagues are guys.
I do think my colleagues, have an idea. During dinners and drinks I am able to name all the current male actores but very few female actors. So Ganoderma and JimLahey yo might be right. They were like, dude how do you even know all those names? I am like yeah, I got two sisters, you know how that goes.

Also I am 25 and the colleague in question is not my boss. He is the head of a supporting department with which my department has limited to no contact. I used to be all messed up being around him, but that not the case anymore.

I must say that after the date a week ago, I seriously missed him for a couple of days. I saw him again on Monday and greeted him and was soo happy. Thats all. I am more inclined give him enough attention to keep him inyterested and coming back for more, rather going full Bruno (The movie one) on him.
Also it was his 50th birthday last Thursday as he told me during our date on Friday, so I was planning to congratulate him by either visiting him in his office or send him an email (whatsapp, text is not done, as he did not "permit" me to text him yet). As he was out of office I sent him an email and he replied to me that evening, thanking me and stating that he found is very nice that I even remembered. He was out on holidays out of country that day. And still replying me, that was really sweet .
I do think there is a personal basis between the two of us, I am not saying that it will lead to love but it will lead to something for sure.

As far as telling him I am gay, I might do that some day, but not now. I am seriously enjoying his company and attention and dont want to ruin it. Moreover, I dont know whther he would be able to keep it to himself, so not worth thr risk yet.
Also trying to keep my expectations as low as possible, but still have a lot of questions unanswered. Why did he pat me on my arm for like a split second? Also I have heard rumors in the past from other colleagues that he is gay, but never gave attention to that until now. Where there is smoke there is fire right?

 

[medic1]

^Or where there is wishful thinking there is heartbreak. What leaped out at me was when you stated that he would not allow you to txt him. This leaves me wondering why this caveat.

Tread carefully my friend, this has the stench of a fish-market........

 

[Ally1980]

Maybe i was too quick in my writing, but its not the case he forbid me to text or call him on his phone. He didnt even say anything on this topic.

I am more the type myself that I am not gonna contact him on text of phone before he allows to do so as in my opinion a text or call is more private compared to an email. And you dont want to thrust yourself in someones private space uninvited.

So in sum, he didnt forbid me but i took this choice myself. No caveat thus

 

[JimLahey]

Well thanks for the responses guys. I havent been online lately so that why the late reply. Let me answer on a few things first.

My profiel says out at home, which is a relative term, being that only my sister and brother in law know this, the rest doesnt and I know they wont accept it. Regarding outing myself at work, it is a step too big to out myself at work while I havent outed myself properly to everyone at home. Also even though my colleagues are very supportive of me in general and like me, I am sure that would change that would if they know I am gay. What also does not help that all my colleagues are guys.
I do think my colleagues, have an idea. During dinners and drinks I am able to name all the current male actores but very few female actors. So Ganoderma and JimLahey yo might be right. They were like, dude how do you even know all those names? I am like yeah, I got two sisters, you know how that goes.

Also I am 25 and the colleague in question is not my boss. He is the head of a supporting department with which my department has limited to no contact. I used to be all messed up being around him, but that not the case anymore.

I must say that after the date a week ago, I seriously missed him for a couple of days. I saw him again on Monday and greeted him and was soo happy. Thats all. I am more inclined give him enough attention to keep him inyterested and coming back for more, rather going full Bruno (The movie one) on him.
Also it was his 50th birthday last Thursday as he told me during our date on Friday, so I was planning to congratulate him by either visiting him in his office or send him an email (whatsapp, text is not done, as he did not "permit" me to text him yet). As he was out of office I sent him an email and he replied to me that evening, thanking me and stating that he found is very nice that I even remembered. He was out on holidays out of country that day. And still replying me, that was really sweet .
I do think there is a personal basis between the two of us, I am not saying that it will lead to love but it will lead to something for sure.

As far as telling him I am gay, I might do that some day, but not now. I am seriously enjoying his company and attention and dont want to ruin it. Moreover, I dont know whther he would be able to keep it to himself, so not worth thr risk yet.
Also trying to keep my expectations as low as possible, but still have a lot of questions unanswered. Why did he pat me on my arm for like a split second? Also I have heard rumors in the past from other colleagues that he is gay, but never gave attention to that until now. Where there is smoke there is fire right?

Now I'm not going to force anyone to come out, sorry I didn't realize you weren't fully out. I will; however recommend it. I come from a baptist family and I thought things were going to be much much worse then they turned out, my friends and family have been nothing but supportive. I can't say that it will be the exact same for you, but we tend to build things up in our mind, and blow them way out of proportion. Out at work is its own dilemma something that took me a while to get to after actually being out, changing cities and what not certainly hasn't helped me. For reference we're the same age, or I will be in a week, late birthdays and all that. At work there's a lot more politics to deal with, and you never know who's going to hate you just for it. Small piece of advice: no matter what you are, what you believe in, partake in, choose to do.... someone will hate you for, and if it's something you can't change like your orientation it reflects badly on them, not you. Being out to guys is awkward at first since the whole time before they assumed you are straight. 90% people will pretty much say "oh cool" or "oh I kind of figured" and absolutely nothing will change. Warning you will get "you're not coming on to me are you lolololol" or "have I mentioned I'm straight today?" it'll die down.

Now I too fell for an older guy a long time ago, we're still friends to this day. We started as friends, and became very good friends very quickly, and eventually moved together, I won't get into all the details but somewhere between all that I realized I was most definitely in love and very not out to anyone. After quite some time of knowing each other he asked if I was gay (I also assumed that on some level he was gay despite his previously being married to a woman, long story but saw some questionable porn on his laptop, dad/son stuff) anyways it was a pretty loaded question and at that time in my life I certainly wasn't ready to be outed and said no, and I asked him the same question seconds later and got myself a no. But I was lying couldn't he be lying too? Delusional is the word I choose in hindsight. Fast forward, financial issues, blah blah blah, I move back in with my folks, we still remain friends and I go up to see him well pretty much every weekend. We were in a bad environment where we were living and it had to end what we were doing. While living with the folks I started coming to terms with a lot of things, particularly some rather nasty things in the past, adn eventually my sexuality, which eventually lead to me outing myself to my friends and family. I wasn't out to my whole social circle until this year where it came up on facebook and things are still great with that.

I digress, During this period of enlightenment I ended up seeing my friend one day for several reasons. He had to deal with some of the same things as my past and I had to tell him how I've felt for such a long time. So I was up front with it, and he took it well but did mention that he's straight and "we" aren't going to happen, but we could still be friends. I was glad he took it well because I honestly thought I was going to lose a friend that day. After that? Absolutely nothing change, he treated me the same as any other day. I could of save myself a lot of heartache had I just dealt with the feelings earlier, of course things aren't that simple.

So all that to say a few things: I encourage you to out yourself, whenever you're comfortable doing it, and don't rush into. Do it enough times it's not such a big deal and people will simply find out naturally later in life. First at home, then at work. Work is a little different, but it's easier if you do it at home first just so you can say it nonchalantly at work.

- Be up front with this guy, you're going to save yourself a ton of trouble later and you might just do something stupid in between. If you just want a friend, that's cool, age difference really doesn't matter, just make sure you know what you want out of this guy. If you're gay and he's gay then hey you're good to go. If he' straight and still comfortable with you, well you've got a friend, nothing wrong with that, just respect that he's straight and you have no chance. Don't underestimate the maturity age can give someone (not always an indicator!!!) he most likely won't care at all that you're gay.

- Don't let him take all the lead. I'm aware that he's older, and it's easy to fall into the trap that he's like an authority figure that you need to wait for him to make a move and ask to hangout or whatever. Ask him to text you, give him a reason to text you. I understand what you mean about texting and waiting the appropriate amount of time before asking for a number, but you're 25 that's what our generation does!

I find older folk to be a little more touchy feely than our generation, the arm thing is hard to read. Typical at their age they're far more comfortable touching people, than people our age are (I have the hardest time shaking people hands without getting this puzzled look) he's also higher in management, it's part of an assertive nature to not be afraid to make body contact. If you look online you'll see there's a gay rumour about just about every single actor ever. It's not always the case where there's smoke there's fire. Any single male without children is suspect to the rumour, it's probably right about 15% of the time.

So get out there start asking!

 

[medic1]

Thanks for the clarification Ally1980........

 

[Ally1980]

Well due to a water leak ar work I had to relocate from my floor to some other floor. The whole building is basically one big flex working space meaning you can sit wherever you like. So somehow I ended up at his floor.

Was kinda funny that the moment i walked in i heard his voice saying 'wat a bright sunny day'! I went in a happy statue mode for a second and went in the room to work. Later on I saw him walking by we waved each other hello! He was looking soo hot with his new haircut . I had an urge to rush into his room and go chat with him, but too bad I had to go to a client . Well so far thats that .

 

[TX-Beau]

OK now you're sounding like a 14 year old girl. I foresee a thousand and one "...and then this happened..." posts that only further the story line and never resolve nothing - and perhaps that's the point.

You will get nowhere with any guy if you are unwilling to stop hiding your attractions. Period.