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That lovely place in life

hvk1989

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I've only just joined, but thought I would share where I currently am for anyone to offer insights (sorry about the length---perhaps I should post it as a blog). . .

I grew up in a very conservative, religious family and attended a small Christian university in west Texas followed by a larger Christian university for post-graduate degrees. The views on homosexuality of those around me were, to say the least, not positive. Since I was 12, I've always been more attracted to guys more than girls. While my friends watched the Dukes of Hazzard for scenes with Daisy, I watched it for scenes of Bo (anyone remember John Eric Hexum?). Given my family, background and time (there was no Internet and no forums), I eventually convinced myself I would always be alone. As a result, I've never dated anyone or had any sort of remotely intimate relationship (yes, see age=sad or pathetic, I haven't decided which). Until this summer, I had reached a sort of detante with myself---I would privately explore such feelings, but never openly admit to myself I was gay, never admit it to others or go out to any gay establishments (I think that may be the epitome of repression). Since I was never really interested in girls and constantly found myself noticing guys when I would occasionally go to bars with my male friends, it meant I never did the regular bar scene.

Fast forward to this summer--I went on a landscape/nature photography trip to Iceland. Before arriving in Reykjavik, I stopped off at several European cities, including Stockholm. I enjoy night photography and while shooting Stockholm one evening, I suddenly realized the streets were void of sound but for the sound of my camera's shutter. I suddenly had the feeling of being quite alone and didn't care for it too much. I decided then that I really enjoyed traveling with someone and no longer wanted to live alone--even though some part of me knew what that meant. Reykjavik had their gay pride parade the first weekend I was there. Loads of people came in for it, including some guys at the guesthouse in which I was staying. Two of the guys (30 and 32) have been together for 8.5 years. I asked a few questions regarding what they were doing in town, etc. After three of them left the kitchen, one of the guys stayed behind and visited with me. He asked me a question in a way no one else had--he asked if I was part of "the family" followed by asking if I liked guys more than girls. At other times in my life I would have chuckled, looked away and said no--I didn't this time--I shrugged my shoulders (well, it was better than immediately denying it). He was somewhat surprised and perhaps intrigued by my response and started relaying the story of him and his partner. After about 30 seconds, I decided to actually be honest with someone about who I am because of his seemingly genuine interest and sincerity and told him that yes, I liked guys more than girls, etc. Little did I know the tectonic shift such a conversation and subsequent conversations with all of them and emails with the two would have on me. I no longer want to repress the nature of who I've known I am but am now faced with serious family, friend and church challenges--I am active in my church and all the people with whom I hang out with are from church--on the conservative end of the spectrum--challenges some of which the guys I met are still going through (family acceptance) but initially faced in their early 20s. They told me one of the things that helped them were on-line forums where they were able share experiences with others going through the same thing. Someone in another forum told me about this one so I've visited for a few days and decided to join.

Now I find myself up late at night (this is a good example) wondering where to go/what to do next. I've gone to a local gay bar the last several weeks just looking for guys to hang out with--I thought it would help to actually have some people in town that I know who are gay and with whom I can visit. While I've met some who are very understanding and nice, there are a few who I think see me as a piece of meat. Now, I certainly have nothing against the right guy thinking of me as a piece of meat. . . oooh, I digress. . . but would like input and interaction from others other than five hours on a friday night. I mean no offense to any of those guys just in case they visit here, it's just sorta where I'm at.
 
You are right where you need to be in life. Keep looking forward with no regrets. The past is over and can't be changed. Congratulate yourself on your new found self-acceptance. Take whatever course you wish to take regarding sexual activity. It sounds like you'd like to make friends and talk about life and coming out issues. Keep in mind that even in your church circle there are other gay guys. They may be deep in the closet, or perhaps felt compelled to move away, but every day there is some kid struggling just like you (and I) did. You'll have to decide how to move on the home front, but you are entitled to all that life has to offer you. PM me anytime.
 
Thanks for the comments soreknees (luv the name btw). Indeed, I would like to make friends and visit about life and coming out issues. Surely you're not implying I didn't make that clear in my original post. ;) I tend to get lost in streams of consciousness rather than stating things more directly, which is why I think I'm going to blog about some them--it helps me get everything in the open, no pun intended.

On a more direct line, I don't recall another point in time in my life in which the future and what to do next have filled me with such anxiety. I am constantly being torn by two competing forces--one is the feeling that I'm on a speeding train of needing to no longer lie to friends and family around me and the other is my assumption of their reaction if I do tell them. It frightens me greatly and friends and support right now would be greatly appreciated.
 
Well hvk1989, there is a family of sorts here, and Welcome to JUB.

Most of the regulars who post here won't steer you wrong.

You're in a very special place right now.

Your heart is beginning to recognize something that it longs for.

If you're like me, where I was in that time in my life, you're probably feeling a sense of betrayal.

That you would some how be betraying those who love you, while at the same time feeling like you'd be betraying your heart if you didn't allow yourself to follow it.

From what you've shared in two posts, you sound like a pretty solid guy to me.

Is there anyone in your life, maybe just one person, that you think that you might have the courage to share these feelings with?

A friend, a trusted adviser, a confidant? Someone within your circle?

The guys who regularly post in this forum can be pretty objective, and sometimes just flat out brutally honest.

I believe that we all deserve to be happy.

It's a human right that each of us are inherently born with.

I've also discovered that if we're going to wait around for someone to give us that happiness, we may have to wait for a long time.

Open your heart just a little bit more, and I trust that you'll find that the happiness that you're seeking has been all around you the whole time, you just haven't been ready for it yet. (*8*)
 
I am proud of you for reaching this point. It is a different process for everybody. I didn't "figure it out" until I was 27. Back in the day, there were no gay-straight student alliances and kids weren't declaring themselves gay at the tender age of 12. But, I figure I came out when the time was right for me. The same is true for you. As anxiety-provoking as your position is, I am also very excited and extremely happy for you. You have reached a VERY lovely place in your life. That guy you met wasn't joking when he asked if you are family. You are now part of a larger family that already knows a great deal about you because of the common experience of coming to terms with being gay, lesbian or bisexual, etc. I think you'll find the people here very supportive. Please let us know how we can help.
 
hvk1989 - I live in North Dallas and grew up in Tulsa OK, Southern Baptist, dad was a deacon and Sunday School director - it doesn't get much more "conservative" than that - so I know where you are coming from. As the others have said, you are living life at this moment and you should embrace this. Also, you don't have to think of your "coming out" as a blow the doors off experience. You can let a few people know slowly and do it in your own way. I slowly told people I trusted and it was a very good experience for me.

The best thing you can do, in my opinion, is to take the highest road possible and EDUCATE PEOPLE. You have the opportunity to change many peoples prospectives of what gay is. I did not have ONE bad experience from all the church people. Many found out through the grapevine, but they all were very accepting. Some asked some questions and I believe they have a much better understanding that I am this way and it's not a choice. Believe it or not, my sister is the most skeptical, but my partner (of 12 years) and I believe her son is gay - so she's going to have a eye opening experience at some point most likely.

As far as a social life, bars are tough in Dallas sometimes. I hear a lot of complaints. I have some good friends and go with them. There are many organizations and groups to meet other people. I am also an advocate of online dating - perhaps just look for friends and who knows. You can post on gay.com, match.com, many other sites and explain that you just want friends and your situation. You may find someone in the very same space.

You sound like a great guy - if you ever want to grab a cup of coffee, shoot me a pm.

Good luck and enjoy this journey - it's something you will never experience again, while scary, you will look back on it and see that you will truly have "grown up" and accepted a lot more than who you are.

Jeff
 
That you would some how be betraying those who love you, while at the same time feeling like you'd be betraying your heart if you didn't allow yourself to follow it.

Yes, it's that and more. To my knowledge, there's one other family member I know of who was gay--a great-uncle. He was murdered in the late 60s so I never knew him. I don't know if his murder had to do with his sexuality or not--I only know his killers (hitchhikers) didn't like him much--shot him 9 times with a 6 round revolver :twisted:. His homosexuality was such a point of embarrassment for my family that I didn't even know his name or that he even existed until I was 21 or 22--I guess my grandmother thought I was old enough to handle it by then--my great-grandmother (his mother) never even mentioned his name and she was a bit senile during her final years. I think there's only one picture of him kept my anyone in my family and that was because he was pictured in my grandparent's wedding. I have a great amount of fear that the same fate may befall me--after all, I work with and for my brother and my family is quite close-- but on the other hand, I shouldn't let the circle of unknown possibilities keep me from letting people know who I am, from meeting similarly situated guys and from, hopefully one day, meeting a guy with whom I can live out my days [hvk1989 glances around for lightening bolts striking his house. . . hears none so continues]. And then the whole religious thing, but that's for later I think.


Is there anyone in your life, maybe just one person, that you think that you might have the courage to share these feelings with?

I've thought about that quite a lot lately because I've been trading emails with the partnered couple in Austria. I figure it's the next "big step" in the process (I feel like I'm pledging all over again--a process others have gone through though no two are quite the same. . . I either find it oddly funny or rather pathetic). There are three possibilities and I'm thinking of going with the path of least negative consequences. Would that be a good approach or bad approach? I'm getting more and more certain that I'll tell a former colleague this Friday evening. A former co-worker of both of us is getting married Friday in Houston. When we all worked at the same accounting firm, a group of us guys did some traveling together and the one guy and I traveled to Spain and later to Germany/Austria. Other than the fact he might have a big mouth (get your mind out of the gutter--not that kind of big mouth), I think his response will be "hmmm, interesting". . . or he'll tell me he's also gay (I've always suspected but we've never talked about because I don't think I would have been honest with him previously since I wasn't even honest with myself). I don't think he'll run away waiving his arms. The other is a cousin who is only six months younger than me and more like a sister to me. The final one is a lady with whom I work with at church that is a fairly free thinking, independent person. I think if I could tell her without her slapping me silly, I might have a chance. But I'm afraid that her initial reaction may be trumped by our religious beliefs. So in order of comfortableness, my thinking is former co-worker, cousin, and church person. If anyone has made it this far, does that sound reasonable? :confused: oohh, am I getting into too much drama, sorry.


That guy you met wasn't joking when he asked if you are family.

You are quite right and I've thanked him for the manner in which he asked the question because had he not asked me in the manner in which he asked, I'd be on my laptop watching gay porn now instead of writing lengthy response posts trying to cope with coming out. hmmm, gay porn. . coming out. . . such difficult decisions ;)
 
welcome. it's go to participate rather than spectate. glad you're making a change for the better.
 
Jeff, you posted while I was pounding out the last post so I guess it becomes a two parter. Little did I know I would be laying out part of my religious issue so soon ;)

it doesn't get much more "conservative" than that

[thick dose of sarcasm with the next sentence] Have you ever played poker (I prefer blackjack) and thought you had a winning hand only to be one-upped by an even better hand? For those who read this and who are familiar with the various denominations in the USA, the following might make sense, for the "high church" guys throughout the world, I don't know if it'll make sense or not. . . I am fourth generation Church of Christ (not to be confused with the Boston Movement---I'm with the C of C that split from the Disciples of Christ back in 1906 and only recently (probably the 1980s) accepted divorced people into mainstream church-life (sad, I know)). My grandfather was an elder at a local church from the early 1950s until the day he died. While he originally attended one small church in southern Fort Worth, he was a founding member of another church slightly more centrally located. My parents were also founding members of this new church and were part of the original group that guaranteed the note (my father was a deacon). I've attended church my entire life with the last 28 at the same one--ever since undergrad I attended not because of my parents or that I felt I had to, but wanted to---it was and is my own religion. I co-lead the audio/video ministry at the church in which I attend (it's a volunteer job--I am not paid staff so I at least have that going for me :-) ), my mother helps in the nursery and my father helps with the "courtesy" patrol.

Jeff, I know you put your religious background on your post not as something with which to be compared but to let me know you feel my anxiety and can relate--I appreciate it. I put mine above just so guys can actually know from what religious background I come. I like the idea of going slow. I'm not the type of guy to stand and greet people at the door snapping my finger in a circle saying" hi-ya, I'm gay. . . what's that. . no, gay's not my name, it's what I am." While I would take great inward pleasure at their reaction, it's just not the right way to approach things, IMO.

My ultimate issue though, assuming I get through coming out to friends and family is what my own religion and religious beliefs tell me about being gay (cue the beginning to well up with tears)--it tells me it's wholly and completely wrong and yet I know or at least feel I never consciously made the choice back in seventh grade to be gay or straight (insert monty python skit--breast or penis for you sir. . . hmmm, I'll take penis, please). It wasn't like that at all. I still remember the guy and his name that first caught my eye. I remember thinking what a terrible, awful person I must be that looking at him would cause odd things to happen to me. That I would find myself noticing guys in places before girls. I don't feel that I chose to do any of those things, they just happened because that's who I am. So, my religion says it's wrong and yet I don't feel as if I had a choice in the matter---which (and here's the sticky part)---the analytical side of me says the choice is in actually doing something about it (as in joining this forum and taking the actions I've taken thus far). I'm so exceedingly emotional and confused over the whole religious thing, I don't think I can coherently express it (this assumes I've coherently expressed anything so far). Since I am getting more and more comfortable with letting people around me know I'm gay, I really feel I should resign my position at church--if only to spare it yet another scandal (yes, I know, I'm presuming it will be a scandal, but I have great difficulty seeing how it wouldn't be a scandal). I just don't know. :confused:

I have comments on your social life thoughts, but I'll hold off on those--I feel like my responses are getting a tad long-winded--and I'm really emotionally spent at the moment. While this is the thread I started, I don't want to run guys off with my. . . umm. . . verbosity. That's why I keep saying I should blog my thoughts--then the thread wouldn't be so long ..|
 
You may just find that your religion is wrong about a few things as you get older. This may be the first of many revelations about it. Doesn't mean it's all wrong, but with your analysis skills clearly displayed here, you are going to find other challenges with your faith as you become wiser.

Look forward to the development of this with you.

Jeff
 
Welcome to JUB. Congrats on your first post.

Well, you have two things that are going on here.

  1. A coming out process.
  2. A crisis of faith.

The church has become a big part of your life. It's connected to your family, your friends, your education and your social life. But it's also something that has become something that has prevented you from discovering who you really are and it has kept you isolated from finding the companionship that is part of a healthy, happy life.

The irony is that you're living very near two of the biggest gay evangelical churches in the US:
Cathedral of Hope
White Rock Community Church

It's time you took a trip to these churches to find out if there is a second home for you there. You will find a lot of people who grew up COC, DOC, COG and SBC in these churches who have kept their religious beliefs but who have chosen a more tolerant church. If you chose to attend there, you might find that your family would also feel at home there... but that's going to take a while.

coming out. hmmm, gay porn. . coming out. . . such difficult decisions

The two are uniquely connected. And often one is the catalyst for the other. And that's not a bad thing at all.
 
Myself, and my more Evangelical straight friends have found some answers, and some comfort here:

www.godmademegay.com

Letter to Louise.

It's quite a read, but worth it.

Check it out. (*8*)

As to which of the three that you're contemplating coming out too, I'd go with the most sure thing; the one that you feel that you'd feel the most comfortable knowing.
 
Hvk, welcome! :wave:

I haven't come totally out yet. It's like i have one foot out of the closet, and the rest of me is still hiding. I'm so close, yet so far. You're not alone here, but you already know that. There's alot of us that are in similar situations. We're all riding in the same big gay boat with no captain...sailing into the unknown...wow..that was deep huh? lol

Oh and hey..i'm into photography too. It kind of gets me away from everything. That and good music helps as well.

I've been thinking of meditating too. I hear it's good for the mind, body and soul.
 
Well, you have two things that are going on here.
A coming out process.
A crisis of faith.

I think you hit the proverbial nail on the head, KaraBulut. Either one is stressful for me and thinking about/working through both concurrently gets quite mentally taxing for me (that's one of the reasons I'm here on the big gay boat (good analogy ace)). In fact, that's why I think coming out first to a friend who is not affiliated with my church and my cousin who doesn't attend church seems like a good approach; it helps me focus on the coming out issues without short-circuiting by adding the church issues at the same time.

But I certainly realize I must face my faith issues.
You may just find that your religion is wrong about a few things as you get older
Oh my, I stopped taking at "face value" the things I had historically been taught at church during my years in undergraduate/post-graduate studies (it's the whole making your faith your own and not the faith of your parents thing--I just missed/skipped the chapter on homosexuality--oops, and I'm paying for it now ;) ). Occasionally, I'd get into discussions with a couple of my baptist classmates in post-graduate schools. My answer would usually be, well, this is the historical CofC response to that issue, but I think it's a silly view and, IMO, isn't a real "core" faith issue. There are many things the CofC handled horribly in the past and still has ways to go on others. However,--and this is what troubles and concerns me the most--if I pull back the curtain and peer into my heart as far as what I currently believe to be true from a faith perspective regarding the path down which I've chosen to start (as opposed to to knowing you're on the path at its beginning and thinking you'll be fine never going down it--and I do think there is a difference--and yet watching/having gay porn and other things in the privacy of one's home I was ok with--very odd detente I had with myself indeed!), I believe, from a faith perspective, it is wrong. And that saddens and depresses me greatly. It is that core issue that I must ultimately come to my own terms with before I come out to anyone at church (except maybe the lady who would be my first "church" friend).

So, yes,
it has kept you isolated from finding the companionship that is part of a healthy, happy life.
KaraBulut, I agree with that observation wholeheartedly. It's pretty much THE reason I decided to honestly answer Rafael's question in Iceland--I realized in Stockholm while taking pictures that I was alone from a personal relationship perspective and started realizing what a big part of my life was and is still incomplete and wholly foreign to me because I never experienced any of it with a female, on any level (and obviously haven't with a guy yet since this is the coming out thread). When I saw how happy, intimate and comfortable Rafael and Hannes (they don't mind if I use their names. . . I asked in another context) were with each other in front of a stranger (we hadn't visited and they didn't know I was gay), I saw in them and their example that it was possible for guys to not only find happiness (and for them long-term happiness) with one another but to comfortably and openly show their intimacy with each other. Seeing their example and having Rafael visit with me and broach the topic as he did caused the "not-so-happy" peace I long ago established with myself to crumble.

If you chose to attend there, you might find that your family would also feel at home there
I would never expect or ask my parents to attend a church other than the one they currently attend. We live 15 miles or so apart from each other--and what a wonderful 15 miles it is! For me, I certainly appreciate the web sites and will check them out, but it seems to me as if that's faith shopping. The larger faith issue for me at the moment (temporarily ignoring the coming out issues--I was never one for doing the simple things in life ;) ) is my own, personal belief. Being somewhere where I feel accepted and not as an outcast, while definitely important, is something that should be secondary to my primary issue--which, unfortunately, is me. Wow, does any of my rambling make sense??

Centex, thanks for the hugs.
It's quite a read, but worth it.
Really, quite a read you say. . . have you read any of my posts. :p

Ace, thanks for the howdy. I've been reluctant to post on anyone else's thread who seems so similarly situated to me because I wouldn't have anything to offer, but I see now that's a rather silly thing of me to do--we are all on the same big boat and we have each other, which is kinda why we're here. (*8*)
 
KaraBulut said:
If you chose to attend there, you might find that your family would also feel at home there

hvk1989 said:
I would never expect or ask my parents to attend a church other than the one they currently attend. We live 15 miles or so apart from each other--and what a wonderful 15 miles it is! For me, I certainly appreciate the web sites and will check them out, but it seems to me as if that's faith shopping.

I know of both of these churches and I have been to services at both. The reason I recommend them is not their theology (which like many UCC churches, is a bit nebulous at times) but because of their community. It's one of the few places in Dallas where you can meet lots of gay people without drugs, alcohol and attitude. And there is a real sense of community there- much like the church that you are attending today.

Since you are very active in your church, I wouldn't suggest you change to a new church. But I would recommend that you attend a service at more gay-friendly churches- it will be an eye-opener for you.

These churches are a bit huggy-feely (like many of the noveau evangelical churches tend to be) but they are also very family-friendly. One thing that I have found on the issue of parents is that they are more afraid of what they don't know. You may reach a point someday where the best solution to your parent's anxiety over your immortal soul is to introduce them to your gay friends and to churches that have more liberal viewpoints on gay issues.
 
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