Out at work?

[Avenger]

Hey guys,

So I'm fairly new here and this is my first post, so I'd like to say hello and also get your opinion on something I have been thinking about more lately....being out at work....

I hadn't given it much serious thought until recently when many gay tragedies appeared in the media between suicides and hate crimes, and it really made me question what I stand for and if I'm being completely true to myself. In short, I'm 26 years old, my family knows I'm gay, I have had a boyfriend for four years and both of our families support us along with our friends. In my private life I don't have much to hide and I have been among the lucky few gay men who continued to receive the support of many of my loved ones after coming out. I was completely out in college and in fact my school (even though it was a Catholic institution) had a pretty strong gay culture and I didn't feel ashamed or hide my identity there at all. Then, came the real world....

My career interest happens to lie in a male (straight/conservative) dominated profession and over the course of time I have been working, I have realized that I have become less comfortable with truly being myself. At first I didn't outwardly share my identity with my co-workers because I felt that it was politically a bad move. Then, I justified my not sharing my identity by saying well, it's none of their business anyway....kind of like a personal don't ask, don't tell policy. Occasionally the awkward conversation will come along with the various people I meet where they want to talk about "how many chicks they've had" and whatnot and I dodge those convos and try to redirect. I feel uncomfortable but it feels even worse when I try to play along because I'm being untrue to myself. Well all of this hit me in the face last week when I was meeting with a middle aged guy I work with. He is a kind of a dirty older guy so he started in with talking about what he's had girls do to him...yadda yadda. So the conversation progressed and he asked me if I had a girlfriend, and I said no...then he asked me if I was dating any girls currently....and I said no.....and THEN he asked me if I were gay, quickly followed up by "not that there's anything wrong with that" (seinfeld-esque). And I felt my face turn beet red, you know that burning sensation when you feel ashamed? And you know what my response was? I denied it....ouch. It was the first time anyone I worked with asked me directly. And it was the first time in the last 7 years of my life that I have denied it. And it made me think, am I letting myself go back IN to the closet??

So it got me to thinking....if I were out at work some of these people who don't think they know any "normal" (aka guys you cant tell right off the bat that they are) gay people would see the light that we take all shapes and forms and we aren't all stereotypes. Maybe that would lessen the amount of hate-filled speech I hear and endure every day quietly in my personal life and witness in the tragic events of late. Not that me being out would change the world, I'm only one person, but to be brave enough to change the perception of just a few people....when I see so many other people suffering, who weren't lucky enough to either have the same support system or experience to make it through it so luckily, I cringe and I think to myself "if these people only could HUMANIZE and RELATE someone they know to what they are saying, they wouldn't say or do such hateful things".

But then I think of the consequences. My career path-which up until now has been going well-could be altered because of my choice to be out. Then I think maybe I should switch fields altogether, maybe work in a more gay-friendly environment. But the idealistic and stubborn part of me says that my sexuality shouldn't matter and I should do what really interests me.

So I guess my question is, is there anyone out there who has gone through this or something similar before? Is there a right answer? I know what my gut is telling me is the right choice, but to be honest I'm afraid of the consequences. I'm feeling like I'm at a crossroads right now and I don't know the best way out....thanks for hearing me out...

 

[lucasss]

i'm not out at work dude.

 

[fetaby]

Not that me being out would change the world, I'm only one person, but to be brave enough to change the perception of just a few people..

And those people have friends and family who may be gay and struggling. You could affect a positive perception with as little as one degree of separation.

Anyway. In the end, when you look back on your life, do you want to be able to say that you didn't buckle under? That you did things the way you wanted to do them, with honor and integrity?

That blush you did is the world telling you to be ashamed. You can choose not to listen. You can choose to talk back instead.

I was a manager in a restaurant for about 9 years and I was out at work, in a free fire state. Now, I'm self employed.

 

[HornyHenry]

I never came out at work. Other than a couple of fellow gay men nobody knew. Best to keep it in the closet to protect yourself and your job.

 

[Bloke1964]

I am out everywhere... of course it all depends on the region you live in, the company you work for etc. I tend to subscribe to the point of view that being out can be beneficial for us all. Once one knows a gay person and gets to like him/her for what they are how can you help not liking gay people at all.... do I make sense?

 

[wooffy]

I've been out at workplaces for 20 years. Its trivial now given that I mostly work in the queer community, but it was far less easy at first - particularly when I worked as an office temp, and had to start a new job every few weeks or months!

Ultimately I found being out less stressful, and despite the occasional problem being true to myself let me be happier. Plus I suck at telling lies, so being out was easier, unless I wanted to completely isolate myself from all co-workers.

Honestly, I would refuse any job where I could not be out, and I would refuse to move anywhere that limited my ability to be myself.

 

[altlover85]

Avenger, what you did was understandable. I, myself, was only out to a few people at work. I was the receptionist and I would say there were more women than men where I worked. I wouldn't call it conservative by any means, but I still wasn't out to everyone. It's something I have to work on in the future, when I get my next job.

My advice is to make sure you don't trap yourself in a situation where you feel you can never come out. What I think this may mean is that at some point you will either have to come out or consider switching jobs and maybe even go into a different field. Can you find work in a gay friendly office doing what you do now? Can you and your boyfriend move if need be? How established are you?

The one good thing is, you are relatively young and you don't have kids, so you can more flexibility and more time to establish yourself then some people. Because you are out in your personal life, I think being in the closet at work won't work for you as a long term plan and will only make things awkward and stressful for you.

I have a few questions for you. How does your boyfriend feel about all of this? Is he out at work or in school, whatever the case may be?

Good luck and I hope you get in a better situation where you can be fully out and proud.

 

[JOHN B]

If you are out to your family, there is no reason not to be out at work. Now,....you do not have to brag about, or even bring up, that fact that you are gay, to be "out". But if you are out elsewhere, there is no reason to lie about your sexuality, or "fake straightness" when the subject comes up. The longer you are out, the less of a non-issue it will become over time. Pretending to be straight for years, then suddenly "coming out"...would cause more of a commotion for someone than just always "being themselves."

 

[Supersix]

Avenger, I could have written most of what you said!! What has worked for me for all of my 39 years of life is to just keep quiet about my private life, and keep a sense of humor. I'm sure a lot of people guess about me, but in the end everyone has private matters about their lives. It seems easier now that I'm older, and most guys have grown out of bragging about their conquests, making conversation a lot easier. In my current job, I don't see people nearly as much as I used to in previous jobs, so that helps, too.
And to those who are out, especially in straight environments, I applaude your bravery. You guys blazed a trail for the rest of us.

 

[altlover85]

Pretending to be straight for years, then suddenly "coming out"...would cause more of a commotion for someone than just always "being themselves."

I totally agree!

 

[Ninja108]

While I like to keep my professional and private life seperate, I don't hide who I am.
It's just me, but I couldn't do a job where I knew people would turn on me in a heartbeat because of who I am.
At the end of the day though, only you can choose what you want to do.

 

[Avenger]

Thanks guys for your input....i really appreciate it cause its been bugging me as I mentioned!

Altlover, I live in the Northeast so there are definitely some other professions that I could go after that are more "gay friendly"....which is why I think about switching careers freqeuntly, but it is unlikely that i could remain doing what I do now. My bf is in the exact same situation I am at work, so we can often relate to one another on not yet feeling comfortable to be out amongst our co-workers.

I think a lot of the other responses you guys have shared with me is kind of what I feel I should do....not necessarily advertise the fact that I'm gay but if it comes up, don't try to be someone I'm not. I'm upset at myself that I didn't have the courage to acknowledge who I am...I admire everyone's courage who has done it already.

For those of you who do live your life as you are at work, what have you found people's reactions to be? Are they ok with it? Do you feel you ever get treated differently? Has it affected your career at all?

I can't believe I'm asking all of this given how open I am about it in my personal life, but hey you spend 3/4 of your day at work so I guess that's why it matters to me. I just remember the feeling after my family and friends found out and how much freer I felt to just be me....

 

[altlover85]

What do you do now? If you don't want to tell everyone, you can just PM me, if you feel comfortable doing that.

What's good about the situation is, you and your bf are both in the same situation so it isn't a source of animosity between the two of you, like it can be in so many relationships.

Of the people who I told at work, it wasn't a big deal. I think your idea of not denying it is great. If you truly feel you can not be out at work or in your field, it may be best to change careers though.

 

[Supersix]

Many people are different at work than at home. Men at blue collar jobs can be cruel and gossipy just like women, which is why I keep my life to myself. On the other hand, I am fortunate in that a lot of the people I do work with probably wouldn't care. I do think about this alot in case my private life became known for some unusual reason, and I realized that, as embarrassing as it will be at first, it probably wouldn't be the end of the world. Everything blows over eventually. Still, I do my best to avoid it. I think each one of us has to weigh the situation he happens to be in.

 

[altlover85]

Many people are different at work than at home. Men at blue collar jobs can be cruel and gossipy just like women, which is why I keep my life to myself. On the other hand, I am fortunate in that a lot of the people I do work with probably wouldn't care. I do think about this alot in case my private life became known for some unusual reason, and I realized that, as embarrassing as it will be at first, it probably wouldn't be the end of the world. Everything blows over eventually. Still, I do my best to avoid it. I think each one of us has to weigh the situation he happens to be in.

Why would it be embarrassing?

 

[wooffy]

For those of you who do live your life as you are at work, what have you found people's reactions to be? Are they ok with it? Do you feel you ever get treated differently? Has it affected your career at all?

I can't really comment on career as such, since I am currently self-employed (and if I take a job again, it will be with one of the queer community agencies).

Overall - even thinking back 19 years ago - people's reactions at work are no different than in a social setting. No one acts surprised that I am gay anymore, of course, that's pretty much accepted here, now. But still, when you are polyamorous, into leather/kink, and plan leather events in your "spare time" you end up answering a lot of questions. I would rather answer questions about my life than deflect them.

I was fortunate enough that my last day-job was with a queer employer - out of an office of 7, only one employee was straight; 3 polyamorous; and 3 into kink/leather. I say fortunate, but of course this job was not a random opportunity - I worked for years in the queer community to become know enough to have access to jobs like that.

I find many people are so focused on the career they want - that is profession, income, promotions - that they neglect quality of life at work. For me that has always come first.

 

[bankside]

I was in at work for the first six months - until the official "Probation Period" had passed. Then I was out. This was all just before we got full employment equality protection through the courts in Alberta.

It makes a difference knowing you can sue the fuckers if they try anything.

You know what though, I think the "Out guy" has an easier time than the "Awkwardly in the closet and everybody speculates anyway guy." At least that way if anybody has a problem, they'll probably say it to your face instead of behind your back.

Especially in an environment like that, where a co-worker is happy to talk about eating out the latest chick or whatever, I find it helps just to say "Yeah....As for me, I prefer smoking pole..."

I don't know why but part of the anti-gay stereotype is wrapped up in thinking we're not just perverts but sneaky perverts kind of creeping around. If you just lay it out on the table in the same blunt language they use to talk about their own sex lives, you might get "FUCK - I don't wanna hear that!!!!" but that isn't the same as losing respect.

I have no idea what industry you're in or what the boundaries are for people's personal lives. So I guess I'm not sure. I'm not sure I'd come out that way, but I would consider it. Sometimes I think the secrecy bothers people more than the gay thing....

 

[thisisinteresting]

If it's relevant, I become out at work. If nothing of relevance comes up (random conversation about if I'm seeing someone, if I think a girl is hot, whatever), then I guess I don't really come out. But after my last job where my boss didn't know I was gay and made awful gay jokes, and practically sexually harassed me by prodding me to flirt with the female customers more... never again. Ugh. I still to this day want to shit on the doorstep to her business every time I see it. Such a vapid fucking oblivious cunt. Just gotta remember karma will serve her.

It's more important to me to be myself than anything else. If it negatives affects how people view me, I don't give a shit. I'd rather be hated for who I am than loved for some facade I throw out there to be accepted. Fuuuuck that. Out and proud while simultaneously not just randomly shoving it in people's faces.

EDIT: Oh snap, post 1337. Gotta stop posting.

 

[altlover85]

But you are not in the wrong for being embarrassed or denying your sexuality... cuz this is a work environment, and these things don't need to be brought up here. Why? Because obviously it's bothering you and interfering with work.

You say this, but I don't think you'd have a problem with a man mentioning going to a party with his wife or having a picture of his wife on his desk.

Why is him admitting he's gay any different than either of those two situations?

 

[Supersix]

With all of the above said, you'll still have to decide for yourself what you'll be comfortable with. I'd rather just keep some things to myself, and have everyone not know much about my business. I find it easier this way. Some environments are easier than others, and crying to human resources all the time can be counterproductive sometimes, too. One has to choose his battles, and not be hypersensitive. And as for being embarrassed about being out in a straight, masculine, blue collar environment full of locker room humor, I take it that is a rhetorical question. Unless you're one of those unusually brave souls who has always been out. If there is such a person in the above environment, and God Bless him, I've never met him.