Queens, Wanting to Understand

[Stardreamer]

I have spent most of my life serving in the military or working in a military environment. So even after I came to understand and accept my bi-sexuality, I've had little opportunity to explore the gay community or get to know others who were openly gay. My son is gay and I was having a discussion with his boy friend about a classic gay stereotype, the flaming queen. We're talking about the individuals who act in an extreme feminine manner, wearing make-up, speaking and moving in feminine manners.

I have met a few individuals who fit this stereotype and have nothing against them personally but I simply cannot understand them. Why live what is essentially a bad stereotype? I can't think of any reason why one would want to do this even if they are transgendered. So I thought I would ask here, do you know individuals who fit this lifestyle and could enlighten me why they do it? I really want to understand.

 

[BlondeCanadian]

Who says that the stereotype is essentially bad stereotype? Heternormative culture perhaps? who defines normal and abnormal? They feel like it is normal for them to be feminine while you do not,
I do not personally relate with the "flaming queens" but I have learned enough to accept them

 

[Scottyboi]

I could never be one, namely cuz I don't have the balls to pull it off.

But seriously, while I agree that I, personally, don't find them attractive...there is nothing more awesome then a big ol' bear dressed up like a flaming queen in drag who is confident about it. They few I've met had personalities to captivate an entire room xD

 

[Seasoned]

It was the queens who began the militant gay rights movement along with the butch lesbians.

What do you think takes more courage, to behave as a man is expected to or to go against type? While you have been busy protecting the country, the queen down the block has been protecting my rights simply by being out and about teaching us all about stereotypes. My gratitude to you both.

"Ain't" it grand it takes us all to make the world go around?

 

[hackingnomberr]

I would say this situation is pretty similar to how they're gay in the first place.
It's not about acting a certain way, it's the way they feel on the inside, which is why they express themselves as such. Anything different would be them not being themselves.~

 

[hylas]

a queeny person most likely acts this way because its true to their nature, just like being butch is presumably true to your nature.

i dont find super-flaming queenery attractive either, but it doesnt prevent me from being friends with them (just like i can be friends with women without finding them attractive. or other men that arent my type.)

negative attitude towards queens is rooted in heteronormative thinking, which amongst other things says that women are supposed to be a certain way and men a certain other way. heteronormative thinking also sais that women are worth less than men, which makes 'men who act like women' particularly disdained.

of course, everybody who isnt straight as an arrow knows how wrong heteronormativity is, and its a good thing to fight it within us and in the world.

 

[KaraBulut]

I have met a few individuals who fit this stereotype and have nothing against them personally but I simply cannot understand them. Why live what is essentially a bad stereotype? I can't think of any reason why one would want to do this even if they are transgendered. So I thought I would ask here, do you know individuals who fit this lifestyle and could enlighten me why they do it? I really want to understand.

You're asking about two different things- sexual orientation and gender. There's an overlap between the two but they're very different things.

There is a group of gay men who ave feminine mannerisms, act flamboyantly and would be called "queens".

There's also a large group of overly masculine gay men- bears, leather daddies, fitness addicts, sports nuts, body builders, etc.

There's also a group of straight men who enjoy wearing women's clothing- some are tranvestite and some are transsexual.

If we were to put Johnny Weir, Andrew Sullivan and Eddie Izzard into a lineup, most ptople would talk about Johnny Weir and what a swishy, flaming queen he is. The other two guys wouldn't get as much attention and would probably get a pass.

Why is that?

Johnny Weir:

Andrew Sullivan (with his partner at their wedding):

Eddie Izzard:

 

[Stardreamer]

Who says that the stereotype is essentially bad stereotype? Heternormative culture perhaps? who defines normal and abnormal? They feel like it is normal for them to be feminine while you do not,
I do not personally relate with the "flaming queens" but I have learned enough to accept them

Most stereotypes have a basis in truth in that you can often find examples of them inside the target group. This one in particular definitely exists as a small subset of gays as a whole. The stereotype become bad when they are used to generalize and belittle the group as a whole. Until recently Queens and opposite extreme of the hyper-masculine leather wearing male in the leather bar were the predominate stereotypes you saw of gay characters in the media almost always played for humor and ridicule.

I don't personally don't have a problem with folks who live the Queen stereotype other than not being able to put myself in their head which I guess is part of the issue. I don't have a problem being friends with them and often find them funny and amusing. Hell if I weren't married I've met one or two I probably wouldn't have minded sharing my bed with. I'm just curious as to why, because I don't understand them.

 

[Stardreamer]

I could never be one, namely cuz I don't have the balls to pull it off.

But seriously, while I agree that I, personally, don't find them attractive...there is nothing more awesome then a big ol' bear dressed up like a flaming queen in drag who is confident about it. They few I've met had personalities to captivate an entire room xD

That is an interesting observation and I hadn't really thought of it that way. They do draw attention and yes it does take a lot of courage and confidence to do so. And yet there is also a lot of negative attention that will come along with the positive. It must be stressful.

 

[Stardreamer]

It was the queens who began the militant gay rights movement along with the butch lesbians.

What do you think takes more courage, to behave as a man is expected to or to go against type? While you have been busy protecting the country, the queen down the block has been protecting my rights simply by being out and about teaching us all about stereotypes. My gratitude to you both.

"Ain't" it grand it takes us all to make the world go around?

I would agree it takes a lot of self confidence and courage to live that lifestyle and I think I agree with the previous poster the motivation seems to be the attention it draws, a queen definitely stands out in the crowd .

 

[Stardreamer]

a queeny person most likely acts this way because its true to their nature, just like being butch is presumably true to your nature.

i dont find super-flaming queenery attractive either, but it doesnt prevent me from being friends with them (just like i can be friends with women without finding them attractive. or other men that arent my type.)

negative attitude towards queens is rooted in heteronormative thinking, which amongst other things says that women are supposed to be a certain way and men a certain other way. heteronormative thinking also sais that women are worth less than men, which makes 'men who act like women' particularly disdained.

of course, everybody who isnt straight as an arrow knows how wrong heteronormativity is, and its a good thing to fight it within us and in the world.

I wouldn't call myself butch, quite the opposite, although my Second Life alter ego has turned into quite the Alpha Male Dom (Laugh). I can usually put myself in other peoples heads, in that I can imagine and understand the reasons they do what they do even if it is different from my own nature. I've never quite been able to do that with queens though, its just too different.

I think I agree with the others comments on how much self confidence and courage it takes to actually live the lifestyle and yet it can't be a very self satisfying or even healthy lifestyle as a whole given the negative attention it brings. But I agree we need people who have the courage to not be a 'Mundane' to show us all that there is more to life than the color grey.

 

[BlondeCanadian]

Most stereotypes have a basis in truth in that you can often find examples of them inside the target group. This one in particular definitely exists as a small subset of gays as a whole. The stereotype become bad when they are used to generalize and belittle the group as a whole. Until recently Queens and opposite extreme of the hyper-masculine leather wearing male in the leather bar were the predominate stereotypes you saw of gay characters in the media almost always played for humor and ridicule.

I don't personally don't have a problem with folks who live the Queen stereotype other than not being able to put myself in their head which I guess is part of the issue. I don't have a problem being friends with them and often find them funny and amusing. Hell if I weren't married I've met one or two I probably wouldn't have minded sharing my bed with. I'm just curious as to why, because I don't understand them.

Yes but who used that stereotype to belittle. It was the media outlets which are enforcers of heternormative ideals. This is like saying that people who act like stereotypical jewish people should change because they are portrayed in the media as being whiny and cheap. Should those jewish people who are cheap and whiny change just because there is a stereotype used to belittle them out there?

BTW just a precurser I am not anti semitic at all was just using the stereotype as an example I do not know how valid the stereotype is