Straight/Married and Curious

[NYCurious]

Sorry if this is a little long, but I need help, dudes..

Looking for some advice here, seeing as I'm going through a tough time mentally. I identify as straight, but for my whole life I've been a bit "curious." I've never physically been with another man. It's hard to describe, I don't really find any guy attractive in real life, it's just sexual thoughts and porn maybe turns me on. I initially made this profile to "explore" this feeling in a safe way.

About 6 years ago I met my future wife, and when we started dating, doing this didn't make me feel bad because I didn't see it as "real." One day when I was drunk, about 5 years ago, I went to a male strip club to get a dance. I was curious if I would find it arousing. I didn't. Maybe I was drunk or it was just weird, but it wasn't the same as a woman. Still, the curiosity is still there in a fantasy-type way. It just still feels "taboo" and exciting.

We got married about two years ago. This woman is everything to me, I can't even tell you what an amazing, caring, loving girl she is. In addition to feeing guilty for still checking out girls or looking at porn, for some freaking reason the whole internet fantasy thing has really started to embarrass me...I feel ashamed. I can't decide if she needs to know, and to what extent. She knows I've went to female strip clubs before we were married, and I told her about a time where the girl got too frisky and kissed me. She completely forgave me on the spot and said it was a while ago and it doesn't matter. I don't know if this is worse, but I'm shamed.

I've been falling into a depressive pit. She knows there's some reason I feel horrible about myself. I'm starting antidepressants and looking for a professional to work this out with. She knows I think I'm not worthy of her and she keeps reassuring me we can get through anything. I'm trying to tell myself two different things: either it's not a terrible thing to admit, or there's no reason to admit it to HER, but I need to accept myself as someone who is a bit skewed across the sexual spectrum. I mean....I SHOULDN'T feel ashamed for what nature gave me as desires, but I feel what I've done is depraved and disgusting and she will find me "less of a man." Full disclosure though, she is a super liberal hippy who has no issues with anybody's sexuality or preference.

So, two part question I guess:

1) Is what I've done cheating? I know it's not "cool" but I've never done any of this stuff with guys in real life. I hate that I used to call online chatting "fantasy" and excused myself just because nobody knew who I was.

2) How do I approach this with her? Or do I approach it at all? Is there another way I should look at this?

Thank you guys for listening, it's something really important to me. I've obviously deleted my old pictures because of how bad I feel, I'm here now for some help.

 

[eastofeden]

I think the truth sets you free...always....

It isn't just telling your wife the truth.....it is telling yourself the truth that is even more important....

IMO..I don't think you have been entirely truthful with yourself but maybe you are unaware of that. For instance..I am 100% gay and love men but I would never be turned on in a male strip club....I might even think I was straight for a few minutes because my sexual interest would be an amazing zero.

As for your question about cheating...I think you have to define that for yourself and you may want to have that conversation with your wife to see if she agrees with you since it involves her as well....

 

[NYCurious]

I think the truth sets you free...always....

It isn't just telling your wife the truth.....it is telling yourself the truth that is even more important....

IMO..I don't think you have been entirely truthful with yourself but maybe you are unaware of that. For instance..I am 100% gay and love men but I would never be turned on in a male strip club....I might even think I was straight for a few minutes because my sexual interest would be an amazing zero.

As for your question about cheating...I think you have to define that for yourself and you may want to have that conversation with your wife to see if she agrees with you since it involves her as well....

Thanks man. I get what you're saying about the strip club, I guess for me since I do really enjoy dances from girls I figured maybe I'd enjoy a guy one. It's not a real indicator, I suppose.

I'm just not sure how to approach it. I can't tell if I'm more shamed that I did this at all (being married), or that I feel terrible for being sexually curious. I'm wondering if I should work on how I feel about myself first before I talk with her about it. Right now my head is so jumbled that any decision I make seems rushed, you know?

 

[eastofeden]

Thanks man. I get what you're saying about the strip club, I guess for me since I do really enjoy dances from girls I figured maybe I'd enjoy a guy one. It's not a real indicator, I suppose.

I'm just not sure how to approach it. I can't tell if I'm more shamed that I did this at all (being married), or that I feel terrible for being sexually curious. I'm wondering if I should work on how I feel about myself first before I talk with her about it. Right now my head is so jumbled that any decision I make seems rushed, you know?

It seems the shame needs to be understood a little more....we all get the gift of "shame" from society-peers-parents-church...you have alot of company....

So maybe give yourself permission to fantasize about ANYTHING you want and give yourself a time out from shame or judgement when you do....

Go as far as you like...and don't bother analyzing any of it for awhile..just experience whatever it is you think or feel.....and when you are comfortable enough allowing yourself to experience both....then you can take a closer look and understand yourself a bit more than you do now.

BTW...I don't automatically assume that a man who fantasizes about men is gay or even bi...it could represent alot of things.

 

[Seasoned]

A good therapist is a good place to start and once you start exploring your fantasies, etc it would be wise to involve your therapist as to when to open up to your wife. That's something that ought to be done, otherwise she'll imagine every possible scenario and it will make her crazy.

You're questioning and you are drawn to some type of exploration. In our mostly homophobic society we are all raised to be straight. Sexual orientation is actually on a continuum, but we weren't taught that.

I was married to a woman and have two children. I'm gay, but people right here on JUB have argued that I'm bisexual. Not the case, but it goes to show how rigid and how in need of categorizing society can be.

The main takeaway I got from your story, besides the stress it has caused, is that you refer to women as girls. I'm not sure why that's the case but that might be something to bring up in therapy. Perhaps you see females as people to take care of and perhaps that has something to do with finding men more appealing as you may see them as equals. I may be full of shit, but that came to mind when you referred to "girls."

 

[KaraBulut]

1) Is what I've done cheating? I know it's not "cool" but I've never done any of this stuff with guys in real life.

Everyone has fantasies. Even married people. There's nothing wrong or sinful with having fantasies and for many men, they have a private set of sexual fantasies that they may or may not share with their partners. As long as these fantasies aren't detracting from or replacing your real-life sexual relationship with your partner, you do not have to consider it "cheating".

The real issue here is not the fantasies or the porn or the question of cheating. The real issue here is the guilt and the way that the guilt is making you feel about yourself. That is something that is best worked out in therapy.

2) How do I approach this with her? Or do I approach it at all? Is there another way I should look at this?

This sounds like an iceberg- there's part of the iceberg that is above the water and there's part that is under the water. Until you've completely worked through these feelings/fantasies, it's not clear exactly how big this iceberg really is.

If you do get into therapy, you should tell your wife that you seeing a therapist to work through your depression. Until you have completely worked through these feelings and what they mean for your marriage, there's not much to tell her yet. But once you've gotten to the point where you've really figured out the extent of these fantasies - essentially how much of the iceberg is under the waterline- then you do need to talk with your wife about it and perhaps consider couples counseling.

 

[peeonme]

I am a married man, it will be 44 years this year. I had some sexual encounters with guys before I married, in my youth.
I had pretty much convinced myself that I was straight and I got married.

I found that the desire to be with a guy stayed with me, but I never went for it. I did have and still do have gay fantasies and attractions, along with some for women but they are rare.

I found that therapy helped me to accept all of me, the first time I said to myself "I am gay" I felt like a ton of weight had lifted from me. Then I had to make a decision, do I pursue the gay life or do I keep my commitment to my wife and family?

At the time we had been married about 25 years, I had no desire to start life over and more than anything, I love my wife.
So for me the decision was simple, if I am not acting on my desires, why share them? Why inflict pain on a person just to make myself feel better?

As for fantasies and porn, every guy masturbates and most imagine things that they would never do in real life. It's not all that uncommon for a straight guy to reflect on "that one time he messed around" with another guy.
My rule is what happens in fantasy land stays in fantasy land.

Finally, love yourself. Your self loathing is dragging you down. There is nothing wrong with you, you are a normal human being. A good therapist can help you find out why you feel the need to be perfect and will help you see that it is not an obtainable goal.
I wish you the very best.

 

[neditesjamais]

You've gotten some good responses and advice so far and I don't need to repeat it. Just, yeah, what they said.

But one particular part of your journey really resonates with me: falling into a depressive pit and starting on antidepressants. I've been dealing with both for nearly 30 years--and not completeLy successfully.

I'm glad you're getting help, both for the Questions/issues you're facing AND for the depression. In my experience, the depression is more urgent right this minute. It's a mean monster and it is relentless. Do not discount the power of depression to derail your thinking and feeling processes, making it even harder to work on the issues. That certainly has happened to me.

Above all, if your depression EVER makes you feel unsafe, tell someone immediately!

We're here and wishing you well.

Ned

 

[sixthson]

In the desire to get something off your chest, you must consider if the other person can bear that burden. It won't help much if you feel better about this if it leaves her miserable. I know you don't want that from how you've posted about her. Tread lightly and slowly.
Peeonme has some good advice and experience and I'm sure he'd be willing to talk to you privately. He's a great guy.

 

[NYCurious]

Thank you guys so much for all the kind advice. Therapy starts Saturday and I'm seeing a psychiatrist tomorrow to help handle the med situation. I've always had issues that were unresolved in general with depression and anxiety, so I guess my body is telling me it can't avoid it anymore.

I'm working on telling myself that urges are normal, but what's dragging me down most is guilt. Sharing pictures and talking online to guys (and my one lap dance) makes me feel so bad. The reason I'm terrified of telling her is because I don't know if I can bear the burden of hiding that, since it's caused me so much guilt. I know I have to consider her feelings, but if there is literally "no way out" for my feelings of guilt, how can I live like this? It's a very claustrophobic, scary feeling that makes me worry if my life has been ruined.

Then another part of me says she will love me regardless (which she has reassured me through all my depressions and other admission.). Honestly I'm less afraid of her leaving me and more afraid of her seeing me as less of a man. If I was gay, it would be one thing. But I'm not attracted to men in "real life." I only fantasize online.

Any further help would be appreciated. Thanks again, guys

 

[peeonme]

Restitution is taught as a step in a number of 12 step programs. To right wrongs. It clears our conscience and re-pays those that we owe, some cases it's just a simple "I'm sorry".
I ran in to a guy on face book that I had been mean towards in my youth. That's all I had to offer, he accepted and life moved on for both of us.

Other times, we need to realize that we are human, flawed by nature of our DNA, we all do wrong. Some debts and wrong doings we need to forgive ourselves of. Self forgiveness is an important lesson. You had one lap dance. Just one. You did not have an on going affair. Ask yourself if you would feel so guilty if it had been a straight strip club and a woman gave you the lap dance.

I think the whole gay issue is muddying the waters, if you fear that your wife would see you as less of a man, then it might be because you fear that you are less of a man. Being gay has nothing to do with your manliness. You can't be a homosexual unless you are a man.

Work this out with your therapist, try to forgive yourself if you fear that you did wrong.

 

[NYCurious]

Thanks for the words...

The concept of self-forgiveness is definitely a new one to me. I always felt like I couldn't move on until I spilled my guts out, to feel like my burden is lifted. The obsessive thought running through my head was that if I'm not telling her what I've done, then I can never move on because I'll be holding a "deep, dark" secret that I can't live with.

It was one lap dance, yes. She knows about the female dances, including one where the girl kissed me. That one made me feel terrible because it was actual physical contact. I still feel just as bad, though, with going online and sharing pictures/videos on a gay site. That's probably the one that is hurting me the most. I'm trying to tell myself it's just a fantasy world on my phone. That's why it never used to bother me. For WHATEVER reason, the last two weeks it's all come to a head and my feelings of being a bad person who needs forgiveness (even though I've been doing this for years, before I even met her).

It just feels like too dark of a secret to hide. Or is it just something to forgive myself of and move on? I never met anyone offline or on the phone or anything. I explored on chats and sites like this.

 

[peeonme]

I found that in my own life that the more I think about a problem of some kind, the larger it becomes. Also, when I verbally explained to someone what was bothering me, oddly, when spoken instead of thought upon this problem just didn't seem as large as it had when I only thought upon it.

I found that I was making monsters out of near nothing. Try to read a book, watch a good show (a comedy helps), work on a project or hobby anything that will divert your thinking and break the cycle of Rumination. The following link explains rumination:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo.../rumination-problem-in-anxiety-and-depression

Your therapy starts Saturday, please listen to your therapist and let him/her help you.