Trying to help my friend with his sexuality

[Georgiadude]

I have a friend that is struggling with his sexuality. He is young and comes from a very strong southern Baptist background. He initially told me he was gay (which I really think he is) but because of his family and religion can't get himself to accept it. We had a fairly long discussion yesterday and he said he felt that he was "choosing" to be "like this" and that he wasn't sure if in a year or two he would still feel the same way. He is very active in his church and said he feels like he is lying to everyone and at times even felt "dirty" because of it. He had spoken to 1 person in his church about it and he said he would "help" him deal with it. After 2 weeks the guy said he "just wasn't trying hard enough" and dropped him. Which was a blessing in disguise as far as Im concerned. My heart goes out to him and I really want to help him understand that this isn't a choice. I was raised Catholic so I don't have much knowledge about southern Baptists. I searched on line yesterday and what I found was rather disturbing. I expected them to be against homosexuality but not to the extent that I found. In fact the head minister at his church is the president of the Southern Baptist Convention. Pretty much the Grand Pooba of southern Baptists.

He's well versed on the Bible (I'm not) and believes that it says being gay is wrong. He feels he just doesn't have the strength and willpower to fight it.

Does anyone know of any books or information I can read up on to try and help him deal with this. I'm not trying to convince him that he is gay, bi or straight. I just don't have the knowledge to help him understand that being gay/bi isn't a choice and that it really is ok.

Please don't turn this into an argument about religion etc. I'm not looking to debate that with anyone. I'm trying to help someone that is really struggling and is very conflicted.

Thanks guys.

Steven.

 

[altlover85]

I recommend What The Bible Really Says About Homosexuality. I own the book and found it to be pretty good. For The Bible Tells Me So is a good documentary on the subject. I have a friend who watched it and enjoyed it. I found The Bible, Christianity, and Homosexuality through a quick Amazon.com search.

You might want to read them and then talk to him about them and maybe get him to read them.

Good luck!

 

[Georgiadude]

awesome. Thank you for the suggestions. Will def. look into them.

Steven.

 

[hotatlboi]

This was me about 8 years ago.

What I generally do is point out how, even if the Bible says being gay is wrong, followers of the Bible today do not consider everything in it still relevant.

For example, it says in the new testament that women are not allowed to speak in church and that if they do so instead of ask their husbands at home, it is disgraceful. Now most modern churches do not treat women with such contempt.

Also the Bible says that slavery is ok, and we've realized that was wrong.

Similarly, we've realized in modern society that homophobia/condemnation is wrong, regardless of what the Bible says, and many Christian denominations do accept gay people today (Southern Baptists definitely not being one of them however).

So in summary, even if this person still wants to believe the Bible, he certainly does not have to accept it's condemnation of gay people as relevant to today's society.

I also think it's critical that he come to realize that being gay is not a choice.

 

[KaraBulut]

Unfortunately, these evangelical churches are quite good at instilling these cafeteria beliefs in young people. It's something that is very hard to overcome as long as he remains in his church.

These churches pick and choose their scripture. They love to single out a few selective verses from Leviticus while complely ignoring the other verses in the same chapter.

The question is whether your friend is willing to educate himself and understand the truth behind most of the nonsense. There are books that explain the alternate interpretations of scripture and put it back into context for the times in which it was written.

But the key for your friend is going to be to change churches. There are other more tolerant denominations that have a more educated, informed view of these issues. And they welcome everyone.

 

[Georgiadude]

Thank you everyone for taking the time to help me and my friend.

I strongly agree with you. His church is the big player in most of this. There is no way he would change church's. I'd have better luck getting monkeys to fly out of his butt than that happening. I'm going to do some reading and gather some info so I can have an educated discussion with him. Wish I were better versed in the good book but I'm not. I don't understand how people talk about accepting and loving everyone because that is what God tells them to do and then they condemn and judge someone for something that can't be helped or changed. It's very un Christianlike. (is that even a word lol)

I struggled for years and years over this and was 40 years old when I was finally able to accept it. I look back and realize how much of my life I wasted being in denial and hiding. I don't want the same to happen to him or anyone for that matter.

Thanks again.

Steven.

 

[sixthson]

I was raised Baptist, so I know the inner turmoil and self disgust he has about his gay feelings. It is a miserable feeling to know you did not choose this and to believe God hates you for something so out of your control.

Here is my imput to you. If someone had given me books or information or counsel on how it is OK to be gay when I was going through this time in my life, I would not have believed what they wrote or said and would have rejected it immediately. I was convinced that it was sin and nothing anyone could say or do would change that. And frankly, I'm glad they couldn't because this was MY journey, not only with who I was as a young gay man, but also who I was as a Christian. I had to work it out with God myself. Unfortunately, too many gay people feel they have to reject God because they believe He rejects them. As painful as the whole process was, I wouldn't trade that part of my journey for anything.

I guess what I am saying is, personally, I don't think you should get overly involved in his coming to terms with who he is. If you could talk him into a place of self acceptance, that only means someone else (i.e. his church) could talk him back out of it. He has to walk the walk and experience all that goes with it for himself. Just be his supportive friend. I understand that you don't want him to go through what you had to experience, but he may have to. Hopefully it won't take him as long as you.

I believe the church is full of people who are battling this. Many have chosen to reject being gay for themselves. It seems like a miserable existence to me, but it is one of the life choices people make. Right or wrong, it is theirs to make.

 

[hotatlboi]

^ I disagree with this. You should help him if you can.

Everyone is different. I didn't accept myself until about 21 but probably would have been able to sooner if someone had given me this kind of information. The only reason I didn't was because ALL I heard was how being gay was disgusting and a sin and other such nonsense.

Yes he may choose to reject the advice and that is his choice, but having that kind of advice available to me would have been a great help to me when I was younger.

 

[sexybiboi1]

Tell him to visit this site: otkenyer.hu/halsall/lgbh-progay1.html The truth is that the bible also condems stuff such as eating shellfish and wearing more than a single cloth on the body in some of it's verses. There's more PRO homosexual quotes in the Bible, than there is against. Some churches want you to think differently, because of their own predjudices. Even in the ones supposedly against homosexuals, it's unclear what it actually means. This is shown here: news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/3205727.stm It is a common misconception that the Bible is totally against homosexuality. It's not really clear what it says. It's just how you interpret it, at one point paul says that homosexuals go to hell. Apart from it not being clear if he meant a male prostitute, it can't possibly be a sin because a sin is something which you conciously choose to do, but you don't choose to be gay so it can't be a sin. Sexuality obviously cannot be changed, so aswell as giving him those links for his religious problems, you should tell him it's nothing to be ashamed of and if he tries to hide who he is then he will just be unhappy. This helped me anyway, when I was insecure about it. The Bible doesn't actually mention it that much either, and yet religious belivers often condem it more than they would some of the commandments. There are many christian denominations which accept homosexuality.

 

[Georgiadude]

I recommend What The Bible Really Says About Homosexuality. I own the book and found it to be pretty good. For The Bible Tells Me So is a good documentary on the subject. I have a friend who watched it and enjoyed it. I found The Bible, Christianity, and Homosexuality through a quick Amazon.com search.

You might want to read them and then talk to him about them and maybe get him to read them.

Good luck!

I just watched the documentary on youTube and it was really good. It made me very sad at the same time. I know it shouldn't bother me but when I hear people say such mean, hurtful things it breaks my heart. I ordered the first book off of Amazon. I read a brief review and it does sound really good.

I'm not trying to make up his mind for him or push him away from his church. I just want to give him some information and let him see that being gay isn't a choice and that there are different understandings of what the Bible really says. So far he's only heard 1 interpretation and that's all he knows. I know I'm fighting an uphill battle so to speak. I know he need to figure this out himself. I'm just trying to make it a little easier I guess.

Thanks again everyone for the advice. It has helped a great deal.

Steven.

 

[slnattak]

It does depend on your area and where you grew up.

I grew up in a place where heterosexuality clearly was favored and respected much, much more than homosexuality. In other areas, gays are treated equally and in some places, it's even treated *better* than heterosexuality. Although I wasn't 'gay bashed' it still would be unthinkable to be open and 'out' where I grew up in. I just can't imagine anybody doing that, to be honest. It would be brave but it also would be kind of stupid, and it would draw a lot of attention to yourself.

I think the only way to help some guys is to introduce them in an area where homosexuality is better treated. I think in some cases it's the only way to help improve their self-esteem.

 

[Georgiadude]

We talked a little bit last night and I told him I had posted here looking for some advice. He seemed pretty interested in what everyone had to say. I told him I had ordered the book and was waiting for it to be delivered. (I hate ordering off of the net. When I want to buy something I want it right now. I called several book stores and they didn't have it in stock.) I'm planning on reading it first and then giving it to him. Last night he said "I wish you knew how hard this was for me." I told him I had been there and that I struggled with it for years too. I said he is not alone, that many guys have had this same struggle and that he needs more information to help him"deal" with this. He agreed and we left it at that.

Will def. keep you guys updated on where we are with this. I appreciate all of the advice and want you to know that it is helping.

Steven.

 

[hotb0d]

I can't really help with the whole Southern Bapitist thing other than to tell him to find a better religion. Buddhism? Taoism? Confucius?

I don't know how old your friend is but I am assuming no amount of books or videos will really help. The only way for him to see the light is when he wants to see the light. I guess the only thing you can do is to show him a glimpse by being supportive. And get ready to answer all his questions when he mentions stuff from the bible?

 

[conrad]

Sad, but some folks simply are dealing with a God much too small for the issues of our day.

My God is no killjoy in the area of sex. That is something, bringing my God-given brain to work with, which I discovered many years ago.

My brain told me that the "persistent (animal) urges" that I was feeling as a teen were there for a reason. I accepted the logic that without those urges the human species would die out. And, I recall the joy I experienced when, as my Creator made possible and likely, I joined my hand to my aroused cock and discovered the sheer pleasure of masturbation. AND, I REJECTED THE STUFF THE BOY SCOUTS OF AMERICA WERE TEACHING ABOUT THE ALLEGED DANGERS OF THE PRACTICE. (Fortunately, even the BSOA have stopped that nonsense. )

I was always impressed by the simplicity of the demands as stated by Jesus of Nazareth: "Love your God with heart, soul, strength, and mind and love all others as you love yourself.

As a teen I found it easy to love the new guy in town and I found myself getting an erection when we wrestled. He noticed and I explained he did that to me; I noted that he was also erect and he admitted that I did that to him. A few days later two fifteen year old boys inducted each other into the ranks of the world's cocksuckers . That sex was a confirmation of the love we already shared. No one was hurt but the bond between us was made stronger. A couple of days earlier we would have been repulsed at the idea of sucking cock, but we were discovering that love is a power that leads us on.

Yes, there are still sexual acts that have no appeal for me. While my urges remain I thank God that I ;have the restraints which my mind and conscience dictate plus the restraints of the society in which I live. No other person's body is ever mine to use for my own pleasure. Sex in my mind is the "sweet communion of two persons, body and soul.

When two are bonded in love they are likely to seek each other's good rather than their own. It is a win-win arrangement.

I deplore the ways in which the Church, in just about all of it's manifestations has perverted the clear intent of the Creator in making of sex a burden (and a means of control) rather than the great boon that it can be.

"For the mind of the Eternal, is most wonderfully kind

 

[conrad]

Most Christians would agree that in creating human beings as male and female the Creator was setting up the means for the presevation of the species.

When as a youth I began to feel horny, I was not being sinful. No, I was just using my mind to begin to understand that I am a sexual being. And when I learned to masturbate I was continuing my education; I like to think that God was pleased to see that I was using both the animal urges and my mind to catch a glimpse of the beauty and wonder of human sexuality.

And, when my teen lover and I discovered the further joy of "putting our things together" I can imagine my God smiled--as I say over and over: MY GOD IS NO KILLJOY WHEN IT COMES TO MATTERS OF SEX.

As a Christian, I believe you should view your sexuality as your Creator's gift to you intended for your use and enjoyment and sometimes for the important matter of continuing our species.

I think every Christian ought to develop a healthy suspicion of all those who make of human sexuality something dirty and something to be avoided.

Put your mind to aking yourself the ways in which your sexuality can be mis-used. There are many; generally any coercion, domination, pain, etc. ought to be questioned. Also, irresponsible acts which result in unplanned pregnancies when one is not in a position to discharge the obligations of parenthood are, IMHO, to be avoided.

But, whan you view sexual acts as the confirmation of the love of two persons you will make different decisions and hold different views fkrom tthose persons who view sex merely as a pleasant form of recreation and a way of getting off.

There is a great difference between sexual communion in a loving relationship and casual sex.

The above are just a few of the considerations. You will spend your life in trying to lay hold of all the beauty and wonder of human sexuality and you will certainly be forever mindful of and in awe of the sheer mystery of relationship once you have known the joys of that sweet communion.














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[slnattak]

I think when guys hate their gayness, they don't realize how cute they're being. It makes them attractive. Also what is very endearing: A guy that doesn't think his 'gay qualities' are attractive when they really are. The hottest people are those that don't know they're hot.

and lol I've had a lot of other gay men say that to me. The pity party pie of 'Oooh Sam you don't know what it's like for me! Woe is me.' It's simply victim playing.

 

[TX-Beau]

I also grew up Southern Baptist. I was not religious, and wasn't "active," in church stuff, and yet they still managed to plant the self hatred anyway.

I agree that he isn't going to listen to you about god until he's already quesioning. But that doesn't mean you can't be a counter-example.

I wouldn't get into biblical arguments, chances are he's pretty well prepared for anything anyone has to say about that. You need to demonstrate the fallacy in the underlying premise. If you can pull that off, he'll question the Baptists all on his own.

 

[Georgiadude]

The Bible should be ignored as anything besides literature. Who cares what Bible says? As long as he's indoctrinated by that book, his life will be awful and limited, gay or not.

I said I didn't want to turn this into a debate about the Bible. Your reply is simply a TROLL lurking in the weeds. Please take your opinion some place where it's wanted. It certainly is not wanted by me.

Steven.

 

[hotatlboi]

The hottest people are those that don't know they're hot.

I can see this in terms of their physical attributes.

However...

I think when guys hate their gayness, they don't realize how cute they're being. It makes them attractive.

Maybe it's just me but I don't find self loathing all that attractive.