Once a cheater/liar, always one?

[JeanLuc80]

I discovered that my BF of 7 years likes to occasionally go on A4A and chat/web jerk off with other guys. I found this out because a friend of mine does the same and recognized my bf. When I confronted him about, he came clean and was very remorseful. He said it was a thrill of a live guy jacking off without actually doing anything with him. He said it turned him on more the porn. He claims he loves me, is attracted to me, and wants to be with me.

I'm hurt/confused and don't know what to do. Half of me wants to dump him and the other half wonders if we could come back stronger than ever from this. As always, I know the final decision is mine but I would love any input from you guys---whether it be just your opinion or something you've learned from similar experiences.

Thanks.

 

[TX-Beau]

Well, why is he doing this? Is he bored with your sex life? Is it more than that? Is it less than that? How are you defining cheating. it could be any number of things we're not going to be able to tell you.

This wouldn't really piss me off all that much and frankly I'm not the kind of guy who's going to get overly stressed over some spooge on the keyboard. I'd have a hard time treating this as anything really serious - the point?

I'm not the only guy out there that's like that. No matter what people say, there IS NO point to extreme reactions no matter how sanctimonious you feel. You want to keep your relationship I presume, that means communication and dealing with whatever it is that he says. You go off the deep end, that doesn't help, that hurts, it escalates and makes the problem bigger.

Now if he was sneaking out to date some guy, sex or no sex, that would piss me the fuck off.

i don't see why this automatically means he's lying about loving you and wanting to be with you. It probably isn't about you. If it were he'd probably be out there actually fucking other guys.

Calm down, think, figure out what you want say before you go back into a conversation about this.

The more you react like the jealous hausfrau the more likely it is he'll lie to you.

You need to know why, before you can get to what to do, and you can't force him to tell you what's going on in his head, you have to convince him to tell you, and the harder you make that, the less likely he is to tell you.

 

[ben9651]

Cheater ??
Liar ??
To me it seems like you`re overreacting.

 

[JeanLuc80]

Sorry...let me clarify. I had my gut feelings that he was doing it before but each time I asked him point blank about it, he said no. It wasn't until I had the proof (pics, site names, his alternate email) that he admitted to everything......

 

[KaraBulut]

Everyone has a slightly different idea of what constitutes "cheating".

There are those who believe that cheating is showing the goods to anyone- live or via cam.

There are others who believe that nothing is cheating as long as everyone knows.

He said it turned him on more the porn. He claims he loves me, is attracted to me, and wants to be with me.

Keeping in mind that 7 year relationships with guys who love you don't happen every day...

The decision you have to make is not whether to leave him. The decision you have to make is whether you're secure enough to have an open discussion about what "cheating" means in your relationship.

There are far worse things than a little virtual jackoff session. But there's an argument to be made that it's the first step to more real-life encounters.

It's up to the two of you to decide where the line is. And you also have to decide where the slippery slope begins.

 

[JeanLuc80]

Well, why is he doing this? Is he bored with your sex life? Is it more than that? Is it less than that? How are you defining cheating. it could be any number of things we're not going to be able to tell you.

This wouldn't really piss me off all that much and frankly I'm not the kind of guy who's going to get overly stressed over some spooge on the keyboard. I'd have a hard time treating this as anything really serious - the point?

I'm not the only guy out there that's like that. No matter what people say, there IS NO point to extreme reactions no matter how sanctimonious you feel. You want to keep your relationship I presume, that means communication and dealing with whatever it is that he says. You go off the deep end, that doesn't help, that hurts, it escalates and makes the problem bigger.

Now if he was sneaking out to date some guy, sex or no sex, that would piss me the fuck off.

i don't see why this automatically means he's lying about loving you and wanting to be with you. It probably isn't about you. If it were he'd probably be out there actually fucking other guys.

Calm down, think, figure out what you want say before you go back into a conversation about this.

The more you react like the jealous hausfrau the more likely it is he'll lie to you.

You need to know why, before you can get to what to do, and you can't force him to tell you what's going on in his head, you have to convince him to tell you, and the harder you make that, the less likely he is to tell you.

Thanks for your honest advice TX. I know to most guys, the internet chatting thing is no big deal, but my bf and I agreed from the beginning that things like that were off limits. We are secure enough to check out other guys and comment on their attractiveness together, etc but to take it where he did was not part of our relationship agreement when we laid out the rules.

The actual conversation where I confronted him about was very calm. I did not yell, accuse, etc---nor did he. I guess I'm just in total shock that he could/would do this.

 

[JeanLuc80]

But there's an argument to be made that it's the first step to more real-life encounters.

Your statement here sums up my biggest concern. Eventually the thrill of webcamming will die down and something new would have to happen to bring back that excitement for him.

 

[wonderwort]

Everyone has a slightly different idea of what constitutes "cheating"..

I agree with this statement.

Maybe in your boyfriends mind this didnt constitute cheating to him.

Tell your boyfriend that you consider camming with other guys cheating and are hurt by it and tell him to knock it off.

 

[silverbelt]

Maybe in your boyfriends mind this didnt constitute cheating to him.

I think this is the most important part. Your bf has simply found something that turns him on more than watching porn, which is fair. If he genuinely didn't think it was cheating, then there was no intent to cheat. Intent to cheat would be a bigger issue, since that definitely implies that there's something wrong between you two.

I'd say he just found something to do when you're not around, in a manner he figured is like porn, but not porn.

 

[dhchitown1984]

I wouldn't define jerking off on a webcam with someone else cheating. But then again, that's me. You clearly feel differently, which is also OK. He will probably feel differently too, which you have to remember, is OK too.

As its been said before, you need to find out the WHY instead of the WITH WHO's. My current BF likes watching porn sometimes when we're having sex. At first, I thought it meant that I wasn't turning him on.... so we talked about it.... and it wasn't the case at all. Turns out he felt like he wasn't doing enough to satisfy me, so he used it as ideas to try to emmulate what was happening in the porn.... crazy yes, but once I found out WHY, I was able to put myself at ease.

I suggest having the conversation first. Remember that in order to really grow and develop any relationship, you sometimes have to make yourself vulnerable and uncomfortable, and this converastion may do that. You've been together 7 years. I doubt that it's something that can't be talked about & worked through.

 

[racer2438]

Cheating is cheating and is unforgivable and his ass is thrown to the curb.

But to lie is different, and one can get thru this only if it is talked out and reasoned out as to why one would lie to you.

Being together that long there should not be any lie's. otherwise the trust issue is broken and hard to repair.

I don't think the A4A thing is as seriuos as you think as he did not physically do it with them other than on CAM. But the lie's of saying no at first, and or if his account was secret is the main issue to me. Perhaps he was bored sexually and just wanted to get off. The erotic feeling he got out of doing it online was maybe his way of having fun and yet NOT cheating on you.

So bottom line is the CAM issue could be a fun thing as long as he does not cheat and he does not get hooked on it and or act on it by seeing the people he CAM'S with.

But to LIE to you is the main issue you need to work out and fing out why.

My honey and I are on 27yrs and we don't play those games ie: to lie and we have our own time if we want to get off, ie: j/o to porn online. My honey has a A4A page but use it to find new friends that we can meet to got out and have a guy's night out, but we are very clear we are not looking to hook up...

 

[Seasoned]

No one knows what their spouses are up to for certain. Guys in general are suspect because it's expected that guys are likely to cheat. I know I'm making a generalization and of course women cheat as well, but some cultures almost expect guys to cheat.

The old stereotype of a gay guy was essentially a slut who couldn't settle down although, of course, gay couples have been with us throughout history. Some gay guys buy into strict monogamy while others do not. Some will even claim that a gay man isn't capable of monogamy. That, of couse, is nonsense, but every couple is free to define the working parameters of their relationship and ought not be judged by others as long as no one is harmed.

Your case needs some discussion as it is a surprise to you and something the two of you had agreed not to do. Is this harmless fun? Does it undermine your relationship? Does he have sex addiction issues? All this needs to be talked about and I'm a fan of couples counseling.

The issue is whether or not any behavior by either party negatively impacts the quality of life at home. Ask yourself that question and proceed accordingly. I think any ltr is worth saving as long as no one is in physical or emotional danger. Good luck to you both.

 

[rareboy]

I agree with everyone else. The two of you need to talk about this to see whether it is a dealbreaker.

The jerking off wouldn't necessarily bother me, but the lying would.

But who of us haven't done something that we were secretly ashamed of that we lied about in our lives.

So I'd say forgive. Forget. And try to explore how you two can recapture the magic.

 

[Rolyo85]

You've been together for seven years. Relationships evolve, or should. You might have made any number of "agreements" at the beginning, but this is not a business venture. It is a dynamic thing that grows and changes as you grow and change. Setting things in stone, and making things "off limits" is bound to bite you in the ass, which it did.

The way I see it, he could easily have lied to you because he knew you would react like a jealous insecure girlfriend, which, judging by your post (dumping him? seriously? for online jacking off? after seven years together? are you for real?!), you kinda did. People want what they want, and need what they need. He wasn't confident enough to discuss it with you, and that's his fault. But if you didn't make him feel comfortable enough to discuss it, then that's yours.

Either way, to me this isn't cheating at all...

 

[MascutarHero]

At least he's not going out "cheating" on you, or we hope he isn't. I'm going to be honest though, if I caught my bf doing that, I would be very upset but I don't think I would just break it off with him, that goes to show how weak the relationship is. If you truly love him you would discuss it with him and try to work things out. Thats what relationships do right? solve the problem as a team. I hope you two come to an agreement that will please you both.

 

[Just_Believe18]

As for your topic in general, this is what I can share:

Once a cheater is not always a cheater. However, it's easier for him to do it again the second time.

Take that as you will.

 

[cocksucker4use]

Do you guys have a good sex life? How much attention do you pay him? Do you two have intimacy and trust? If so, he wouldn't lie to you about anything. Why did he lie? He's ashamed and knew he was doing something you would consider "wrong." Maybe he knew all along on some level that you would find out. Negative attention is better than nothing. You two agreed seven years ago that jerkin off online, whatever, was off limits. Then, you two were like cats in heat, and he probably didn't even have anything left to jack out on cam. Looking back was this agreement truly mutual, or a rule you made and he went along with? Sounds like somebody feels out of control. If you want your bf back, try loosening up. Talk to him again, and let him know that the two of you can work through this. If you think jerkin off on cam and lying about it makes him a cheater as well as a liar, then dump him and move on.

 

[JeanLuc80]

Wow. I am surprised at the number of responses--varied and blunt. Thanks for the honest feedback.

I am not a jealous, controlling, obsessive bf. Looking back, I see how the title of my post can really give that impression. I am most upset that he lied about it. If he had come to me and admitted, I would have been shocked but I would have had much more respect for him. While it makes me uncomfortable that he chats and webcam jos with other guys, I can see how its not really cheating. He didn't meet up with them or talk to the same guy twice. It's just way out of left field because he told me what he wanted in a boyfriend and his definition of monogamy, etc. I didn't demand or make any rules, our relationship guidelines was something we both talked about.

After 7 years, our sex life is ok because the low frequency. When we do have sex, it's amazing. We cuddle, kiss, etc so it's not like our relationship is without passion. I imagine this is what it's like for other gay relationships 7 years+. You can't maintain that cat in heat tempo forever. It's normal?

I look at porn, check other guys out in public, etc but would never have the guts to webcam with another guy behind my bf's back. That's just me. And there was nothing in any of conversations to indicate to me that he had a different opinion. I know some guys are totally cool with it but to me its just too close to hook up territory.


I just really hate the fact he lied, more than once, and that I had to be the one to confront him on it. I still think if I didn't have concrete proof, he would have denied it.

At the root of it all, I wonder if I can ever fully trust him again. Anyone have a success story where trust was totally lost and then restored? How'd you do it? I definitely don't want to punish him for his lies but I don't want to be hurt or misled by them again either.

 

[Seasoned]

I think a lot of people would call it borderline behavior at best. What is the frequency of this? Is he addicted to it?

Trust is reestablished with open communication and sometimes with some couple's counseling. He has to either argue for continuing the behavior or explain why he thought it ok to go behind your back and apologize for that.

The two of you need some ground rules as to what is and isn't ok. There's no one on earth who someday won't disappoint you. Getting through and over this is what relationship building is about.

 

[Maestoso]

The only solution is to have a nice chat with him, and come clean with your feelings and opinions.

See what is his reaction and response. If he still refuse to talk about the issue, dump him.

There are better men out there.