Primal Man - Living Paleo

[JayHawk]

I don't know if this is the correct forum for this BUT it is one of the only places on the internet where I post and it is about health. Although not concerned about you butt cracks hairiness or your penis pimples... so with that said lets talk food and health IF anyone is interested.

I was wondering if anyone has eaten a Paleo or cave man diet? I recently started this plan and it is one word - AMAZING. I have ten times the energy. I recover better after the gym. I enjoy eating every meal. I am sure I will find something that doesn't sit well with me but so far after three weeks all is good.

The diet focuses on eating only things found prior to the agricultural revolution about 10 thousand years ago. Now 10k sounds like a lot until you consider man ate this diet for almost 2.5 million years prior to that. Basically you can eat oils that come from things on the list so instead of veggie oil you use say Coconut oil to fry or olive oil. The difference being that veggie oil is hydrogenated and processed to be useful and Coconut or olive oil is merely pressed from the source. You only eat free range or grass fed animals not penned caged hormone raised man created crap. With the veggies you eat the super foods. The brighter the colors the better the food source essentially.

There are some wierd things that many find hard to explain. SUch as Potatoes are out but carrots are in... now if the caveman could dig for a carrot ..err why didnt he find the 'tater. <SHRUG>

ALl I know is all the fresh meats, veggies and spices are very tasty and it is recreating my body. I have dropped almost 7 pounds as if I was running long distances (What I used to do to stay slim). Now I run a moderate amount and simply work out. I have noticed my work out is seeing results faster too.

SO anyways. Please take a look at the video. That guy tells it better than I ever could.

Please let me know if you have done it and liked it or if it interest you...

 

[guyfromNY]

It does sound interesting, but didn't cavemen only live a very short time. Wasn't 50 considered old age for them. It sounds as though the idea is to avoid foods that are processed in any way. This makes me wonder about things like iodine deficiency. It is still a huge problem in the world yet doesn't really exist in the US because scientists stepped in and started adding iodine to salt.. I've kind of gotten off track here, but my point is this. Do we know enough about the health of cavemen to want to copy their diets??

GuyfromNY

 

[JayHawk]

I dont know. But I do know that the diets are in stages. SOme folks go full out and want every item to be raw fresh etc.

I cant possibly afford that kind of food. I can get many items but for instance Bison or Buffalo meat is 9 bucks a pound. Most free range chix and beef are expensive too so i strike a balance and eat the best I can. Along with that I continue to supplement with a daily vitamin and I get calcium from it being introduced to Coconut milk and Almond milk... both of which are processed but amaxingly good and good for you.

SO it is a balance and throwing away what we do know about health is not a good idea.

Also the idea behind their lifespan was that they lived in caves, next to lions and bears that wanted to eat them and had no heat, sanitation or health care to identify problems. SO yeah they lived less. The concept of what your body is designed to eat doesn't change though when we replace our squalid conditions with modern comforts.

BTW I posted incorrectly before. Caveman were around 250,000 years ago and disappeared 30k ago... agri culture was 10k ago..

 

[onetwothreefour]

To me, the logic of the diet and the science that seems to be behind it seem great. I've read the Primal Blueprint, and I should get around to the Good Calories, Bad Calories book some day. I've also done a lot of my own research on nutrition. I've basically found that we've been told all the wrong things about fats and carbohydrates.

Generally I try to eat a low glycemic load diet, but it's a bit hard as I am a vegetarian. I do eat a lot of fruits and vegetables, but too heavy on the fruits side. I need to start doing more vegetables. I've been thinking of getting a Blendtec to help with that.

I eat eggs--although I have to force myself to cos I hate them.

But I try to eat mostly plants, and for protein, I eat a lot of nuts and almond butter. I drink unsweetened soymilk, which I'm sure is not paleo, but it's at least low glycemic load.

Everything I do is a compromise in that I face not being able to eat meat, I face not being able to do my own shopping, but given those things, I am always trying to choose the best things I can, with the goal of avoiding grains, and avoiding anything that will spike my blood sugar.

I am thinking of starting my own shopping this summer as a goal (it's a long story to explain why I don't now) and possibly getting the Blendtec as I said for green smoothies. Mmm....

Anyhow, I think the paleo diet is the right direction. Good job on your progress.

As for the potatoes, why they wouldn't be included in a paleo diet--one guess is that it's because they couldn't be eaten without being heated? I'm not sure. Because I doubt they ate meat raw did they? Ok, I should admit now, I *skimmed* the Primal Blueprint, which is probably why I don't know all of these things. But I avoid potatoes anyhow because of the high glycemic index. But they're not a bad food in terms of nutrition otherwise.

 

[greyhorse]

It seems to me it is a high protein fresh veg diet which definately works for some people as is promoted as a good healthy diet. Glad to here it is working for you. Keep us informed. G Thanks for posting.

 

[KaraBulut]

There are similar diets that have been proposed in the past- such as the "blood type diet" or the "mediterrean diet".

The assumption is that certain ethnic groups have adapted over centuries to digest foods in their region. Therefore, people who are from different ethnic groups should adapt their diet to the foods that were predominant in the area of the globe where their families originate.

So for example, northern Europeans have relied heavy upon dairy cows as a food source and they have retained the ability to digest milk products well into adulthood. In contrast, people who lived in warmer climates where milk would spoil quickly, did not consume dairy products and tend to lose the ability to digest milk products (e.g. lactose intolerance) as adults.

The problem with this is that many people in North America are from very mixed backgrounds and it's not as simple as someone in Europe, Asia or Africa whose family has been in a particular country for centuries.

If you're eating healthy food, getting appropriate nutrients and it makes you feel better, then there shouldn't be any issues with whatever marketing pitch is used to promote a more balanced diet.

 

[JayHawk]

To me, the logic of the diet and the science that seems to be behind it seem great. I've read the Primal Blueprint, and I should get around to the Good Calories, Bad Calories book some day. I've also done a lot of my own research on nutrition. I've basically found that we've been told all the wrong things about fats and carbohydrates.

Generally I try to eat a low glycemic load diet, but it's a bit hard as I am a vegetarian. I do eat a lot of fruits and vegetables, but too heavy on the fruits side. I need to start doing more vegetables. I've been thinking of getting a Blendtec to help with that.

I eat eggs--although I have to force myself to cos I hate them.

But I try to eat mostly plants, and for protein, I eat a lot of nuts and almond butter. I drink unsweetened soymilk, which I'm sure is not paleo, but it's at least low glycemic load.

Everything I do is a compromise in that I face not being able to eat meat, I face not being able to do my own shopping, but given those things, I am always trying to choose the best things I can, with the goal of avoiding grains, and avoiding anything that will spike my blood sugar.

I am thinking of starting my own shopping this summer as a goal (it's a long story to explain why I don't now) and possibly getting the Blendtec as I said for green smoothies. Mmm....

Anyhow, I think the paleo diet is the right direction. Good job on your progress.

As for the potatoes, why they wouldn't be included in a paleo diet--one guess is that it's because they couldn't be eaten without being heated? I'm not sure. Because I doubt they ate meat raw did they? Ok, I should admit now, I *skimmed* the Primal Blueprint, which is probably why I don't know all of these things. But I avoid potatoes anyhow because of the high glycemic index. But they're not a bad food in terms of nutrition otherwise.

I used to avoid eggs but the paleo diet recommends and newer research suggest eating eggs actually reduces bad cholesterol so I fell ok about it now. I also use the Omega 3 eggs.

It seems to me it is a high protein fresh veg diet which definately works for some people as is promoted as a good healthy diet. Glad to here it is working for you. Keep us informed. G Thanks for posting.

No problem. I think the key is that it is a diet (as in form of sustaining your vitality) vs. being a common use of diet (as in temporary deprivation for a short term goal)

There are similar diets that have been proposed in the past- such as the "blood type diet" or the "mediterrean diet".

The assumption is that certain ethnic groups have adapted over centuries to digest foods in their region. Therefore, people who are from different ethnic groups should adapt their diet to the foods that were predominant in the area of the globe where their families originate.

So for example, northern Europeans have relied heavy upon dairy cows as a food source and they have retained the ability to digest milk products well into adulthood. In contrast, people who lived in warmer climates where milk would spoil quickly, did not consume dairy products and tend to lose the ability to digest milk products (e.g. lactose intolerance) as adults.

The problem with this is that many people in North America are from very mixed backgrounds and it's not as simple as someone in Europe, Asia or Africa whose family has been in a particular country for centuries.

If you're eating healthy food, getting appropriate nutrients and it makes you feel better, then there shouldn't be any issues with whatever marketing pitch is used to promote a more balanced diet.

I agree with your last sentence. That has literally always been my guide although I have eaten many things that are horrible for you supposedly. I am a foodie to the core and so I try a lot of stuff.

I read the blood type diet and didnt truly buy into it. It was a well thought out concept but I have a hard time generalizing "what" I am based on simply my blood type. Based on my heritage it could be across the spectrum. The funny thing is as I eat more and more Paleo it conforms a lot to what the Blood type diet suggested for my blood type. Lots a fruits veggies, fish, chicken and such.

I read a book a short time ago called "Born to Run: A Hidden Tribe, Superathletes, and the Greatest Race the World Has Never Seen" The link take you to a explanatory website. That was an amazing story of the natural abilities of man and of how we became the dominate animal on the planet vis a vis hunting not our brains. It also tells the story of why so many people are going barefoot these days for running and hiking and everything else. An amazing read if you have the inclination.

 

[KaraBulut]

I used to avoid eggs but the paleo diet recommends and newer research suggest eating eggs actually reduces bad cholesterol so I fell ok about it now. I also use the Omega 3 eggs.

Eggs got a bad rap back in the 1970s when cholesterol was discovered to play a part in vascular disease. Without any research, a declaration was made that eggs should be avoided in order to lower cholesterol.

It was many years later that research confirmed that- unless you have a specific set of metabolic disorders, eggs aren't going to cause a signficant elevation in serum cholesterol. Ironically, a few studies found higher cholesterol levels in subjects who didn't consume eggs.

The misinformation persists but as long as you are consuming a reasonable amount of eggs (specifically egg yolks), there's no adverse effects.

 

[Telstra]

cave man diet is very limiting.

I would not restrict any food as long as it is good healthy food.

 

[JayHawk]

I here ya Telstra. I thought the same initially but if you look at the original diet that was written by Loren Cordain, Ph.D it has three stages and you can participate in one, two or three levels. I choose one because I still include healthy things I enjoy. Level three would be the strict version.

The other odd thing about the Paleo diet? It has been around 12 years and while many 'diets' are flash fads; the paleo diet keeps getting more and more people.

KaraBuLut I did not know all of that history. I did know that the perceived bad part of an egg was the yoke. I have eaten egg whites for a long time. Never realized how much I missed the yoke.

 

[onetwothreefour]

There are similar diets that have been proposed in the past- such as the "blood type diet" or the "mediterrean diet".

The assumption is that certain ethnic groups have adapted over centuries to digest foods in their region. Therefore, people who are from different ethnic groups should adapt their diet to the foods that were predominant in the area of the globe where their families originate.

So for example, northern Europeans have relied heavy upon dairy cows as a food source and they have retained the ability to digest milk products well into adulthood. In contrast, people who lived in warmer climates where milk would spoil quickly, did not consume dairy products and tend to lose the ability to digest milk products (e.g. lactose intolerance) as adults.

The problem with this is that many people in North America are from very mixed backgrounds and it's not as simple as someone in Europe, Asia or Africa whose family has been in a particular country for centuries.

If you're eating healthy food, getting appropriate nutrients and it makes you feel better, then there shouldn't be any issues with whatever marketing pitch is used to promote a more balanced diet.

I'm not sure that this follow in the same vein as blood typing or typing by ethnicity. The premise is that all humans evolved to do well with the hunter-gatherer diet. And that since agriculture started 10,000 years ago, not enough time has passed for the human body to evolve to use grains and their derivatives as good sources of nutrition. Grain tend to trigger inflammatory responses in humans, which is why we must process them the way we do. Black beans for example contain inflammatory anti-nutrients, which is why they need to be soaked for a long period of time. Wheat contains anti-nutrients. All grains do. And the outer husk of grains contains chemicals that were designed to keep animals from eating the grains--it was a defense mechanims. However, other plants contain good taste and color and sugars in order to encourage consumption, which is how those plants spread their seeds.

I don't admit to being an expert as I've only skimmed the material on paleo diets. But I just wanted to point out that it isn't based on the idea that humans are unique based on blood type or ethnicity--it says that all of are limited by the amount of evolution that has or has not taken place. And that when we are in agreement with and eating the foods are bodies evolved to eat, we are healthier. Perhaps if we had natural selection still and those most susceptible to heart disease and diabetes from eating carbohydrates from processed grains died off, and those most tolerant to the effects of eating grains survived, eating grains and even sugary sodas and wonderbread would contribute to a healthy life, because the people who had natural variances allowing them to tolerate such a lifestyle passed on their genes. That type of evolution isn't happening with modern science and it also can't happen in the span of 10,000 years.

 

[MoltenRock III]

And cavemen died in their 30s of old age. There is no magic or secret eating plan that solves anything and everything. Most of these fad diets can't be kept up for more than a few or several months, much less decades. And let's not even go to 10,000 years or more.

 

[KaraBulut]

I'm not sure that this follow in the same vein as blood typing or typing by ethnicity. The premise is that all humans evolved to do well with the hunter-gatherer diet. And that since agriculture started 10,000 years ago, not enough time has passed for the human body to evolve to use grains and their derivatives as good sources of nutrition.

Just to be clear since the last paragraph of my post may get missed or misinterpreted...

I don't endorse or recommend "diets" since most seem to be based upon some sort of pseudo-science or they encourage some form of caloric restriction that causes a weight-gain rebound. I would include the blood type diet in that category even though it does have some good points about how the "food pyramid" might not be the best nutritional source for every person. The rest of the concept of the diet is largely pseudoscience.

There are a few that are marketed as diets that do make some progress toward changing the way that people eat- focusing on healthier food choices, less processed foods and a reasonable number of calories. And as long as they are viewed as long-term changes instead of "lose weight quick" plans, that is fine.

 

[JayHawk]

And cavemen died in their 30s of old age. There is no magic or secret eating plan that solves anything and everything. Most of these fad diets can't be kept up for more than a few or several months, much less decades. And let's not even go to 10,000 years or more.

See that is the problem with the misconception that a diet is a short term thing. This is a diet for your life. People who had started 12 years ago are still enjoying with continuing vitality and health and more and more people are joining as time goes by.

The fad 'diets' as you refer to them aptly are just that and they achieve result by cutting out specific thing that usually your body needs. Such as natural carbs from good veggies. This diet simply removes all the crap that requires massive processing to even be considerable edible by man. In fact you can eat as much as you can eat if it is paleo. Nobody ever got fat eating four pounds of fruit and veggies... or even four pounds of fish.

To be honest there are actually very few restrictions if you have always enjoyed eating good food. I have never really been a fast food junkie so it wasn't much of a change except for oatmeal and wholegrain and French bread...those things hit the curb.

Anyways what is bad for you about fish, beef, chicken, bison, venison, every vegetable known to man damn near and every fruit? Plus like I said to Telstra there are levels. I still enjoy rice occasionally putting it into soups and such. I made liver Pate' the other day and wasn't interested in eating it paleo (either off a spoon or off lettuce) so I got melba toast. Both of those items are processed grains that shouldnt be consumed according to strict level three Paleo. However at level one I can simply avoid them most times.

This mornings recipe was a Coconut milk and Curry frittata with spinach... so good.

 

[mbamike]

Hey Jay! Referencing back to your OP, I have had a similar experience. I have eliminated most of the sugar, hydrogenated oils and processed foods from my diet. I eat fruits, vegetables, eggs (mostly egg whites) real cheese, and real meats. I eat every 3-4 hours too. I have lost 25 pounds!

 

[JayHawk]

Mike it is amazing isnt it. Not really a 'diet' in the form of depriving yourself of anything either.

I havent felt better in years and I always ate fresh good foods but I had those bad things in there.

Glad to see other folks are feeling the same things.

 

[JayHawk]

Well this may end up being a thread of me talking to myself after this point and who knows how long I will do this but since I am looking closely at what I eat, I will share it. Plus I thought it might be fun to trade off ideas if anyone else enjoys cooking or even better cooking paleo.

Tonight's dinner is Wild Caught Lime Steamed Salmon with spinach, yellow pepper, shallot, tomato and fresh dill saute on top accompanied by roasted sweet potato and carrots. The carrots and Sweet Potato are roasted in coconut oil as the saute was fried in the same for flavor and health. I am really surprised how tasty and healthy coconut oil is for your body.

Anyways there ya go...

 

[Seasoned]

Is this based on European paleo? There were herbs, but no spices, no potatoes, tomatoes, sugar, tea, coffee or chocolate. Those were all brought to Europe after world-wide exploration.

 

[JayHawk]

Honestly I am not smart enough about Paleolithic man to answer your questions. I know there are no potatoes but spices are all just fine except salt, tomatoes are okay too but coffee and tea are to be limited and then eliminated from the diet.

I personally have had dark french roast with chicory in it (the way they drink it in New Orleans) every morning since I was introduce to the strong nutty drink about 12 years ago and I am not stoppin... so...