Submissive straight guy contemplating bottoming for a BDSM Dom/Master

[wants2bfem]

I'm a straight submissive guy that's probably going to be bottoming for a dominate gay Dom or Master. I'd like some advice on how to prepare & protect myself and how to make it as pleasurable for him as possible. This would be a long term situation, probably at least 6 months. I've decided I want to try BDSM submissive training & most likely that will include bottoming. I've never had sex with a guy before, but have played with toys years ago. My main concern is putting my best effort into being the best sub possible. From what I've read, barebacking is the norm in those circles. Loaning partners is also common. A good sub doesn't have too many limits. Once collared, I will feel obligated to please my Dom/Master. I don't want to risk my health, but I want to be taken seriously. Besides asking for test results & for condom use, what can I do? I can't make him/them use a condom. How reliable are recent negative test results? How can a bottom make the top feel the best, even if his is not enjoying it at all?

 

[borg69unimatrix]

Just out of curiosity, why do you want to do this? I could maybe see trying it once out of curiosity, but a 6 month commitment seems very extreme.

 

[KaraBulut]

It sounds like you may need to do a bit more investigation to find the right situation for you. Most BDSM enthusiasts are very safe when it comes to the issue of body fluids. Because of the amount of piss, blood and semen that can be involved, condoms, gloves and other barriers are generally used. And there's an up-front agreement about certain activities like anal sex, as well as a safe word for ending situations that are too extreme or too intense.

 

[wants2bfem]

Just out of curiosity, why do you want to do this? I could maybe see trying it once out of curiosity, but a 6 month commitment seems very extreme.

As I mentioned, I'm looking to learn & hopefully reprogram my brain to be as truly submissive as possible. I think the TPE (total power exchange) experience that BDSM can provide, would be the best way to achieve this. I want to sub under one experienced Dom or Master who is willing to invest the time & effort into training me. Someone who takes their role and responsibilites as a trainer & mentor very seriously. I need to take my role & responsibilities seriously as well. I've thought about this for a long time. The usual sub contract is for 6 months to one year. A 24/7 live in arrangement is the most effective for training. I can wrap my mind around the non sexual service stuff, like doing all the chores & cleaning. I'm having trouble with the sexual service part. It's hard for me to imagine being the object of sexual desire for a man & giving him my body. How do you have sex with someone you are not attracted to & at the same time make that sex as good for him as possible? I'm not a promiscuous person & as this would be a relationship (even though I wouldn't have any physical attraction to him) of sorts, I'd rather build trust with one person, rather than with many for shorter terms.

It sounds like you may need to do a bit more investigation to find the right situation for you. Most BDSM enthusiasts are very safe when it comes to the issue of body fluids. Because of the amount of piss, blood and semen that can be involved, condoms, gloves and other barriers are generally used. And there's an up-front agreement about certain activities like anal sex, as well as a safe word for ending situations that are too extreme or too intense.

That's reassuring & hopefully I've been misinformed. I'm aware of things like checklists, limits & safe words, but a sub with too much of that is not as valued as one with less. I'm already at a disadvantage due to my age & orientation. I'm going to be selective as possible when choosing a Dom or Master to sub under.

 

[KaraBulut]

...That's reassuring & hopefully I've been misinformed. I'm aware of things like checklists, limits & safe words, but a sub with too much of that is not as valued as one with less. I'm already at a disadvantage due to my age & orientation. I'm going to be selective as possible when choosing a Dom or Master to sub under.

You might network with leather and BDSM social groups in your area before you get too far into this. There's a difference between someone who is part of the dom-sub community and someone who is an abuser. While these dom-sub relationships come in all flavors, there is a difference between role play and the kind of commitment that you're talking about.

It definitely sounds like you need to do more exploration with male-male sexuality before you make the commitment that you're proposing.

 

[wants2bfem]

You might network with leather and BDSM social groups in your area before you get too far into this. There's a difference between someone who is part of the dom-sub community and someone who is an abuser. While these dom-sub relationships come in all flavors, there is a difference between role play and the kind of commitment that you're talking about.

It definitely sounds like you need to do more exploration with male-male sexuality before you make the commitment that you're proposing.

Yes, that seems to be the hard part, finding the right person to sub to. Everything in the BDSM world seems to be on the honor system. How do you check a Dom or Master's credentials? Is it acceptable to ask for references to contact? Do Doms & Masters vouch for ones they know are legit? I'm not looking for a few hours of role play. I'm assuming I will have time before a contract is signed to back out, if I can't handle it. Once a contract is signed, I will do my best to follow it. In for a penny, in for a pound.

I have no desire to experiment with male on male sex. If an experienced Dom or Master decides that sex is to be used as a training tool, that's OK with me, as long as I'm not topping. Looking to have sex with a male, just to see how it feels does not make sense to me. I've had toys in my ass before, so I get the general idea of what it will feel like. Seeking out sex only from a male would make me bi.

 

[KaraBulut]

Yes, that seems to be the hard part, finding the right person to sub to. Everything in the BDSM world seems to be on the honor system.

Most major cities have BDSM social groups. Because there is a structure, rules and safety practices around BDSM, it is something that you need to educate yourself and network with others about if you're going to move beyond just the amateur level.

There's also workshops that you can attend- for example, Kink.com in San Francisco has a series of tours, demonstrations and workshops that are very good. Their website also features videos on all variations of the BDSM culture (which in San Francisco, includes a lot of lesbian and straight people).

 

[Harke the Boeotarch]

How old are you, wants2bfem? You mention you never had sex with men, did you ever have sex with females?
Why do you think BDSM is for you? What do you hope to get out of it that you couldn't get by, say, joining the Army?

 

[wants2bfem]

Most major cities have BDSM social groups. Because there is a structure, rules and safety practices around BDSM, it is something that you need to educate yourself and network with others about if you're going to move beyond just the amateur level.

There's also workshops that you can attend- for example, Kink.com in San Francisco has a series of tours, demonstrations and workshops that are very good. Their website also features videos on all variations of the BDSM culture (which in San Francisco, includes a lot of lesbian and straight people).

Thanks for the links. Do you recommend going to a munch or a party for a first step? Should I just walk up to members at one of those & explain what I'm looking for? It seems that most of the Doms or Masters that show an interest in me are into the leather scene. Do you know of an active gay leather forum, that I can get some advice from? It seems many of the Doms & Masters are very pushy in wanting to have me sub for them, without even meeting in a safe public place first. This is not something I want to jump into without research. Another thing is every one of them who Ive talked to has claimed they have trained straight subs before, yet there's nothing real online about that.

How old are you, wants2bfem? You mention you never had sex with men, did you ever have sex with females?
Why do you think BDSM is for you? What do you hope to get out of it that you couldn't get by, say, joining the Army?

Mid 40s. Yes I've had sex with females, with no issues. I've been curious about it since reading the Story of O many years ago & watching some BDSM related videos on the old H666. I've been down the military route, even before I was 18. The closest that would be is during basic training. It's done in an aggressive manner & you are "subbing" to an institution or system, not a person. The officers above you are just symbols of that system. The military teaches obidence, but with aggression, not submissiveness. To me, a sub should be in tune with the person or people they are under, not their weapon, equipment, etc. I guess I see being a submissive as a form of femininity, as you're existence is supposed to be about putting others needs above yours.

 

[Benvolio]

By all means, experiment some before you find yourself in a long term situation you may hate but have trouble getting out of. Your fantasies may turn out to be far removed from the reality. The best evidence is your fantasy that you are a straight man who wants to be used by a gay master for a long time. That inconsistency is little shy of impossible.

 

[KaraBulut]

Thanks for the links. Do you recommend going to a munch or a party for a first step? Should I just walk up to members at one of those & explain what I'm looking for? It seems that most of the Doms or Masters that show an interest in me are into the leather scene.

Start by observing and learning. Workshops are a great place to learn and network. Find someone who is an experienced sub and ask them for pointers. Then find someone who is an experienced dom and talk with them.

Approach this like you would swimming. First you sit on the sidelines and watch. Then you want to take lessons, get your feet and get your water wings before you take the plunge.

There are also online communities where you can ask questions but because of the complexities of safe BDSM, you want to learn from a neutral, experienced person and that's where workshops are beneficial.

 

[bankside]

I have no desire to experiment with male on male sex. If an experienced Dom or Master decides that sex is to be used as a training tool, that's OK with me, as long as I'm not topping. Looking to have sex with a male, just to see how it feels does not make sense to me. I've had toys in my ass before, so I get the general idea of what it will feel like. Seeking out sex only from a male would make me bi.

Seeking out a submissive relationship open to a sexual component will also mean you are bi.

Before you do this I'd challenge you to consider whether this complicated scenario is a way of getting into a sexual situation with a guy without having to admit to the gayness of it all.

When I was 19 and in the closet, I thought about men sexually all the time but I had a million reasons that "proved" I was straight.

• it is just curiosity about other guys so no gayness here
• every guy experiments
• if you experiment it doesn't make you gay
• i touched a booby therefore odds are i'm not gay
• i thought of fucking a guy but it was while i was touching a booby so it's not gay
• when i was a kid i remember being turned on by the naked woman poster at the back of the poster shop, and no amount of jacking off every day to magazine covers of hot guys since then can take that away from me, because I'm straight and that was a boob. a real female boob on a real pin-up poster. And I was turned on. By poster-boob. And the pictures of the reproductive system in my health text book. And sofa cushions. But that's not important now. i'm straight.
• it's not gay if I don't actually cum
• it's not gay if he cums but I didn't, because only gay guys are turned on enough to cum with another guy
• did i mention the booby?

These weren't reasons that proved I was straight, these were excuses to stop me from admitting i was into guys, because I didn't want to deal with the aftermath of that.

This whole scenario of seeking out a situation where you sexually service someone willingly for multiple months yet still somehow manage to remain straight, reaaaaly seems like a reality distortion field turned up to max. I know it well from my own youth.

But assuming for a second you are a 100% heterosexual guy, you would be in the same position of many gay guys who have been with women while being in the closet. You'd be faking it, while not into it.

It is not satisfying for the person in the closet. And it is not satisfying for the person sleeping with someone who isn't in the closet.

What's the end game here? After six months you get cut loose and you go on to have a hetero relationship with a woman? What kind of kinks do you look for in a woman? Why not go straight to that scenario and learn how to submit to her?

 

[wants2bfem]

KaraBulut: thanks for the info.

Bankside: Interesting points, I'll have to give some thought to. How can a guy be bi or gay, if he has zero (& I do mean non at all) attraction to any guys at all? I only glance at female legs & asses that walk by. The closest would be having occasional homoerotic porn based fantasies, with me taking the place of the girl in boy/girl scenes. I think I'm more attracted to the act, then the person. I've heard that having homoerotic fantasy does not equal being gay. No offense, but guys turn me off & I don't understand how gay people & girls are attracted to them. I don't even want to be a member of the male "race". If I could go back & switch my gender in the womb, I would.

My sexual satisfaction in a situation like that doesn't matter, only my Dom or Master's. If the sex wouldn't be enjoyable for a gay Dom or Master topping a straight sub, why would they want to do it?

My goal is to try my best to remove any form of dominance or masculinity from my brain, if that's possible after the effects of social conditioning, hormones or whatever causes mental gender differences when growing up. Yes, I know not all males are masculine or all females are feminine.

I'd love to find a feminine, yet Dom (not masculine) female who is looking for a real submissive guy & maybe down the road, a very effeminate or even a trans one. Not easy to find a Domme or Mistress who is willing to train someone like me. Most Dommes or Mistresses are only attracted to Alpha Males, like most other women are. Many are fed up dealing with bogus subs. There's not a big market for sub guys who want to switch genders. None of the girls I've been with want anything other than the traditional gender roles, besides a bit of play.

 

[Harke the Boeotarch]

Thanks for the links. Do you recommend going to a munch or a party for a first step? Should I just walk up to members at one of those & explain what I'm looking for? It seems that most of the Doms or Masters that show an interest in me are into the leather scene. Do you know of an active gay leather forum, that I can get some advice from? It seems many of the Doms & Masters are very pushy in wanting to have me sub for them, without even meeting in a safe public place first. This is not something I want to jump into without research. Another thing is every one of them who Ive talked to has claimed they have trained straight subs before, yet there's nothing real online about that.



Mid 40s. Yes I've had sex with females, with no issues. I've been curious about it since reading the Story of O many years ago & watching some BDSM related videos on the old H666. I've been down the military route, even before I was 18. The closest that would be is during basic training. It's done in an aggressive manner & you are "subbing" to an institution or system, not a person. The officers above you are just symbols of that system. The military teaches obidence, but with aggression, not submissiveness. To me, a sub should be in tune with the person or people they are under, not their weapon, equipment, etc. I guess I see being a submissive as a form of femininity, as you're existence is supposed to be about putting others needs above yours.

Good. You seem to have ample emotional maturity to undertake this adventure. However, I'm less sure about your appreciation of your feelings for men. You say that you see submission as a form of femininity, but femininity is often completely absent from male-male top-bottom interactions. Is it possible that you are translating confusing feelings into concepts you're familiar with?

 

[wants2bfem]

Good. You seem to have ample emotional maturity to undertake this adventure. However, I'm less sure about your appreciation of your feelings for men. You say that you see submission as a form of femininity, but femininity is often completely absent from male-male top-bottom interactions. Is it possible that you are translating confusing feelings into concepts you're familiar with?

I can assure you that it's not about any feelings or attraction to a male. Submission experience/training s the only thing I'm looking for from a male. Although not a females are submissive, that trait is usually associated with femininity. I'm also only talking about a BDSM Dom/Master & sub relationship, not the usual one.

 

[wants2bfem]

Another reason I forgot to mention that I'm planning to do this is this way, is to keep it as "pure" as possible. I don't want to develop feelings or sexual attraction to a female Domme/Mistress. I don't want that possible distraction.

 

[EJMichaels]

Others here, especially KaraBulut, have made extremely important points that I don't need to repeat. Re-read them.

On the bi matter -- I think it's possible to have male-to-male sex in a BDSM context without adopting the bi label. Sure, it's technically bi by most definitions, but if done only to serve a dom, I'd be willing to call you some flavor of straight. It sort of makes sense to want to submit to someone you wouldn't find sexually attractive because of gender. My male sub talks about that (usually in the context of prison fantasies). Over 6 months, it might become difficult to maintain, but I can't really say. One advantage of BDSM is its complexity and the potential to separate various elements.

On the fem matter -- you've got some issues to sort out about submissiveness and femininity. I'm not sure what to say about that now other than it may not serve you well.

 

[wants2bfem]

Updating this thread if that's ok.

The 1st "Master" I spoke to turned out to be a liar. I cut contact with him before any meeting took place. Since then I've been patiently doing research, thinking a lot & chatting to some Doms & Masters online. I decided that I'm going to chase my fantasy as much as possible. This course (interracial) will limit my candidates. I've got 2 categories left to decide: sissy submission, which further limits the SIR pool & my non passable (at least to me) status. The passing thing is about my cowardice & my opinion that cding while obviously unpassable can be view as making a mockery of women. Another issue is the sissy route may not be as pure submission, as it's kinda like something I want to do, but don't have the guts. I don't want to crossdress like a sissy, but how most women normally do, except more dresses and skirts.

The other category is normal IR gay BDSM, which makes finding a good SIR easier.

I found a Master that seems promising. I actually sent him my noods o.0 He makes me feel like a slut just by how he seems to be so attracted to me. He's gonna call me tomorrow. I hope he's not a BSer or seemingly crazy, like ones I contacted before.

Here's a question that's been stewing with me for awhile. Can a straight guy really fall in love with a gay guy? I mean the intense head over heels love that happen in new relationships. If so, then does that make him bi or gay? I've been reading up on MORs & some feel it can happen. I can understand why so man bi or gay guys fall for a straight guy due to their natural attraction to a male. I can't visualize how that can work where the gender doesn't aline with their attraction standard. Any ideas?

 

[wants2bfem]

Sorry I missed the edit cutoff time.

A big reason I'm asking the "can a straight guy fall in love with a gay man" question is because more than a few Doms & Masters have mentioned that. They make it sound like BDSM has the power to switch someone's orientation. It seems like a BDSM fairytale: Str8 guy subs to gay SIR & falls in love with him & they live happily ever after as SIR & slave. I can see some type of Hurst/Stockholm bonding happening, but not romantic love.

 

[KaraBulut]

Sorry I missed the edit cutoff time.

A big reason I'm asking the "can a straight guy fall in love with a gay man" question is because more than a few Doms & Masters have mentioned that. They make it sound like BDSM has the power to switch someone's orientation. It seems like a BDSM fairytale: Str8 guy subs to gay SIR & falls in love with him & they live happily ever after as SIR & slave. I can see some type of Hurst/Stockholm bonding happening, but not romantic love.

Something to think about:
There's a tendency to simplify sexuality into buckets like "gay" and "straight" because that's easiest for us to understand. From what we know about human sexuality, very few people fall into the absolute categories of gay and straight. Everyone has some attractions in both directions but that doesn't mean that they necessarily ever acknowledge them or act upon them (at least in a sexual way).

The fact that you're pursuing having sex with a man means that you're in that gray area between 100% straight and 100% gay. So, no one is going to "turn" you. They may, however, put you in a situation where you have to admit something about yourself that you haven't pursued or explored until now.