Uh, everything... meeting guys in everyday life, friendships with straight guys...etc

[blogthissucker]

This is a bit long, but just so that everyone knows what they're getting into, I've divided it into sections...

1) Meeting guys (to date) in everyday life - is it possible?
2) Meeting guys to date in everyday life - how to go about it
3) Maintaining platonic relaionships with straight guys
4) Telling a platonic friend that you still wouldn't say no to seeing him naked - good idea?

SO.

1) A lot of people in this forum ask for advice on how to meet guys, and the answer is usually (1) come out, then (2) go to gay bars/clubs/social groups. I'm wondering whether it's possible to meet guys randomly in normal life (assuming you're out).

The thing is that I tend to fall for guys in everyday life. I'll meet a new guy who seems pretty cool, and after I've talked to him a few times and realized I really get along with him, there's basically nothing I can do about it. I'm sure everyone does this, so that's not new, but the point I'm trying to make is... based on my experience, I feel like attraction is the kind of thing that is going to find you. I've emailed back and forth with guys on personals sites, but it's always seemed forced - the fact that we're both on a website with the intention of finding someone to date means that we're going to try and build a relationship where there is no real attraction. Which is dumb.

I realize that websites are different, because you end up seeing all the other guy's statistics before you even learn whether he can carry on a normal conversation. But I feel like, either way, going to a bar/social group specifically to meet guys is going to result in the same thing. You'll end up dating someone who you don't really know and don't find that attractive, just based on a somewhat positive first impression. And you might go out and find that there's a bit of something there, and that you can build a relationship for a few weeks/months, but it's not going to go anywhere super-awesome. Do I have a messed-up idea of how dating is supposed to be? I can only think of a few guys I know who I'd want to date, and I'd choose them because I find them fun to talk to, I know that we see eye-to-eye on most important/controversial subjects, I find them physically attractive, and therefore I think that they would be the kind of person I'd have a long and meaningful relationship with (...if they were gay). If you think about straight guys, they would tend to DATE people they know a bit and HOOK UP with people at bars/clubs. Has gay culture made it reasonable to expect that you can meet someone at a bar and start a relationship, or is gay culture all about hooking up?

2) To those of you who think it's possible to start something based on an attractive new aquiantance in everyday life... how do you even start that? I'm not out to very many people and I'm relatively "str8 acting". So if I meet someone new, I'd presumably have to bring up the fact that I'm gay pretty early on, and leave the ball in their court. Is that about right? I'm kind of uncomfortable having to throw that out there before I even know someone - like I said, I've only told a few people. This is one of the things that bugs me most about being gay - straight guys can just assume that every girl plays for their team. None of this looking for the small percentage of the world's population who might be interested in you.

3) As a semi-related thing... how do you guys maintain a good friendship with a straight guy? Going back to how I was talking about finding someone new attractive... the things that would make me consider someone a good potential friend are the exact same things that would make me find a guy attractive. Is that normal? Judging by the number of "I want my best friend" threads, it seems to be. How am I supposed to sort that out? I can't make myself not find someone attractive just beceause they're straight. I can't avoid friendships with people I get along really well with just because they're straight and I might develop unrequitted feelings for them. What am I supposed to do? To any guy who is good friends with a straight guy: can you honestly say that you wouldn't want to see him naked if he wouldn't know you'd seen? Once again, being gay is frustrating because you get to meet all these guys who you find really attractive but don't like guys.

4) What do you do if a straight guy asks how you feel about him? For me, even if it's a completely platonic friendship, the honest answer is usually that I wouldn't say no to seeing him naked. The thing is... this is such a GUY thing! It is SO NORMAL for a guy to be attracted to every member of his gender(s) of interest, even if only a little bit. Telling a straight guy the truth would be a big thing to bond over - showing that gay guys aren't really so different from straight guys when it comes down to it. But at the same time, it would probably make a straight guy feel a bit violated, or objectified... particularly if he were the kind of guy who likes to work out in the living room or spend most of the day in his boxers. And it would suck if that made things awkward. If it got awkward enough, he might stop doing it, which would be annoying for him because he has to rework his daily routine and annoying for you because you don't get to watch. Is there anyone here who has admitted to a straight guy that there are very few guys who you would say no to seeing naked?

 

[blogthissucker]

I missed the timer for editing... but obviously no need to reply to everything. I threw it all together because they seem kind of related, but I'm interested in what people have to say on each of these topics.

 

[saymyname]

Your issues all seem linked to someone just starting to come out, young, and just finding their voice.

They are all interlinked, trust me.

The thing is you think your being gay is still this "issue" to "handle" in various fashions in various situations. Once you have fully become out, and being gay is simply who you are, and it's in all parts of your life, but is 2nd nature to you to mention things that are gay, as if you are talking about the weather.

I've been out so long now, I can't remember the last time I even gave a thought towards, "am I acting str8 or acting gay". I don't even know what those things are anymore really. I am who I am, who I am. The more you come out the easier it gets, trust me.

Agreed. Reading this hurt my brain.

Your first point - do you have a messed up view on how dating is supposed to be? Um, to be frank, YES. What the fuck do you think everyone else does (straight people)? They meet people in cafes. Bars. Outside. Online. It seems like you have some kind of bias against "looking" for people, but that's what it's all based around. There's nothing wrong with being on a dating website and knowing that everyone else, including yourself, is possibly looking for a relationship... that's normal. You just talk to people and see if you click with them. You judge people who meet in bars and maybe have a relationship for a "few months" but from the sounds of it you've never had a relationship, ever. And then you worry about, oh my god, I'm going to have to tell this cool person I'm gay right away. Why don't you just get comfortable with yourself? It's true that after long enough, being gay is not an 'issue' in terms of bringing 'things' up that are gay. And stop worrying about how you act, fuck. I really can't stand it when people who are hardly out make all sorts of judgments about the gay community before they even experience it. YES, GAY PEOPLE MEET EACH OTHER AT GROCERY STORES TOO. Now go to take a deep breath. You need it.

 

[blogthissucker]

The first two replies seem to be picking at the fact that I described myself as "str8 acting". I just mentioned that for reference!! I'm not asking "how can I act str8"... I'm asking how I can be a gay guy who still has healthy friendships with straight guys. Most of the guys I've been good friends with are straight guys who I ended up falling for. It's not a coincidence; it's because I look for the same qualities in friends as I do in boyfriends. It's going to keep happening any time I meet a straight guy I get along with and I'm wondering how to stop it.

saymyname, I'm not saying that every couple that meets at a bar is going to have a meaningless relationship. I'm just saying that most of the people I've fallen for in the past have been people I've known, and that compared to dating one of the guys I've fallen for, dating a relative stranger seems a lot less appealing.

 

[Fishstix]

Agreed. Reading this hurt my brain.

Your first point - do you have a messed up view on how dating is supposed to be? Um, to be frank, YES. What the fuck do you think everyone else does (straight people)? They meet people in cafes. Bars. Outside. Online. It seems like you have some kind of bias against "looking" for people, but that's what it's all based around. There's nothing wrong with being on a dating website and knowing that everyone else, including yourself, is possibly looking for a relationship... that's normal. You just talk to people and see if you click with them. You judge people who meet in bars and maybe have a relationship for a "few months" but from the sounds of it you've never had a relationship, ever. And then you worry about, oh my god, I'm going to have to tell this cool person I'm gay right away. Why don't you just get comfortable with yourself? It's true that after long enough, being gay is not an 'issue' in terms of bringing 'things' up that are gay. And stop worrying about how you act, fuck. I really can't stand it when people who are hardly out make all sorts of judgments about the gay community before they even experience it. YES, GAY PEOPLE MEET EACH OTHER AT GROCERY STORES TOO. Now go to take a deep breath. You need it.

A little harsh. I don't think he was trying to judge anyone or anything like that. By your post, you're doing the same thing as you're accusing him of except you're doing it to closeted gay people when all gay people go through that. Not everyone's going to have all that experience you have, that's why they're here asking for help. Your post looked 10 times more rude than his did. You probably don't care but just letting you know.

 

[slickery]

Maybe I live in a fantasy world where everyone is gay but...

1 and 2, there are so many gay people where I live it's almost impossible not to meet people going about your everyday life, so yes it is possible. I guess I'm just so used to it and being gay where I live is almost a requirement so yeah! It's never really been an issue.

3 I have straight friends, and they are good friends. Friends are friends, if someone doesn't want to be friends with you because you're gay then fuck them, if you don't want to be friends with someone for whatever reason then don't.

4 Can't say I've ever had a straight friend ask if I had a crush on him, never been an issue.

 

[kissthesky88]

i'm in exactly the same boat as you. about 3/4 of all my friends would fall into the "male platonic heterosexual friendship" category. all my friends are guys... so much in fact that every friend that's a girl i have i'm only friends with because they dated/are dating one of my guy friends. i'm a little different than the lot of us who seem to almost purposefully attach themselves emotionally to particular friends of ours however, because I have never fallen in love with any of my friends. we all have specific types.. you know? i personally like them tall and dark (Caucasian-dark, like italians, greeks, jews, turks, lebanese, not really into blondes, asians nor black guys), but I live in LA, so i was fortunate enough to have grown up, befriended, and formed a social circle of guy friends that either: A) are not my type, B) are like family to me and i just couldn't ever hook up with or c) both.
The very best way to stay friends with straight guys is basically to be friends with them... and not have the issue that you're gay be an issue. You're going to be their "gay friend" either way, but if they truly value your friendship, your camaraderie and the company that they get from you, your sexuality will soon become just another secondary attribute.
for example: one of my very closest friends fell from a roof onto a cobblestone pool patio at a party when i was 17. i was sitting in a chair near from where he fell. he became paralyzed from the waist down, he's now confined to a life in a wheelchair as a paraplegic... for the first year, it was difficult to be near him. he couldn't come over to my house because there are steps to enter from the front, side, back and garage doors, it made me feel vulnerable in a time when i felt invincible, etc, etc. but after awhile, i missed him, because i love him (platonically). so very few people in this world come and don't go, you know? so now, 4 years later, even though he may always be "my handicapped friend", he's so much more than that. he's peter, my awesome, funny, caring, wonderful friend who i love like a brother. i could care less that he's disabled now. i don't mind pushing him around, or sitting in the front at movies, or always having to use the elevator instead of the escalator. those are minuscule to the feelings of acceptance, connectedness, comfort and validation that he makes me feel.
i know thats probably a bad analogy but it's the only one i can think of. anyways, good luck.

 

[blogthissucker]

Thanks for the replies everyone. I think (2) was probably a bad thing to add, because it gives the impression that I'm afraid that telling straight guys will be awkward. Right now, that's probably true, but I have faith that it's mostly in my head and when I'm more comfortable with myself it won't really be an issue to tell someone new. People are pretty accepting. I guess I put that in there because I wanted reassurance that it wouldn't be hard later on, which is kind of silly of me because everything else I wrote was actually about generating thoughtful discussion. Anyway, I have faith that (2) won't be an issue forever.

Also, regarding (4), I'm not saying that I have crushes on all my straight friends and I want a clever way to lie about it. I'm saying that, even though we're friends, given the chance I would probably want to see them naked. I feel like that's something that is relatively normal (I'm pretty sure most straight guys would be interested in seeing platonic female friends naked) and therefore it might make sense to be up-front about it if it ever came up in conversation.

Anyone watch How I met your Mother? The Hot-Crazy Scale? (description starts at 0:24) : [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3zdGBL0PhJE[/ame]For me there's more of a Hot-Closeness scale. Replace "crazy" with "how well do I know this guy" and everyone above the line, I want to see naked. If I know a guy a bit and he's hot, I want to see him naked. If I know him better than he is hot, no interest. Most of my best friends fall into that second category, but some aren't as close to me and/or are really hot... so they're the ones I'm thinking about with (4).

 

[spencer]

Here's the thing. Even if want to see any of your friends naked, don't talk about it. The more emphasis you put on it the more weird it will be the more self concious the other party will be (he'll cover up in situations where he's changing)

It's weird how some people make it sound like you should give up on hanging out with heteros. My best friend from college and his wife know i'm gay, I hang out with him and his friend, I play with his kids. If he had any other gay friends (he is friends with an older gay couple) he could introduce me to them.

The best thing is to just be out there. Make straight friends make gay friends. Since you're out to them, they'll accept you (otherwise they won't be your friends). As you realize that the gay ones are more available than the straight ones you'll learn that flirting works better with them and you'll associate your sexual feelings with them. (but yeah, you'll still be attracted to all the hot frat guys you see)

 

[megustamyn]

I believe the solution is being out. I don’t mean making an announcement. You have to start exploring places where you are likely to meet gay men. Gyms, BTW, are a natural. Do a web search for gay friendly places nearby; maybe within reasonable commuting distance if you’re not quite ready to let your current friends know.

As Ghost said, you find yourself attracted to straight men those are the only guys you know. It’s possible that one or two of them are in the position as you are but you’ll never know if everyone is afraid to say who he is.

Everyone, gay or straight, male or female, is at some point in their lives attracted to people they can’t have. But if you also have people who you know are available, it’s not a big problem. You learn to approach people who are approachable.

Oh, and it is never appropriate to tell someone you want to see him naked unless you have an intimate relationship or in an otherwise sexual situation. That is called sexual harassment.