Oral Sex and Window Period

[wshw997]

I am open to anyone commenting on this but would really really like to hear from someone who is in the aids-hiv field and knows what they are really talking about. In 2006 I performed oral sex on a guy (no ejaculation). I waited 4 1/2 months to get tested. The test came out negative.

Since that time I do not engage in any kind of sex with anyone. I can not understand why the CDC says 6 months is conclusive and some others say it's 3 months? Now I have doubts and am considering going and getting tested again (I am screwed up in the head--years after). So first question for a expert is what is "conclusive" 3 months 6 months and why the CDC says 6 months? Second is does anyone know of any cases where hiv transmission has occured from oral sex without ejaculation?

 

[KaraBulut]

There are two tests for HIV.

The most common test is the HIV antibody test (referred to as EIA, ELISA, Western Blot or CMIA). It looks for an immune response to proteins on the HIV virus. That immune response is the formation of antibodies by your body to those HIV proteins. It takes anywhere from 2 weeks to 6 months for your body to produce enough antibody to be picked up by the test. Most people will produce enough antibody to be produce a positive test within 6 weeks. There is a small minority that will require up to 6 months. That is why the CDC says 6 months.

The other test which is more expensive actually tests for the HIV proteins. That test can be done sooner and is more likely to produce a positive result since it does not rely upon antibody formation to produce a positive result.

 

[wshw997]

There are two tests for HIV.

The most common test is the HIV antibody test (referred to as EIA, ELISA, Western Blot or CMIA). It looks for an immune response to proteins on the HIV virus. That immune response is the formation of antibodies by your body to those HIV proteins. It takes anywhere from 2 weeks to 6 months for your body to produce enough antibody to be picked up by the test. Most people will produce enough antibody to be produce a positive test within 6 weeks. There is a small minority that will require up to 6 months. That is why the CDC says 6 months.

The other test which is more expensive actually tests for the HIV proteins. That test can be done sooner and is more likely to produce a positive result since it does not rely upon antibody formation to produce a positive result.

So anything before 6 months is really not "conclusive"?

 

[DeMan06]

The paperwork I had showed that if you were positive and were tested 3 months after contracting the virus there was a 99.97% chance you would test positive. The remaining .03% could take up to another 3 months (total of 6) to test positive.

A lot of people take the 3 months as pretty conclusive, but there is still a small chance that it couldn't detect the virus... so to be 100% you should get tested again at the 6 month marker.

The paperwork i had also showed that the rapid tests would give you a false positive (it would show you as positive when you were really negative) 1-5% of the time (depending on which rapid test it was)... just as some extra info for you

 

[KaraBulut]

The paperwork I had showed that if you were positive and were tested 3 months after contracting the virus there was a 99.97% chance you would test positive. The remaining .03% could take up to another 3 months (total of 6) to test positive.

A lot of people take the 3 months as pretty conclusive, but there is still a small chance that it couldn't detect the virus... so to be 100% you should get tested again at the 6 month marker.

The paperwork i had also showed that the rapid tests would give you a false positive (it would show you as positive when you were really negative) 1-5% of the time (depending on which rapid test it was)... just as some extra info for you

^^^QFT

What we usually recommend is that you get tested 6 weeks after your last exposure.

If you were negative at 6 weeks, we recommend that you retest at 3 months to be sure.

 

[wshw997]

You've gone 3 years now without any kind of sexual contact with anyone?

Is your fear of HIV the reason why?

Acquiring HIV via oral sex is extremely rare (when ejaculation did occur), and damn near impossible without it. On top of it you've now had an HIV test 4 1/2 months later stating you were clean. My fear is that even if you went for another test now, you would still be worried about it anyway. A fixation has developed and now you have to deal with your fixation, not your lack of HIV status.

I have just decided to look at gay porn rather then put myself at risk. I can not be one of those people who have a hiv test done and go back and have sex then go have a hiv test- a never ending circle.

 

[KaraBulut]

I have just decided to look at gay porn rather then put myself at risk. I can not be one of those people who have a hiv test done and go back and have sex then go have a hiv test- a never ending circle.

Well, do what makes you happy. You just don't have to do it alone.

We know how to prevent HIV. And one of those ways is to practice safe sex in a monogamous relationship.

Another way is to whack to gay porn with a buddy. As long as it's "on me not in me", you'll be fine.

 

[3nipples]

You had a bit of oral sex followed by a test after 4.5 month that showed you negative, yet you have abstained from any sex since then and are still obsessing over the risk you took that one time. Is that a fair summary?

You are at high risk of living an unfulfilled life. You really need to take steps to get a better perspective on things.

 

[wshw997]

Going to work everyday will kill you. From a heart attack, or killed in the car driving to work, or a workplace accident. Do you let that stop you? If not, why can you overlook a silly fear like that with far higher chances of death (workplace-car-heart attack) than you can from protected sex?

It sounds like you need to book some time with a therapist to get to the bottom of your fixation/obsession issues, if you really want to ever have a boyfriend, mate, lover, husband in your lifetime. And yes, some things are worth dying over after you've done reasonable things to keep yourself healthy and alive.

NONE of us know when we will die. You, me, anyone can die later today from a host of things. Don't let your unreasonable fear stop you from having a rich, full, and happy life.

Having sex, a bf, or a mate is not worth dying over in my opinion or catching a std--it's just not. No none of do know when we will die but that does not mean I go our and roll a couple of dice with my health. I am in no way trying to be critical of others I am just saying for me this is the way I feel better. The reason I posted is because the info on hiv testing period is either "3 months" or "6 months" so I and I am sure a lot of other people are just wondering? I am cool with my no sex situation.

 

[Synergy]

the reason HIV tests (the ELISA) dont turn positive until 6 months or so later, is because it's an antibody test.

antibodies are produced by your immune system in response to an Antigen (a foreign particle that is recognized by the immune system as a foreign invader). Once the antigen is presented to the immune system, it takes time for the cell cellular machinery to ramp up to the point that the anitbodies are measurable in the blood.

oral sex transmission of HIV is a theoretical risk, but as to date, I do not know of any case reports of oral transmission. It is thought that saliva (which has antibodies in it) may neutralize the HIV before transmission can even happen.

What's more, HIV transmission is not absolutely guaranteed. The highest risk behavior (receptive unprotected anal) has a less than 1% transmission rate. If you are really worried and it's really been 3 years, get tested one more time, and then use condoms afterwards. Don't deprive yourself of the wonders of sex, just be safe.

 

[KaraBulut]

A few updates on recent studies....

oral sex transmission of HIV is a theoretical risk, but as to date, I do not know of any case reports of oral transmission. It is thought that saliva (which has antibodies in it) may neutralize the HIV before transmission can even happen.

The problem that has plagued a lot of the studies is that it's hard to find gay men who only practice oral sex where the HIV status of the other person is known. So, there's a lot of guesswork on probabilities.

There was a study published from a study of 981 subjects did find evidence that oral transmission may have been a factor. But compared to other activities like receptive anal sex, the probabilities were relatively low.

One study indicated that of the approximately 100 seroconversions approximately 8% of the subjects were infected through oral sex. Another study in San Francisco found no cases where oral sex could be the sole risk factor. Another study that looked a probabilities found that unprotected oral sex carries about 1/6 of the risk of unprotected anal sex.

What's more, HIV transmission is not absolutely guaranteed. The highest risk behavior (receptive unprotected anal) has a less than 1% transmission rate. If you are really worried and it's really been 3 years, get tested one more time, and then use condoms afterwards. Don't deprive yourself of the wonders of sex, just be safe.

Be very careful in citing these studies because they are studies of different populations in different risk categories.

There was a study done of heterosexual couples where one partner was HIV positive and the other was HIV negative (called discordant couples). It found that in couples who did not use condoms, the infection rate was about 10% (assumed that they were having vaginal and oral sex). Among the couples who used condoms, the infection rate was 0%.

There was another study looking at the risk from a single encounter in men who had sex with men where the bottom was HIV- and the top was HIV+. They calculated a risk from receptive anal sex without a condom to be 5 in 1,000 (0.5%) from a single sexual act. This last clause is important because the risk increases with each act. So, if you have 2 encounters, the risk doubles to 10 in 1,000 (1%).


The bottom line on all these studies is that there is risk. Risk is associated with multiple partners, multiple encounters and high risk behaviors. If you're in a monogamous, long-term relationship with an HIV- person or if you limit the number of your partners and you practice safer sex, you will be in a low risk category.

It's a little like Russian Roulette- if I tell you that there is 1 bullet in one of the 6 chambers would that make a difference versus if I tell you there are 2 bullets in 6 chambers? Anyone with a rational mind wouldn't put a gun to their head.

 

[wshw997]

the reason HIV tests (the ELISA) dont turn positive until 6 months or so later, is because it's an antibody test.

antibodies are produced by your immune system in response to an Antigen (a foreign particle that is recognized by the immune system as a foreign invader). Once the antigen is presented to the immune system, it takes time for the cell cellular machinery to ramp up to the point that the anitbodies are measurable in the blood.

oral sex transmission of HIV is a theoretical risk, but as to date, I do not know of any case reports of oral transmission. It is thought that saliva (which has antibodies in it) may neutralize the HIV before transmission can even happen.

What's more, HIV transmission is not absolutely guaranteed. The highest risk behavior (receptive unprotected anal) has a less than 1% transmission rate. If you are really worried and it's really been 3 years, get tested one more time, and then use condoms afterwards. Don't deprive yourself of the wonders of sex, just be safe.

See that's what pisses me off though (not with but with this whole situation). I waited 4 1/2 months thinking I was all good as I was told wait 3 months with Elisa test. Now I hear 6 months--I just wish I would have known.

 

[wshw997]

Fair enough.

As most have told you waiting 4 1/2 months is more than reasonable, but since you aren't going to be having sex again for a number of years/decades, just splurge and get your test again and be done with it. Averaging out the cost over however many years you are going to be celibate it's a drop in the bucket. Or just go to your free medical clinic, and pay nothing. No muss, no fuss, no cost.

Yea but is 4 1/2 months conclusive or not?

 

[dadbear69]

Don't take this a being rude, I am just trying to get the facts straightened out in my head.

2006 you almost had sex with a happy ending

2006 + 4 1/2 months you had a HIV test and it was Negative but you are worried if the test was/is conclusive at 4 1/2 months and not 6 months.

The conclusion I come to either is you are trying to wind us up or you are really worried.

Simple answer have another test that will be well in excess of the 6 month window you seem to be aiming for. I will actually be about 3 years +

Another thought please speak to a professional to get help over this fear of not having (safe) or any sex.