respect

[Andreus]

in an effort to foster communication and understanding, i am posting this thread in this "no flame" area of JUB to ask a simple and positive question.

what do the bisexual men here think being respected within the GBLT look like?

please do us all a favor and answer this without making comparisons OR accusations at gay men in any way... please dont say... the gays do ____ and i dont like it, or.... gays act like _________ and i dont like it

just define respect and what you want it to look like

tell us what being bisexual is in our world, what the difficulties are, how you deal with it, and how you want others to view you!!

thanks in advance!!

hugs, guys!

 

[Andreus]

no takers on the respect thing?

 

[bayern20]

Thats not the problem.

I think its easy to understand BI's and their situation. The problems between gays and Bi guys doesn't come from a lack of understanding. It comes from both sides making false statements about each other, even though both sides know they are wrong. (just because there is this love/hate thing going on)

The problem is that BI guys are caught in the middle and feel that they need to come off as more masculine. (because masculinity is thought to go along with being straight, and femininity goes with gays) Of course that is not true but this stuff continues.

I know loads of straight guys that are not what we would all consider masculine. Whether that be how they looked physically, how they expressed themselves, based on their interests, or their state emotionally.

I'll use my friends as an example, who are all straight:

My best friend is highly emotional, shares his feelings all the time, is not afraid to cry or show that he is down.

One of my other friends is a guy who is very skinny and not that tall, very small stature and he is pretty insecure.

One of my other friends is a very intelligent guy, but his interests are mostly computer games, studying, and things which I would consider very "non-manly".

All of them are straight, but to me, none of them come off masculine.

There are a very very few people, who come of masculine to me.

My straight brother comes of very feminine and he is not gay or BI. Why? Because he seems way too insecure to me and no matter how big stature you are, or what not, that makes you look a certain way. Stature itself can make you look less masculine.

Look at people, talk to people, ask them about their interests, look at the way they express themselves, listen to what they do..and you will find some aspect that makes that man seem very weak. Its not enough to look like a man, there are loads of things that make someone seem masculine. To me, the category of masculine is very small, and 80% of people dont fit that..whether they are gay, bi or straight.

 

[Andreus]

thanks

but i just want to hear the BI guys define their sexuality and what it means to respect them without using gays as a negative example

im sure its posible

it will go a long way to foster understanding if they do

once again....

guys

please answer this without using the word GAY or any refference to gay people

thanks

 

[bayern20]

I dont understand..do you not know what BI means? Is it possible that a gay person does not understand what it means to be bisexual?

 

[Andreus]

I dont understand..do you not know what BI means? Is it possible that a gay person does not understand what it means to be bisexual?

can it be that you could let the bisexual guys define themselves without using gay people as a comparison?

could you let THEM answer for THEMSELVES?

this is quickly going down hill and for no good reason

i am giving the guys the oportunity to define themselves in a positive light that wont cause hurt feelings so that people can begin to get along

i am interested in what THEY have to say

thanks again!!

 

[Andreus]

I'm not quite sure what you're asking, Andreus. But, I'll give it a shot anyway. Personally, I don't see the anti-bisexual biases, I only hear about it second hand. I don't have tons of interaction in the "homosexual community" per se, just mainly my boyfriend and a few of his friends. I guess I don't understand why anyone would be threatened by bisexual guys. Why would they even care? And, in the context of being around other guys or dating a guy I don't really think about my bisexuality. That's only relevant because I'm also attracted to women. I guess I would just say that I would hope guys wouldn't care who else other guys are attracted to, as long as they like guys as well.

thanks buddy!!

thats exactly what i mean!!!

i think gay people would be very open to hear Bisexual lifestyle experiences if they werent always held up as the negative model

lets hope that others will answer as well

and one question....

if there were " Bisexual" clubs out there, would you go to places like that?

 

[Kyanimal]

Dreu !

I'm not sure exactly where you're going, or what you're looking for here.

Personally, my own History would define me as "Bi". But, I decided I prefer "playing" with Guys! And since that time, I've been entirely "Gay"!

I can certainly understand enjoying sex with both genders! And, discarding "Labels", can wrap my brain around the idea of simply being a "Sexual Being" without confining one's self to a particular category. If that's "Bi", then so be it.

As an "aside", "My" Kev has never experienced sex with a Girl. Whereas, I have ... one Numerous occassions. But that hasn't proven to be a problem in our, nearly, 25 years together. And, now, with your question, I'm wondering if You have ever had the experience of "playing" with the "Fairer" Sex?

From reading a lot that is going on in the boards, I feel I can also understand the "Only Gay Guys" dissing the "Bi's"! Mainly due to the lack of experience/understanding. As ever, the disrespect reflected is mainly the result of personal ignorance!

If it is of any help ... Yes! It is quite possible to enjoy Sex on both sides of the fence! And, unless you have walked both sides of the street, it really is impossible to understand the attraction of all the possiblilities that Life has to offer!

Respect is something that can only be gained through Knowledge! Unless you've walked a mile in another's shoes ...

Know what I mean?

Keep smilin'!!
Chaz

 

[Turkish]

if there were " Bisexual" clubs out there, would you go to places like that?

Yeah just to see what exactly they would be like. I think it would be interesting, trying to balance a gayclub with a straight club . But as for the main question, it is really hard to answer because I honestly have only felt discriminated for being bi by gaymen, and I am probably lucky in the sense.

As for dificulties, dealing with it, and how others view me, I think of bisexuality as a constant struggle, because with true bisexuality you can never really be sure. People ask me all the time, "so do you think you'll finally just settle down and get married and have kids one day?" and I usually respond, "No, but I don't know." Then they usually ask "so then you think you'll be with a man in the end," to which I again say "No, but I don't know." Some bisexuals only have romantic feelings for one gender, and look to their bisexuality for sexual expression/release. Others (like myself) can have romantic feelings for both genders, and that is where being bisexual, is never being sure of yourself.

Don't want this to be too much of a "Debbie Downer," . I just have to take everyone on a person to person and that is my plot as a bi-romantic, bisexual person.

 

[Andreus]

Yeah just to see what exactly they would be like. I think it would be interesting, trying to balance a gayclub with a straight club . But as for the main question, it is really hard to answer because I honestly have only felt discriminated for being bi by gaymen, and I am probably lucky in the sense.

As for dificulties, dealing with it, and how others view me, I think of bisexuality as a constant struggle, because with true bisexuality you can never really be sure. People ask me all the time, "so do you think you'll finally just settle down and get married and have kids one day?" and I usually respond, "No, but I don't know." Then they usually ask "so then you think you'll be with a man in the end," to which I again say "No, but I don't know." Some bisexuals only have romantic feelings for one gender, and look to their bisexuality for sexual expression/release. Others (like myself) can have romantic feelings for both genders, and that is where being bisexual, is never being sure of yourself.

Don't want this to be too much of a "Debbie Downer," . I just have to take everyone on a person to person and that is my plot as a bi-romantic, bisexual person.

thanks for the answers

and BTW.... you're a really cute guy and you seem sweet

i have a few JUB friends in DC who would love to meet ya

 

[Andreus]

Dreu !

I'm not sure exactly where you're going, or what you're looking for here.

Personally, my own History would define me as "Bi". But, I decided I prefer "playing" with Guys! And since that time, I've been entirely "Gay"!

I can certainly understand enjoying sex with both genders! And, discarding "Labels", can wrap my brain around the idea of simply being a "Sexual Being" without confining one's self to a particular category. If that's "Bi", then so be it.

As an "aside", "My" Kev has never experienced sex with a Girl. Whereas, I have ... one Numerous occassions. But that hasn't proven to be a problem in our, nearly, 25 years together. And, now, with your question, I'm wondering if You have ever had the experience of "playing" with the "Fairer" Sex?

From reading a lot that is going on in the boards, I feel I can also understand the "Only Gay Guys" dissing the "Bi's"! Mainly due to the lack of experience/understanding. As ever, the disrespect reflected is mainly the result of personal ignorance!

If it is of any help ... Yes! It is quite possible to enjoy Sex on both sides of the fence! And, unless you have walked both sides of the street, it really is impossible to understand the attraction of all the possiblilities that Life has to offer!

Respect is something that can only be gained through Knowledge! Unless you've walked a mile in another's shoes ...

Know what I mean?

Keep smilin'!!
Chaz

thanks for the answer

it also begs a new question for the other guys....

if you make a lifelong commitment to a guy, would you eventually consider yourself to be gay?

i have always believed that sexual identity was based on desire, not actions, and as such, once a bisexual always one.

that may be one of many wrong assumptions i have made about bisexual guys.

 

[bayern20]

How can a BI guy tell someone if they will end up with a women or men?

Thats like asking a gay guy which guy SPECIFICALLY they will marry.

BI's are attracted to both men and women. It means they have the ability to be attracted to both..so how can they answer that?

 

[Andreus]

How can a BI guy tell someone if they will end up with a women or men?

Thats like asking a gay guy which guy SPECIFICALLY they will marry.

BI's are attracted to both men and women. It means they have the ability to be attracted to both..so how can they answer that?

once again....

lets let the bisexual guys answer for themselves

thats why this forum was created wasnt it?

to allow them the opportunity to have a positive environment to say what it is that they are

 

[dfwjacker]

Honestly, I don't need a gay person's or the GLBT community's approval or "respect" when it comes to my private life, just like they don't need mine.

Gay men and bi men are totally different animals and don't seem to be very compatible in my opinion. We can get along if we try, but that doesn't mean we have the same interests or needs. There is no need to take things personal if someone isn't looking for the same things you are. We certainly don't have to be attracted to each other, or like every aspect of each others lifestyle. We are individuals above all else... Just be who you are. If that means being gay and out fine, if that means being bi and closeted that's fine too. It's no one else's business but yours.

I'm kind of getting sick of this gay vs. bi war that's going on here and it reminds me why I previously took such a long break from JUB. It's easy for a guy to feel alienated by all of this and it doesn't really speak well for the the so called GLBT community. Hidden behind the niceties on the surface here is a lot of animosity. Sites like JUB are really the only exposure to this GLBT community that many of us bi and curious guys have and so far I haven't seen much of a reason to want to be a part of that community. At this point I think it should probably be called the GLT community instead. After all, how many bisexual people feel they are really part of this community? Probably not many.

 

[Andreus]

so you only define yourself by the use of gays as a comparison?

thats really interesting

why is that important?

 

[Turkish]

so you only define yourself by the use of gays as a comparison?

thats really interesting

why is that important?

I wouldn't say I ONLY define myself as gays in comparrison, just do within the context of the GLBT community, if that makes sense. I am sexually attracted to men and I'm a man. Gay men are the same why. I just have the additional attraction to women as well. I guess in that sense I'm just "gay+" , though that makes it sound like I think I am better or more than a gayman, which obviously isn't the case.

I think the debate is silly, just as all people who are "different" want to be accepted by whichever community/group they seek approval from, many, if not most bisexuals want to feel accepted by the gay and lesbian community. I won't continue with this though and ideas of gays not accepting bisexuals because that isn't in the spirit of this thread, and there are plenty of other threads about that.

very interesting thread though , especially if it can stay on the topic of bisexuality itself, and not devolve into the classic gay v. bi debate that I've seen rage on here before I became a posting member.

 

[blackbeltninja]

All I want in terms of respect is to be accepted by everyone for what I am.

Not for what they THINK I am based on a previous bad experience with someone they assume is like me.

I ask only to be judged on merit. Its just common courtesy, after all.

-d-

 

[luminum]

I don't see how gay men and bi men are totally different animals. Could you explain that?

 

[Kyanimal]

thanks for the answer

it also begs a new question for the other guys....

if you make a lifelong commitment to a guy, would you eventually consider yourself to be gay?

i have always believed that sexual identity was based on desire, not actions, and as such, once a bisexual always one.

that may be one of many wrong assumptions i have made about bisexual guys.

I can only offer an answer based on my own experience. So, this is only valid for Me. I can not assume to speak for others. Their "Truths" are not, necessarily, the same as my own.

I can offer a comparison, though. I hope this doesn't run too long ...

In my mid-twenties, after college, and all the experiences/discoveries of those times, I was working in the car biz Service sector. One of my mechanics, Scott, and I, became Very Close friends. We worked together, played together, and even "Played" With each other! He was the first guy to ever fuck Me!

He was "unofficially" engaged, and I was also dating one of his fiance's sisters! I knew his family, her family, and all their friends! I was also "playing" with two of his male high school buds! So ... there were four of us Guys walking both sides of the street, so to speak! There were circles, within circles, within circles!

Scott even told me, that through this time, he was trying to decide what it was he really wanted. Eventually, he made his own decision. I was in his wedding! As far as I know, he's maintained being "Str8" ever since!

And, the same story holds for one of those high school buds of his. Not sure about the third guy, though. Lost touch ...

In my case, I managed to elude any firm committments, to girls or guys, until I met "My" Kev! Since THAT time, nearly 25yr. ago, I've been entirely Gay! I no longer consider myself a Bi Guy.

Despite my history, I'm not all that sure I ever was Truly Bi, since I knew I preferred Guys. Looking back, knowing what I know now, I would have to consider myself a Gay Guy that was being very open minded!

And, yes, through those other times, I did desire, adore, and cherish, "my" Girls! There was true attraction and affection. I nearly married four/five of them! The thing that moved me not to make that mistake was my inner knowledge that I liked Guys just a bit more!

I was more emotionally involved with the Girls. The Guys were more for "sport". But, then, with "My" Kev, "both sides" clicked! Yes, I'm now, completely, Gay!!

I'm not sure if I've managed to answer the question through my rambling. I can only hope I may have offered a wee bit of enlightenment through my own perspectives.

We all go through many different "phases" throughout our Lifetimes. My own sexual identity happened to be one of those many things about me that "phased". Eventhough I was internally aware of my "core" preferrence, I do not regret having gone through my Bi times! All of that was a tremendous expansion of my own understandings, not only of others, but also of myself.

One more thing ... Gay Guys, and Bi Guys, are NOT different animals! We're ALL Guys!!

Keep smilin'!!
Chaz

 

[Andreus]

well

i dated a bi guy once and ive slept with a few pre op transexuals, and quite honestly they are alot of fun in the sack

im fond of dick, but i dont have a problem with the feminine state

i wonder where that places me?