STRAIGHT FRIENDSHIPS - "Gay" as a synonym for "bad"

[alli-berri]

My straight roommate, and closest thing to a "best friend" I can think of, has all of a sudden been substituting the word "gay" with "bad", knowing full well I have a serious boyfriend.

"That movie's gayyy." "Dude, because it's gay." Etc.

WTF??? I remember coming out to him around this time last year - he definitely reacted uncomfortably - but why the fuck did he think I'd TELL him if I didn't want him to be more sensitive towards the issue?

Straight friendships........ am I crazy to think these could actually WORK? I mean, not all straight guys are the same, but shit... Hearing him say that hurts! Maybe I'm overreacting... Maybe his intentions are harmless...

Fuck it, I'm angry as hell about this.

 

[csm123]

Hi alli-berri

Next time he says a film is gay you could answer,telling him you thought the film was crap,so it cant be gay as good things are gay.

My guess is that this will be enough to make him think about what he says in future.

I personally try not to let any such comments bother me unless i feel they are aimed at me,then i may respond without being nasty, unless it continues,then i often laugh at it just because this annoys them more than retaliation.

Just try to not let things like this get you down,you will feel far better if you can laugh at a gay joke rather than letting it get at you,which is something we face throughout life.

Good luck

 

[alli-berri]

Hi csm123 I think you're right about learning to let it go. I'm beginning to spot my own naivete left and right these days...

Possible lesson: Unhappily seek one's fantasy life, or learn to find happiness in reality.

Muchmuchmuchmuchmuch easier said than done, no? ....

Bye for now.

 

[palemale]

Back in the very early 80s, while in college, a large group of guys were together and one was making some very homophobic comments. I, at the time, was only seeing women, so nobody thought of me as gay or bi, I didn't think of myself as gay or bi. I said to him, in front of about 10 guys, "psychologists say that people who make anti-gay comments do so because they fear their own latent homosexuality." The other guys laughed, and I never heard him make an anti-gay comment after that.

I'm not suggesting you be so blunt as that, because he's your friend. Of course, the guy in my case lived next door to me and we hung out a lot. However, you might want to just ask your friend why he uses the term "gay" to describe something he doesn't like. By posing the question, it would certainly make him think about it and give you an opening to discuss it with him in a non-confrontational way. It would also give you the opportunity to make him aware that using the term bothers you.

 

[Scottyboi]

i know what your talkin about

I have two friends, straight guys, who use "gay" as a synonym for "bad" frequently. One of which even says "fag" on occasion (though oddly enough, he never says it towards anything actually gay)

One of these friends is more recent for me, and while he's a good guy who likes me as a person I'm pretty sure he's at least a little homophobic. I'm trying to be a good example and show him that "we arn't all after his dick" and confronting him about it directly when he crosses a line.

the other friend I've had for years and I'm a little more at a loss for what to do with him. I know because we talked about it all those years ago that basically for him and many people out there gay has two definitions that have no connection in their mind. He tends to say fag as well but he tends to substitution "fag" for "douchbag" a lot, I don't think you could ever catch him saying it to an actually gay guy (this friend swore my brother out when my brother told me I shouldn't come out to my grandfather)

With this second friend I'm still at a loss of what exactly to do...a couple times I've referred to something being "straight" in a negative fashion in front of him after he had called something "gay" earlier. Another time I've referred to a person as a "breeder" negatively. I don't necessarily know whether this has had any effect but he has stopped saying something was "gay" as much as he used to.

For the few times he does say it now, I tend to let it go since it hasn't been happening as much recently. Partly because I don't wanna make a big scene outta it but also because I only recently stopped saying something was "gay" myself.

sorry, that ended up being a lot longer than I originally intended xD

Just so you know, your not alone in this. And you can be friends with straight folk, I don't actually even have any gay friends. If it wasn't for my straight friends I'd probably be just another suicide statistic a long time ago.

 

[number42]

Don't make a fuzz about it.

My best friends still say 'gay' as a synonym for 'bad', even tough they know i'm gay. I don't mind and i've told them that.

I simply started saying 'straight' as a synonym for 'bad'. To even things out.

 

[alli-berri]

Some people think that because they are open-minded and pro-gay they can use terms negatively because they don't mean it in the bad way we think. They're wrong.

Yesssss, that's a very good observation.

Freaking out because your friend just started using the word "gay" means the friendship isn't that strong for you. That's quite a silly thing to consider the friendship unworkable for.

You're definitely right about that... It's weird. It's like, I made the decision at some point that if I meet someone with "X" quality/opinion/attitude/insensitivity, that someone is automatically "bad', or not one with whom I should be friends. But doing that means ignoring what reasons TO be friends with that person... ugh.

I said to him, in front of about 10 guys, "psychologists say that people who make anti-gay comments do so because they fear their own latent homosexuality." The other guys laughed, and I never heard him make an anti-gay comment after that.

Hehe, this sounds like a great way to blend in without compromising your ideals... nice one!

By posing the question, it would certainly make him think about it and give you an opening to discuss it with him in a non-confrontational way.

I think this would work if he were a more open person. He's the type of fella who will outright never respond to something he doesn't feel comfortable talking about. Discussion would be lovely, of course.

...basically for him and many people out there, gay has two definitions that have no connection in their mind. ... I only recently stopped saying something was "gay" myself.

MMMM, mmhm! This is exactly the reasoning I used to come up with before I phased out my own habit of saying "gay" like that... hadn't remembered that 'til you mentioned it.

I guess this is one big reason why it angers me. I phased "gay" out before I developed an identity with the term, so I guess I assumed other people my age were doing the same regardless of their sexuality.

...a couple times I've referred to something being "straight" in a negative fashion in front of him after he had called something "gay" earlier. Another time I've referred to a person as a "breeder" negatively.

LOL. Breeder is a good one. I think I may try this. It's a very stereotypically straight-male, "ball-busting" approach.

I simply started saying 'straight' as a synonym for 'bad'. To even things out.

Mhm, yeah I think I've decided that this feels like the most generationally-appropriate strategy.

 

[alli-berri]

yeah i have a ton of straight friends... they never use this, though, because it went outta style a loooong time ago. it's simply not cool.

i don't think that you have insensitive straight friends, you have uncool straight friends.

HAHAHA this is hilarious... absolutely true, too. They are total losers.

And I suppose I wouldn't want to have them any other way.........

 

[Scottyboi]

I'll warn ya now though, I don't think me saying "breeder" is what opened his eyes about saying gay or fag. I think it might have been me confronting my slightly homophobic friend that made the long time friend of mine start to change his behavior a bit.

Most straight folk don't even know that the insult "breeder" exists. Its like calling a white guy "cracker" or "honky".

That being said you're welcome to try it out

 

[slnattak]

There's enough *real* homophobia in the world to not worry about this.

But this is the way to deal with it: You make fun of 'straight' right back.

I fight fire with fire. I mock straight males. I say heterosexual males are soulless and unempathetic and I equate straight male-ness with lighting stray cats on fire and all sorts of moral evilness, just like our friends at Landover Baptist.org. If they actually get offended by me, then I will jump on the hypocrisy and exploit them any chance I get, but usually what happens is they'll laugh and agree with me. And if they don't, guess what. It's the *straight man* that has a egg on his face. Not me.

So maybe it's true. Maybe I am lamer than straight males. But so what? Why should I care? Maybe I'm not 'cool.' I never fit in with the popular crowd anyway you know. Always been a bookish dork of sorts.

It's sort of objectively true. A lot of gay men are kinda nerdy and oversensitive and a lot of straight males are way too arrogant and overly insensitive. And instead of getting all offended by what they say and trying to correct them (that just proves they are right) I just make fun of them back. Because when you really think about it, there is nothing wrong with both essences. They are just the different flavor of the universe.

If you let yourself get offended over things like this, you are agreeing with their perception that you are 'less than' they are. You are actually playing the victim, not standing up to it. A lot of times my sister will say 'that's so gay' just to try and get a reaction out of me but I think she's a sociopath anyway lol.

 

[slnattak]

I'm glad that straight males are insensitive. They make their own selves the bad guys that way.

I prefer my men sensitive, weak and faggy. No, really. I do hehe.

I don't want world alignment. I want diversity. Diversity is the basis of all life! I want straight men to be insensitive and uncaring throat fuckers and people who use their own egos to get what they want. It makes good comic book villains. I want queer people to be the heroes of the world if they have moral upliftment. It makes for a good romantic adventure story.

I don't want people to be like me, I'm glad my grandmother used to make fun of me for liking flowers and not sports when I was younger. It made me realize who I was even more. I'm glad I didn't collect every single goddamn hunting and army magazine like my straight brothers. I'm glad I was a writer and gay nerd who enjoyed rpgs because there are so many more like me. I don't want them to be different!!! I want them to be straight. And I don't really want the straight energy over the gay energy. I thought I did but I don't. I like caring sex. I love love and I love empathy and genuine compassion! They can stay evil brutes and insensitive because it just helps me clarify what I want more in a partner. I want a truly nice guy that understands me. I don't want some mean straight brute-y brute!!!

I NEED AND WANT ONLY ALIGNMENT WITH ME AND MY OWN DREAM!!!

*audience cheers*

 

[briefboy86]

who cares, I use the word "gay" for "bad" and so do many of my straight friends..

 

[alli-berri]

I don't want world alignment. I want diversity. Diversity is the basis of all life!

My heart is truly warmed by your passion for diversity. Diversity is, after all, a wonderful aspect to life!

I'm glad that straight males are insensitive. They make their own selves the bad guys that way.

I agree with your first sentence, if it's in the context that living within a diverse world is beautiful. Your second sentence I'm not sure I understand

I want straight men to be insensitive and uncaring throat fuckers and people who use their own egos to get what they want. It makes good comic book villains. I want queer people to be the heroes of the world if they have moral upliftment. It makes for a good romantic adventure story.

Your ardor is so endearing, I wasn't in the least surprised to learn you're a writer

Admittedly, when I first read this I thought you were crazy. Reread it, and I've decided to believe that you've actually shared an intimate, personal, SEX fantasy. Lol... maybe not though. But if it IS the case... I wouldn't say I share your fantasy. "Insensitive straight males" aren't necessarily a turn-on for me, but those who may loosely fall into such a label do emotionally move and intellectually stimulate me - I'd say in ways that few other generalized groups of people can. Not that my friends haven't popped into a fantasy or two... but they'll never know

I prefer my men sensitive, weak and faggy. No, really. I do hehe.

Oh, sensitive - I agree It's weird you chose to say "faggy", and I wonder if you were intentionally being ironic.

I don't want people to be like me, I'm glad my grandmother used to make fun of me for liking flowers and not sports when I was younger. It made me realize who I was even more. I'm glad I didn't collect every single goddamn hunting and army magazine like my straight brothers.

The intensity with which you share this is wonderful... All of our experiences - even at their most uncomfortable, and especially at their most emotionally violent - are to me fascinating; no regrets here, either. It's good to know I'm not alone in that thinking.

My posting this thread was less about venting feelings of scorn, and more about finding a solution to my problem. I always learn to appreciate the things that frustrate me - which I think is what you're getting at, but it definitely takes a couple of days at least, haha. Oh, and some rockin' advice from JUB or something!

I like caring sex. I love love and I love empathy and genuine compassion! ... I want a truly nice guy that understands me.

Mmmm. The best! Hard to come by, I'm learning...

I don't want some mean straight brute-y brute!!!

Except for that whole, straight guy romantically fucking you until you super-heroically dominate him with morality, fantasy-thing, right?

I NEED AND WANT ONLY ALIGNMENT WITH ME AND MY OWN DREAM!!! *audience cheers*

No sir, I applaud you for writing such a impassioned post.

 

[alli-berri]

In advance, I just want to apologize for the length of my response.

who cares, I use the word "gay" for "bad" and so do many of my straight friends..

Yeah? Yeah... Idunno. I'm certainly willing to consider the fact that I overreacted.

Maybe the way you use "gay" around your friends is contextualized by a more experienced or more established social environment. Meaning, you and your friends have an understanding - perhaps once verbalized - where everyone agrees "gay" is OK and not derogatory.

In that case, my situation is quite different. My having a boyfriend is something my friends can't even bring themselves to talk about out loud - the topic of sexuality is, in fact, avoided entirely. You probably have some idea where your friends stand opinion-wise on your relationship, no? Your partner popping up in conversation isn't considered a threat to the comfort of everybody in the room, I might assume? Do correct me if I'm wrong - I find the topic extremely interesting! I don't mean any of this as an attack, of course...

I'd love to think that anyone misusing "gay" isn't actually being homophobic. But unless use of the word has been mutually deemed acceptable - I don't see how it could not be homophobic. Or at least insensitive. Or if not that, then idiotic.

You ask "Who cares?" Well let me ask you something. Imagine you've just met somebody (presumably a straight man of presumably lesser maturity). You've introduced your partner, "Hi I'm so and so", bla bla, etc. If - having not even remotely broached topics like political correctness or sexuality or whatever - that person were to casually substitute "gay" for "bad", don't you think you'd care? It may not necessarily make you angry or sad, but wouldn't you have a passing thought? Perhaps you'd feel the least bit uncomfortable?

 

[alli-berri]

Tell him he's gay.
Seriously. Everything he does, say, "Dude, that is so gay."
Do it until he can't stand it any more.
If he can use it you can use it.
You gotta be mean with mean people to survive in this world.
Fight fire with fireworks.

Lol! Hmmm...

 

[OhReally]

Try not to take it to heart. My friends are the same but I know they don't mean it. One of them even said to me a couple of weeks after I came out to them, that they would try to stop saying it but it'll take a bit of work and I shouldn't take offence to it, and I wouldn't anyway. Its funny to watch them when we play a game or something and they're like "WTF Thats so gay. Oh shit, I mean lame. Sorry Sam" and I just laugh but its awesome they make the effort. I don't see what the big deal is though, unless you know for certain he's using it purposly just to piss you off, then ignore it or say something to him if it bothers you so much.

 

[Scottyboi]

Heh I don't say it that often anymore, probably haven't said it in months. But one of my favorite quotes from Venture Bros was:

(Noun) "is *completely* gay! and this is coming from a guy who voluntarily has sex with men!

I like to use that one whenever i say it

and Alli-berri, your situations is unfortunately very different from mine. Do you know if its your sexuality they are uncomfortable with?

Or are they just uncomfortable because they are worried they might offend you? (unlikely since as you said, they are saying gay)

If its the former, which it seems it is, they do seem homophobic but are attempting to not let it get in the way of the friendship. Kind of "We like you in spite of you being gay" rather than "We like you whether your gay or not"

My initial reaction here would be to confront the issue and bring up my sexuality as much as possible and bring up theirs as well. Attempt to make it a non-issue by putting everything out in the open. But I don't necessarily know whether that would make things better because I really haven't been in your situation before =(

 

[texan_slant]

You need to tell him, otherwise, he won't know how you feel about it.

 

[hackingnomberr]

I love using the word gay as bad and as an insult.
They're two different things and it's fun to say. ;]
Some gays are just so.... So gay!
Getting sand in their vaj's about random stuff like this, it's really not that big of a deal, especially since he knows your gay which means he probably thinks nothing negative of gay people when he says it.

 

[alli-berri]

...it's really not that big of a deal, especially since he knows your gay which means he probably thinks nothing negative of gay people when he says it.

You are probably right about that. But whether or not somebody's doing so is "acceptable", depends on the moral and ethical beliefs of each individual involved.

I have the feeling he's gotten the hint that it irks me.

But honestly, I think I'm over it. stacyp hit it on the head - it's definitely a silly thing to consider the friendship unworkable for.

Hearing these other perspectives made this a much more interesting bitch fit to get over.